multiple head shower---problems w/hot water

15 years ago

We bought a house that was built about 4-5 yrs ago and moved in in December...the master shower is walk-in with tall ceiling(yes I know problems with that design) but shower heads are at the back of the shower opening (it is like an L turned 180 degrees. so the area you stand is away from the entry/drafts more than most)---the controls are all at the front--so you turn it on and walk to the back...about 2-3 ft from opening

3 shower heads--one rain head from the 10 ft ceiling and two wall-mounted ones separated by a corner (not opposite walls)

two valve/controllers--each one has separate water supply because they don't have to be on at the same time

the rainhead shower and the back wall head work off the same controller-valve assembly with a lever to switch from one to the other and a pull-out rotating volume/temp valve

posting what looks like the valve control/shower head--

the other wall-mounted head has a rotating handle controller

the house was vacant for about 6-7 weeks while we had painting and some other work done...

found that one of the mixing or balance valves was frozen with sediment when we moved in and tried to take a shower so only one shower head got hot (warm) water..the guy who did the home inspection swears that all shower heads were working and had good water temps when he did the inspection--but I also has to show him how to turn on the combo heads to get water from all three at the same time...so I am not sure exactly how HOT the water was--

plumber came out and pulled the bad valve out..

I called Moen and paid 75 for the part and shipping since that was less than Moen would charge the plumber (he said)--part was on back-order--not availible until after Jan 1---when it finally got here (another long story) and plumber came to do the install--there is still not really HOT water in that master shower...

this has cost us almost 400 already with the part and having the plumber do some other things like change the flapper in the master toilet and get the handle to move easier this last trip

we were told that there is valve in shower's controllers that "balances" the water temp so that you can't accidentally scald yourself by turning it on too hot...ok I can see the need for that...

BUT the other downstairs bathroom has basically the same lever controller as the single-head in master and it gets hotter water than the master...it is also a walk-in shower and really more open to drafts/loss of heat than the master--but water was hotter when I took shower there today to compare...not so hot that I had to lessen the volumn--but definitely hotter than coming out the master's heads...

the kitchen sink that has a single-controller faucet that swivels L-R gets hotter water than the master shower heads...all the bathroom faucets that have spread handles get HOT water...I understand why that is...

I know that a walk-in shower leaves you open to drafts and you can't build up the steamy sensation like in showers with doors...but the water out of those master shower heads is just not that hot...

I am not talking about running out of hot water after 5 or 10 min either--I rarely take a shower that lasts 5 minutes anyway

this house has two 50 gal NG water heaters and recirculating system so hot water is just a few seconds from the spout at any location. The original owners had more family members but we have just two adults taking showers at different times of the day/night and rarely using hot water at two locations--like dishwasher and shower or washer and shower--at same time. This is not about draining hot water...

I called the plumbing company back today because the plumber told me specifically that the two fixed shower heads would get HOT water--and they just don't...

so what is the deal--is this a problem I just have to adjust to (and it really annoys me because I do like hot showers but I don't take long ones) or is there something with the plumbing parts than can be adjusted to allow hotter water through the shower heads???

turning up the water heater thermostats won't do any good if the master valves automatically compensate for hotter temp at the valve itself...it would just restrict hotter water and allow more cold...at least IMO...

so any info/ideas???

Here is a link that might be useful: dual controller

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Comments (3)

frodo_2009
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
need to know brand and model of valves, think its a moen
of all valves in shower room, to give you any type of educated answer
loves2read
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
it is a moen assembly

sorry I don't know the actual valve models--no paperwork on that from the original owners and the plumber took the info I used to order the part--the part I ordered/replaced was 1423 Balancing spool Moentrol

maybe something like this for the two-head control
http://www.moen.com/products/T4111ORB

ours is oil-rubbed bronze and it is installed with the lever at the top and the pull-out valve under it which looks the opposite of the Moen site photo

the info on the Moen site says that it should turn from 'full cold to full hot' but there are stops

the plumber came back out and said that when he put in the balancing spool he had opened the hot stop all the way and that if he closed the cool stop that it would not do any good because the balancing spool would basically just reduce the flow of water to make sure the balance of hot/cold stayed the same...

he said that there is movement underway to basically take the choice out of amount of hot water coming through faucets and showers--that safety of not burning/scalding people is overriding someone's desire to have a 'HOT' shower...
when I asked about replacing the valve/lever with one that would swing right/left to allow me to regulate the balance of hot/cold...
he said it would be too expensive to actually change the control to that type of fixture because we would have to open up the shower wall--take out tile--replace it...

so we are basically stuck with either setting the water heater to higher temp because that will bring hotter water to the mix and will be expensive choice
or just learning to live with it like it is

I plan to take a shower in the two upstairs showers and see if their water is hotter than the one downstairs---
he said that the master shower is probably farther from the water heaters--and it might be farther than the other downstairs shower by just a little...which would influence the water temp at the head...

both water heaters are upstairs and closer to those showers...

it is just very frustrating to find out that something we really did not consider all that much would become so frustrating...
I don't take long showers--and I don't use the big tub at all--don't consider that I waste water compared to larger families or people who take a 15 min shower...so this irks me to no end--
our old house with its old shower had wonderful hot water and I am really going to miss it...

Here is a link that might be useful: shower valve
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drtechno, How cold is the water at the coldest part of the year? If it is 35-40 degrees (I've seen mine get near 32) then a 70 degree rise would bring it to 105-110...not 120 On a tankless, you assume a shower temp of 105 as if the tankless was outputting 105 degree water and forget about mixing. So, a 200k btu/h tankless could heat ~5 gpm from 40 - 110 degrees (which would give you a little extra for heat loss in the pipes and the option to run more than 105 if you like hotter showers) which is enough to run two standard showers, but not your 7 gpm master shower... and certainly not all three. The reason that you don't worry about mixing ratios on a tankless is because you aren't storing any water. On a tank system, it makes sense to store 40 gal of 140 degree water and mix it down to 105. There's no benefit to doing this on a tankless. Some of them even have bathroom controls so you can set your shower all the way to HOT and then set the water heater to output the exact temp you want. In practice, you generally set a tankless to 120 or so for the dishwasher and washing machine - but it doesn't change the capacity of the heater. You are running less water through the heater, but it's at a higher temp rise so the math is the same.
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frodo_2009
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
for your plumbers information..open the wall up BEHIND
the valve, and replace from the rear..common sence..
the only restriction you will have is the type of valve
if you have a single handle, because of the esction plate
you can't change to a 3 handle model..i have replaced many a valve in a tub, without cracking one tile

multiple head shower---problems w/hot water

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frodo_2009

loves2read
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multiple head shower---problems w/hot water

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frodo_2009

loves2readOriginal Author

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loves2read
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