Although it's possible that there's an illness in one or both males that is triggering this behavior, it is much more likely that the aggression is being triggered by Pumpkin and/or the kittens. Either or both could be creating a tremendous amount of stress for Max. Pumpkin is probably starting to come into heat, and the kittens are becoming more active and invasive.

Until you can get Pumpkin spayed and take her hormones out of the equation, you're going to have to do whatever is necessary to prevent Max from attacking Simba or anyone else. You may need to give him frequent time-outs in a separate room or keep him in a collar and leash. If he continues to attack, he may permanently destroy his relationships with the other cats.

Laurie

Pranjal - you are so good about taking in homeless and needy cats, but everytime you do, it will have an impact on your current community of cats. Have you had Max the longest? It sounds like he is stressed with all the changes - cats are not natural pack animals and do like to establish their own territories. At this point, he's upset and taking out his frustrations with anyone he can get close to. After taking him to the vet to make sure there is nothing physically wrong, you may just have to keep Max separated from the rest of the cats for awhile. Keep in mind that male cats (usually intact, but some not) can attack and kill kittens. Good luck.

Thanks Laurie and Sheltiemom for your replies.

I forgot to mention, Max doesn't go to attack Nikita, it's only Simba. Everytime the kittens have been out (10 mins or so, until I finish cleaning their room), Max is in a different room. When he's in there with Nikita, everything's cool. When Simba's there with him, fights start. Fights start without reason at other times too - just as Simba walks by, or whatever.

I couldn't reach the vet today, I'll call him up to check if we could get Pumpkin spayed (she's lactating, and her weight is an issue, that's why we didn't discuss spaying her).

And what amazes me the most is that Max has been extremely friendly with ALL the cats (adults + kittens) that we've rescued until now. He loves these kittens too, and has never shown any bad behaviour towards them. Maybe it's Pumpkin's hormones, or maybe it's too many kittens at once?(though he's never been around all of them at once - one kitten at a time, he licks them and is very gentle with them.

All thru the afternoon Max slept peacefully, I will see how he behaves with Simba on their evening 'snoop and sniff' walk around the floors of the building.

I'll let him have his 'time out' from now on - should be easy as Simba's in another room most of the time. I'm hoping the vet says Pumpkin could be spayed soon.

Thank you again
Pranjal

Is Nikita a male or female? Have you ever had a female in heat in the house before with Max and Simba? It sounds to me like Max is competing with the other male, Simba, for Pumpkin.

You might have a difficult time juggling cats in order to get Pumpkin spayed. First you will have to wean the kittens at 8 weeks. Then, you will have to separate Pumpkin from all of the kittens for at least two weeks so that her milk can dry up. Then you can get her spayed and keep her away from the kittens for another couple of weeks to give her stomach incision time to heal (in case the kittens try to start suckling again). If you have a friend who could keep either Pumpkin or the kittens for a month after the kittens are weaned, that would certainly be easiest for you.

That's the schedule that was recommended to me by my vet when I rescued a queen with young kittens.

BTW, when I recommended a collar and leash for Max, I must have had a momentary brain freeze. NEVER use a leash on a cat collar. Use a leash only with a harness on cats.

Laurie

Thanks again Laurie, very good info! I'm already having a difficult time juggling cats around the house! :-)

I'll check with a friend if she could keep either Pumpkin or the kittens once they're weaned. Pumpkin didn't have enough milk for the kittens so we were giving them KMR twice a day. Now we're giving them KMR mixed with a tiny bit of kitten food, they're just learning to eat from a dish. I guess it's gonna be a difficult 4 weeks ahead until they're completely weaned and their Mum is spayed.

Nikita is a female. No, we've never had a female in heat in the house before with Max and Simba - I never knew neutered cats could compete for a female in heat. Actually once Max looked as if he was trying to mount Pumpkin but I thought he was trying to assert dominance.

The cats wear harness n leash when they go out, never collars. I've seen a cat getting tangled in it till it almost suffocated while it's human was talking to her friend at the park.

Male cats don't stop being male just because they're neutered, esp. if they are neutered after reaching sexual maturity. They can still be stimulated (and frustrated) by a female in heat. It's also possible that Max was not completely neutered. He may still have a stray bit of testicular tissue kicking into overdrive. I suspect your household will return to normal once Pumpkin is spayed and the residual hormones dissipate from her system (might take 6 weeks post-spay for that process to be completed).

In the meantime, just do what you can to prevent Max from making a lifelong enemy of Simba.

Laurie

You know, if you could convince your friend to take Pumpkin and the kittens now, that would give your boys a chance to get back to normal before Pumpkin is spayed. Then as soon as the kittens are weaned, you could take them back, leaving Pumpkin with your friend so that Pumpkin's milk can dry up, and she can be spayed and recover before coming back to your house. That'll not only give Max and Simba time to repair their relationship, but it'll also make it a lot easier to wean the kittens from Pumpkin if they are in two separate households for a few weeks.

I know how tricky your situation can be. When I rescued a queen with kittens, I ended up giving the queen to a friend of mine when it was time to wean the kittens and have Tommy (queen) spayed. I knew I wouldn't be able to bring Tommy back here because I had a very nasty, very geriatric female whose life Tommy would have undoubtedly made miserable. That was 12 yrs ago. Tommy still lives with my friend. In fact, I visited her just the other day. The Babies still live with me. My nasty old lady passed away a number of years ago.

Laurie

Thank you again, Laurie! Max has calmed down quite a lot, he's had only one fit since last afternoon. Is very friendly with Simba otherwise, they were playing this evening :-) Outside the house and on the leash too he behaved well.

I've found that not letting Max see Pumpkin/kittens at all is working.

I checked with my friend, unfortunately she already has three cats with 12 kittens total, and though her house is big, it's still causing problems because she has so many other rescued cats. She rescues strays and at one point had about 30 cats looking for good homes.

I think I'll see if we can manage until the kittens are weaned, then only Pumpkin could go to my friend and get spayed later.

Here, Nikita used to be the nasty young lady (just hissing and growling), but now she has mellowed quite a lot and wants to play with Pumpkin and the babies.

Did you keep all of Tommy's babies? How did your old cat react to them?

I'm glad to hear that segregating Max from Pumpkin and the kittens has calmed things for the time being. I hope he keeps his cool until you can get Pumpkin spayed.

I certainly know how the dynamics in a cat-heavy household can ebb and flow. I currently have 13 feline and 3 canine kids. We were up to 14 felines until we lost Bitsy to CRF in Feb.

Yes, we kept all of Tommy's babies and nephews, though one disappeared a few years later. We still have Tommy's three daughters and one remaining nephew. Tommy's sister was killed by their previous owner during a drug-induced rage. Tommy and one of her kittens were injured during the event, and Sister's two kittens were severely traumatized. I rescued Tommy and her three kittens and two nephews. I nursed Tommy and her injured daughter back to health while Tommy nursed all five kittens to weaning.

The Queen of the Domain, Pea, detested them all. We lived in a very small, two-story house, so Tommy and the kits had the upstairs while Pea had the downstairs and outside kingdoms. When it was time for Tommy to wean the kits, I had nowhere to put her, so I gave her to my friend. Eventually I managed to integrate the Babies into Pea's kingdom, but she always hated them. Fortunately, the Babies never challenged Pea's position as top cat, so she tolerated an uneasy truce with them. Pea was a tough old gal, in her teens when the Babies came into our lives, and never gave them an inch of slack.

If you're interested you can visit my website through my member page and read stories about my 4-legged family. You can see pics of them all on my website, too.

Laurie

Hey Laurie, you're amazing! How do you manage all those furbabies? I just read on your website about the Babies and how they came into your life. It's sad what happened to Tommy's sister. Thank you for saving the others.

Pea was quite the tough cookie! I love their names and the way you've described all of them. And Bear's story too.

Well here at my place, Simba and Max are snoozing happily on the sofa, playing the way they used to - it's as if that crazy phase never happened! The mantra is Never let Max see Pumpkin/kittens

Hmm I wanted to know if I should change the kittens' litter to what their Mum uses; they've started using it (even prefer it to their own shredded paper litterbox) and aren't trying to eat it, though they play in it but only if it is clean LOL thank God for that! There's no dust in it, only the bigger granules (bcoz I sieve it; do I sound crazy LOL but when he was tiny Max coughed so hard once bcoz of the dust, I started sieving it for him; I have a lot of time on my hands I know!).

Pranjal

Managing this household requires a commitment to my kids and an indifference to material possessions. After that, everything else is just living and loving day to day.

Tragically, Bear was owned by the same man who owned Tommy and Sister. A few months before he adopted Tommy and Sister, he called me and told me that Bear had been hit by a car and that because he couldn't afford the surgical repair necessary to save her, he had her euthanized. If he had just called me before he had her euthanized, I would have paid her surgical bill.

The night he killed Sister, he admitted to me that Bear hadn't been hit by a car at all. He had murdered her the same way he murdered Sister - in a drug-induced rage. I was heartsick. I cut off all communications with him after that night and carried mace with me at all times for a month afterwards in case he came up to my farm again.

But, back to happier topics ...

I'm very glad to know that Simba and Max are back to normal.

Do you have access to a non-clay litter like wheat litter or corn litter? If so, that's what I'd recommend for the kittens. At least those types of litter should be able to pass through their digestive tracts if ingested. If you can't get one of those litters in your location, then use a non-clumping clay. You really don't want to use a clumping litter with kittens because they may ingest it or Pumpkin may ingest it while grooming them. Misting the litter with a little water should help keep the dust down, too.

Laurie

Sam and RocKat were great friends until Oreo came in heat at 5 mo. They are both nutered but the hormones got the best of them. Oreo is now a year old and was spayed right after her heat but the boys still want to be top cat.