It seems to me that if the posted time of closing is 8:30 and I arrive at 8:15 (or 8:25) to find a locked door, that's dirty pool.

If they want to be out by 8:30 (or 9), then post closing time as 8:00, or whatever time they choose.

If I were feeling mischievous (as is true quite a bit of the time), and saw lights on and people inside, I'd probably hammer on the door. Especially if I had invited a group to share a celebration.

That said, I think it only fair of people who arrive near closing time not to dawdle over their food - fair's fair.

If the bank says that they close at 5 and I arrive at 2 minutes till to find a locked door, I'd be ticked of.

Actually, I arrived at the library close to 5:00 p.m. closing the other night, stopped to scrape the snow off of the librarian's car, then walked over to the door ...

... to find it locked. At three minutes to five - and I wanted one specific book "Driver's Handbook". Travelled about four miles to get it from another branch ... and found that they had one at Lambeth. Darn!

Check my watch every few days with the signal over the radio from the National ObservAtory.

ole joyful

No matter what, they should NOT have locked their doors 15 minutes before closing. That is bad business.

Doors should be locked when it's closing time. Period.

Actually we never even gave it a thought that they would not be open until at least nine. Had they even gone to the trouble of turning off the sign at the road, we would not have even bothered to pull in the parking lot.

Sigh.....

OJ...same thing happened to me at the bread store...open until 6. Door locked at 8 minutes till 6. Time it takes to run in and purchase a couple of loaves of bread and get out...1 minute....if the cashier doesn't dawdle.

Lindsey posted my thoughts exactly regarding it's a buffet and manipulating closing times would accomplish nothing.

knowing somewhat where you live and you're choices not being abundant...I'da been ticked off too...arriving late...I'm sure you weren't expecting the place to be ablaze and kicking but closing early just cost them some valuable dollars!

One time we were in super shoe.It said closes at 9.At 845 the lights went out that was the last time I shopped at super shoe.

I simply cannot imagine going to a restaurant 15 minutes before closing time--for a party-type celebration, no less--and expecting to be seated and fed.

Maybe I'm wrong--but I've always considered a restaurant closing time to be the time they truly closed. Meaning if I want to eat there, I should plan to be there at least an hour ahead of that time--so I have time to sit down, peruse the menu, order, be served, eat and be done by the posted time. In actuality? I wouldn't have gone to a restaurant at 8:15, if I thought they closed at 9:00.

I can tell you this--when I worked in retail (just a linen store) we ALWAYS closed the front door 10 minutes before closing time. And it takes much less time to wait on a person buying a set of sheets than it does to wait in a waiter in a restaurant.

Normally, I'm a big proponent of complaining when one is not treated fairly in the marketplace--but in this case, sorry--but I think you own the district manager an apology for complaining at all.

I agree with azzalea.

I know the library I go to starts announcing 15 minutes before closing time and every 5 minutes after that.

If DH and I know a restaurant closes at 10pm, we get there a bit before 9pm so that we're not rushed and the staff remain happy (they are handling our food, you know)! ;-)

I agree with Azzalea( and most every one else). A buffet closing 15 ninutes early is not that big of a deal, and common a lot of places.
When I worked in food service (in the dark ages), the general rule was X number of customers or we would close within the last 30 minutes. Any walk in of a group 15 minutes before closing we would have nicely told them we were unable to accomodate them.

I agree with most every else also. Even if there isn't a large selection of restaurants in your area as lizga says, you should have checked with the restaurant first.
If when you say a birthday celebration and dinner as two different events, then with a limited selection, certainly eat dinner first.

chem, I can understand the frustration at the door being locked but your suffering was due to lack of planning on the groups part.

I guess I never thought about it before, and I never worked in the restaurant business, but if their closing time was 8:30, I would have assumed that means when you could last place an order (or walk in), not when they literally kicked you out the door. I would think they would start cleaning the buffet at around 9:00 or so. And, I would think a waitress would be expected to have to work an hour or so past closing - it's not that she's working 'late'; those would just be her hours. I can't really see both customers and waitresses heading out the door at the same exact 8:30 closing time anyway.

And, I'm guessing that maybe higher end restaurants may let you to come in later and use the closing time as kitchen's last order, not when customer's have to leave. So, maybe it has something to do with the type of restaurant it is, and/or how much the staff is getting paid. If they are truly professionals, I would think they would want/take the extra business even if they had to stay a little later.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer about posted closing times; I think each restaurant and owner/manager can probably decide for themselves how they define closing time for each particular day. Here's a bunch more opinions on the matter. In chemocurl's case, I would be a little mad too because the light was still on so, to me, that 'should' mean customers are still welcomed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chowhound

I agree with Azzalea, we do the same with restaurant times. If the place closes at 8 then that is the time it closes, I figure that I want to be there by 7. And I too think that an apology is owed to the manager.

I understand what you are saying chemocurl, I too have had to stay late because a client needed assistance or there was a last minute customer. But I am sure what you were compensated, especially in OT, was far beyond what the wait staff will usually see from a late customer in the way of tips. I don't know how long it takes to break down that buffet but I would guess that it is at least a 30 minute job.

At the jewelry store we pull one gate down 15 minutes before closing so that we can pull the window displays with a bit more security.

This reminds me of the stink Oprah Winfrey put up when she was turned away by a store in Paris a few years ago. I wanted to be sure of my facts so I looked it up on CNN.

In that instance the store (Hermes) closed at 6:30 and she and her party arrived at 6:45. Maybe there is validity in someone being upset if they are turned away during normal working hours but in this case, she was way off base. As mentioned by another poster, those store workers wanted to get home to be weith their families. She should have put herself in their shoes.

I have worked in the food business before as a waitress , as a cook, and a manager. Every place I worked kept the doors open until closing. As it should be. Yes, we were often disappointed when someone came in right before closing, but we pasted on smiles and served them nonetheless. People who work in the restaurant business just know that that is how it is sometimes. If the post office says it is open until 5...then it darn well better be open until 5..and clean up comes after that.
As an owner trying to make ends meet in a business, you WANT every customer you can possibly get. I would have let you in, but told you that there wouldnt be any more food added to the buffet, what you see is what you get. Then the customer could have made the choice.

And just FYI, the food on a buffet is probably not something you want to pay for at closing time. It is what is getting ready to be thrown away...the leftovers per se.
Its been on the buffet for quite some time and not quality food in most cases.

LOL...I definitely dont think you owe the manager an apology for complaining.

Just my thoughts.
Marla

Another one who agrees with Azzalea. I worked in retailing for many years and it would never fail...there would always be one person who came through the doors 2 minutes before closing time and stayed up to an hour after closing time. One woman even commented to us, "Oh, I know you're closing in about 5 minutes, but I find it's the best time to shop. There's no one else here and I have the place and the sales help all to myself."
Sorry, but anyone who thinks that type of behavior is okay is damn nervy.

Hmmmm. Our favorite restaurant closed at say 9:00, at 8:00 someone was at the door to let people in explaining that they would close in 1 hour. So they were put on "notice", so when the lights dim...that's the hint...your tickets on the table pay up so we can close the register.

Gayle

Out of curiosity, I called another local Ponderosa (in a small town also) and asked when they closed on a Tues night. They said they closed at 8:30. I then asked what time the door was locked, and just how late they allowed customers to come in.
Their reply was that customers were welcome to come in right up until 8:30 when the door was locked. Those customers who arrived between 8:00 and 8:30 were informed that the buffet would start to be torn down at 9:00. It was then the customers decision if they had a comfortable amount of time to dine.
That sure makes good business sense to me, both customers and employees happy and knowing just what to expect.

Since the subject of libraries has come up here a couple of times, I'll stick in my 2 cents worth: The library where I work is on "bar time". Our official clock is set ten minutes fast. That makes us close ten minutes early, which helps us send last-minute patrons out the door 'on time'. We don't get paid overtime, and aren't allowed to "volunteer" time. Sometimes we stay after anyhow, if there's a critical matter involved, but we don't allow patrons in after the official closing time, which is really 5:50. Locals know we are open 10 minutes before we have to be, and are often at the door, waiting.
-Jann

During my pizza delivering career we not only served walk in's right until closing time, but also took phone calls for deliveries. We has an argument settler - one of those wall clocks with a picture of a different bird on each hour. At midnight once the owl hooted, no more deliveries would be accepted. Still some would call and ring & ring until we finally answered, and would say 'MY clock says 11:58!!!'

I actually got pretty good at imitating the owl, and was successful in fooling the inside staff, usually at 11:55 pm when it would be raining outside!

I was a server for 17 years. Yeah, I would be upset if a birthday celebration party showed up 15 minutes before closing and kept me an hour, or more, after I was supposed to get off. Servers here make 2.01 an hour plus tips. Your tips are added to your hourly wage and taxes are deducted from your check. We used to claim our own tips. I think the restaurants now do it for you. Based on a percentage of your sales. I, personally, have received many a paycheck for ZERO dollars.
And it's a pretty safe bet that someone that inconsiderate isn't going to be a big tipper. Especially at a buffet.
And you are not only holding the server up, but the manager, or whoever has to count the til and lock up, but the kitchen staff that has to come out and tear down the buffet when you are done and do all the dishes and have the kitchen clean before they can go home.
Can you tell this is a sore subject with me? LOL
Even at the law office, people pop in without an appointment right as I'm locking up the office. Come back in, turn lights, computer and, maybe, printer and copier back on, go over whatever they need with them and then close up all over again. Not a big deal once in a while, but it happens often, and usually the same client(s).

My daughter works as a part time bartender on her University campus. She says that they are not allowed to close the doors until 2:00 a.m., as part of the fire safety rules to keep doors unlocked until all patrons have left. But the sign on the door says 'Last Call is 1:30, doors close at 2:00' which lets customers know that they won't be asked to leave until 2:00, but they can't order any more drinks after 1:30. This informs people who come to the door after 1:30 that they won't be served, but they can still walk in to meet or pick someone up until the doors close at 2:00. Perhaps restaurants should use the same method and post 'Doors close at 9:00, last meals served at 8:15.'

The manager called me again today, and we discussed what happened. She told me the same thing as the local one I had talked to earlier today.
Doors are to be kept open until 8:30..
Customers arriving between 8 and 8:30 are informed that the buffet will start to be torn down at 9:00.
She said she would investigate the matter as there are several 'younger' employees who have to be watched so such things as this don't happen.
She said the employees punch a time clock and are paid for every minute they work.
She apologized over and over for what her employees had done, and will alert closing managers to be more watchful of things such as this. Realizing her restaurant lost 6 paying customers that night, she thanked me for bringing the problem to her attention. She wanted to send me some tickets for complimentary dinners. I accepted and thanked her.
There was a problem, it was reported, it has been addressed, and hopefully her shift manager will keep a better eye on any problem employees trying to get away with things.
All is well.

So the hours on the door say they close at 8:30 and she says they begin to tear down the buffet and start cleaning at 9:00? That means they probably wouldn't get out of there until close to 10:00 at the earliest if they did things properly.

Azzalea,

I've worked in several retail stores and we've NEVER closed our doors before closing, no matter what. I stand by what I said before - if you post a closing time, you should NOT lock the doors before that time. Do I like people who come in close to closing? Heck no. I'd like to get out of there on time. But to lock the doors before the actual closing time is WRONG. My manager makes sure we are scheduled an hour after closing. If they want to get out of there early, they need to change their closing time.

Sheryl

I guess I still don't get it. They close at 8:30. Was your party of 6 planning on eating in 15 minutes? Or didn't it matter? Would you have been miffed at 8:25? Close to me means everyone out at that time or pretty near. Grocery store closes at 8. Ya don't walk in at 7:55 and shop for 2 hours. I would never think of going to a restaurant 15 minutes before closing. It's crass.
I give the manager kudos for handling the situation the way she did.

So the hours on the door say they close at 8:30 and she says they begin to tear down the buffet and start cleaning at 9:00?
Exactly. I'd guess they would be cleaning all along in the kitchen and all that would be left at 9 would be the tearing down of the buffet and all that that involves as far as clean-up.

That means they probably wouldn't get out of there until close to 10:00 at the earliest if they did things properly.
Exactly. They are likely scheduled until 10, allowing enough time to clean up properly. If they get finished b4 that time, they would be clocking out b4 10 and would likely end up with a 'short' paycheck.

I guess I still don't get it. They close at 8:30. Was your party of 6 planning on eating in 15 minutes?
I don't know what it is that you don't understand. Did you read my post of the conversation with the manager 4 posts above? As the manager stated, customers were admitted up until 8:30 and those arriving between 8 and 8:30 were told that the buffet would start to be torn down at 9.

Grocery store closes at 8. Ya don't walk in at 7:55 and shop for 2 hours.
I agree and I doubt if there is a grocery store on earth that would allow such a thing happening. Close to me, with a grocery, means being out of the store at closing time, or near that depending upon the last minute shoppers in the check out line.

I would never think of going to a restaurant 15 minutes before closing. It's crass.
I'm confused as to what you think is crass, as you say.
Evidently the Ponderosa does not think it's crass, since they have set hours for admitting customers and for customers being allowed to dine. Take the buffet food down/away, quit serving drinks, and customers will likely leave soon after that.

I give the manager kudos for handling the situation the way she did.
I do too. Did you read what I wrote above about her explanation and apology? Once she was informed of the situation, she will be taking steps to keep a good watch on any employees who are trying to get out of work by locking paying customers out b4 the stated closing time.

I'm sure the meaning of closing time for restaurant varies greatly for a lot of reasons. I doubt if McDonalds turns customers away 5,10,15 minutes b4 closing time, yet they still have to clean things up, and count the 'drawers'.

Just as employees are scheduled to come in an hour before opening, there are employees who are scheduled to work past closing.

Who would have ever dreamed that this simple question would have been better suited for the Hot Topics Forum? I evidently did not.

Most restaurants I have used close when the sign says it closes, i.e., 8:30. I too used to work in the food service industry and found it to be a pain in the behind, but that was the way management said it was to be done.

Managers appreciate knowing about situations such as yours. I had problem with a Macroni Grill giving out incorrect advice about reservations. It caused us to rush through dinner and one of our party had to miss dinner to pick up the tickets. I sent a note to the email address I was given and was VERY surprised when I received a phone call from the headquarters. The representative was so glad that I had taken the time and trouble to let them know about what had transpired. She said that "all too often people have an unpleasant experience, but say nothing and then give a bad review of the restaurant". She went on to say that without knowing about problem incidents, there is no way they know how to fix a problem. She said she hoped that more people would do what I did so that they can take action when incidents occur.

She then said they were going to send us coupons for a future use. I told her we really didn't need the coupons, but she refused to take no for an answer.

chem, As lindakathy said, I still don't get it. I did sympathize with you that the event didn't end happily, but you don't seem willing to understand that the poor planning on your group's part created the situation. You don't seem willing to understand your role in this. Two sides handled the situation poorly.

I hope the people in your group can plan the next birthday celebration better.....and plan to eat dinner before 8pm.

but you don't seem willing to understand that the poor planning on your group's part created the situation. You don't seem willing to understand your role in this.
My part in the situation was bringing to the attention of the manager just when the doors were locked to paying customers. She thanked me for that. The employees were wrong she said to lock paying customers out b4 the designated time to lock the doors. When paying customers are lost (locked out), revenue is lost. Without revenue, the employee cannot be paid and the restaurant cannot survive. That buffet was not scheduled to be torn down until 9. How simple is that?
Their policy:
Lock the doors at 8:30(closing time)
Their policy for employees:
Start tearing down the buffet at 9 even if there are customers lingering, as they have been informed of the buffet closing.

Chemcurl, the point is that you thought it closed at 8:30 and showed up just 15 minutes before closing. I doubt you were planning to get your food, eat and be out of there in 15 minutes.

I used to work as a busgirl in my teens, it was in a casino, so they never closed. But, there was always a group of older women who came in to play Keno. If the good table was full at the time they came in they would move over and over again as people left in order to get a better table. Guess who got to clean their tables over and over? I always thought it was rude.

I also worked at a Target in Arizona when I was pregnant with Alex. I had to make the overhead announcements at the end of the night. There were always people staying till well after closing, the manager would call me three or four times sometimes to reannouce that the store was CLOSED!! After closing the work only just would begin and we'd have to all go down and restock all the crap that people stuffed in the opposite ends of the store or threw down in the floor. I think they closed at 11:00 pm and we usually didn't get out of there until after 1 am. Now, I don't throw crap in the floor, if something falls I pick it back up and put it on the rack. If I decide I don't want something afterall, I walk back to where I got it to put it back in the right place. It's just common curtesy.

Chemcurl, the point is that you thought it closed at 8:30 and showed up just 15 minutes before closing. I doubt you were planning to get your food, eat and be out of there in 15 minutes.
The point is this...customers were told and had until 9:00 b4 they started to tear down the buffet.
8:15 until 9:00 is 45 minutes...not 15 minutes.

There were several cars in the lot, and likely lots of diners. I suspect several of them had arrived at 8, 8:10, 8:14. The buffet was going to be available for them until 9:00.
Their policy:
Lock the doors at 8:30(closing time)
Their policy for employees:
Start tearing down the buffet at 9 even if there are customers lingering, as they have been informed of the buffet closing.

When I was in college, I worked at a restaurant. Although the restaurant closed at 10:00 p.m., the closing staff was scheduled to stay until 12:00. Having diners walk in 5 minutes before closing was built right into the schedule, it rarely caused anyone to stay late.

Only once did it cause a problem for the staff. A group of people came in 5 minutes before closing, ordered the salad bar, and stayed...and stayed... and stayed...and stayed long after they had finished eating. They just sat there drinking coffee and chatting for maybe 30 or 45 minutes after they finished eating. That is just flat wrong. But those customers who came in a few minutes before closing, ordered, ate and left were not a problem at all. Serving them with a smile was just part of the job we expected to perform.

My cousin owned several restaurants in the little town where I attended college and I worked in every one of them while putting myself through school.

I know for a fact that he would have fired the manager on the spot if that had happened in one of his establishments.

If the hours are until 8:30 then they will seat people until 8:30 period.

And I'll bet that those servers are scheduled accordingly. In other words, not every server comes in at the same time. Some might start at 4:00 some at 6:00. The ones that start at 4:00 are the first ones to go home. The ones that start later are the ones that stay until the end and serve the later arriving guests. That's their job.

If the buffet was open until 9:00 and they usually made the customer aware of this, then by closing early they cheated the owner out of more revenue, not to mention the bad feelings it caused to the public.

I like to go to Taco Bell and pizza joints right at closing time ... they sometimes give you about ten times as much food as you've ordered just to get rid of the left overs.

You know if a group of people were approaching my eating joint wearing party hats and carrying half full bottles of Jack Danial's. I'd run lock the door too no matter what time it was.

"My part in the situation was bringing to the attention of the manager just when the doors were locked to paying customers. She thanked me for that."

What else did you really expect her to say? That you and your party were wrong and inconsiderate? That certainly isn't what management is trained to do. Their job is to placate the customer, to calm their ruffled feathers so it doesn't go up the ladder to corporate. I doubt she really told you what she felt.

You are technically correct.
However, what some of us are trying to tell you is that going into a restaurant 15 minutes before closing is just not good form.
But then, maybe it's a regional thing.

Similar situation I had about a year ago at the grocery store that closes at 10pm
I arrived at about 9:35, grabbed a cart and started making my way through. I was only in to pick up a few items. I walked over to the dair cases near the back and the guy was shutting off all the lights.. I went over to the produce and all the grapes, bananas etc had been removed and taken to the storeroom. By 9:45 an announcement came on saying they were closing at 10pm and to please take your purchases up to the registers. I grabbed my few more items and went up front to find one register open and a huge line of people waiting.
Across at the service desk a couple of clerks and a supervisor were busying themselves counting whatever and not even looking over so I yelled over if they could please open another register. Well that supervisor came marching over telling me not to yell in the store and I told her how they're rushing us to get out of the store and then they only have one register open blah blah blah. I left my groceries and so did a few other customers and we left.
I emailed the head office that evening and about 2 days later I got a nice email from the woman who was the new store manager having been transferred in because of complaints, thanking me and apologizing for what had happened. She told me that the store is open till 10pm and accepts cutsomers until 10pm. I wasn't the first person to be complaining about things. She also asked me to continue letting her know if I encountered anymore problems. Along with that they sent me a $50 gift card for the store.

So I agree with the original poster and would be miffed as well... If the sign says they're open till such and such, they're open until the last customer leaves. I've been at jobs where it's happened to me and you just expect it to happen once in awhile and deal with it.

what some of us are trying to tell you is that going into a restaurant 15 minutes before closing is just not good form.
What I'm telling you is that we entered the restaursnt 45 minutes b4 Closing down the buffet. There is a big difference.

pkguy,
This manager also asked me to be sure and let her know of any future problems.

I'll be sure and not post anything as controversial as this here in the future. I'll be sure and take it over to Hot Topics, where I can really be flamed.

But Chemo...you asked our thoughts on the situation.
Some people agree with your thinking and others don't.
I hope you didn't expect everyone to become incensed?
Noone's flamed you....unless you call disagreeing with your take on things flaming. It's a discussion...just trying to make others see it they way we do.
This wouldn't fit in a Luke Warm Topics forum.

I don't see anyone flaming you either, some of us just disagree with you. I thought you said the restaurant was closed at 8:30, closed means closed to me. It should have had the doors open till that time but I would never go in that late unless I was getting something quick to go.

Say Goodnight Irene...I'm over it.

Calm down, Sue. I hope you don't feel I was flaming you because I sure didn't mean to. I was saying I hated last minute customers when I was in the restaurant business so I don't go late. Even though I agreed with you, I still had some sympathy for the employees. The bottom line is you are right, and no one can dispute that even if their answers weren't quite as matteroffact as the simplicity of the subject. The sign said 8:30, so the door should not be locked until 8:30. To each their own in the way they do things. I don't arrive so late and others don't either, but many people do. Really not that big a deal. But, please don't let it all rile you like this. Not everyone agrees is all.

"what some of us are trying to tell you is that going into a restaurant 15 minutes before closing is just not good form."
"What I'm telling you is that we entered the restaursnt 45 minutes b4 Closing down the buffet. There is a big difference."

But at the time you arrived at the restaurant, 15 minutes before the posted closing time, you did not know that the buffet isn't torn down until 9:00. By your own statements, you didn't know that until the following day when you called another location in the chain.

Say Goodnight Irene!

Their posted closing time is 8:30.

Doors close at 8:30. Not before.

If they want before - list closing at a different time.

ole joyful

Personally, I would have realized that I had arrived too late, as 15 minutes is too short of a time for my group to eat, whether they were closed or not, as takes time to prepare food for a group. I hope I would have been that considerate of other people. Then without another thought I would have found another place that was open and plan better for the next celebration. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. And Good Nite to you, Irene..May you sleep well.

Don't need preparation time at a buffet: one fills one's plate immediately ...

... though when one arrives near closing, one can expect some rather meagre selection plus picked-over resources, I'd assume.

ole joyful

The truth of the matter is, it is common practice in the food business...If I was hungry, I wouldn't want to eat the dregs of a buffet that closed in 15 minutes anyway... Granted I am sure it was all good food but....you know that they are not maintaining that buffet at 15 minutes before closing...

I think the manager handled it decently....she didn't dare tell you the truth...