I used to live in Olympia (Washington) and I grew roses there in that Pacific Northwest climate. I haven't grown many of the roses on your list, and almost none of them when I was in Washington. Let's see what I can tell you. Alberic Barbier is a great beauty, lovely foliage and blooms; gets pretty large and has one big flowering with scattered blooms following. I don't remember seeing AB growing in Washington but suspect it does well there. Easy to grow and superbly healthy. Chianti: I've seen this rose a couple of times in Italy and it's spectacular in bloom. It's once-blooming and large and I don't know now it does in the PNW. Konigin von Danemark: this is a beautiful rose, more deeply colored and thornier than most of the Albas, and harder to propagate from cuttings, at least in my experience; but a splendid variety. I had a lot of Albas in Olympia and they were every one of them beautiful fragrant roses, healthy and easy to grow: I recommend them all highly. Nur Mahal: I've had this rose for years and it has never reached its potential, but I've heard (often) that it can be great. I didn't discover the Hybrid Musks until after I moved to Italy, but I bet that they're the PNW shrub roses par excellence. I love this class, especially the Pemberton musks, for their fine foliage and habit, beautiful and sweetly scented blooms, and overall air of grace and luxuriance. They're easy to grow. Queen Elizabeth: this is a fine stout upstanding rose that was common in Washington when I lived there and grows all over here in Italy as well. I had it one time and got rid of it because I couldn't detect any scent. It's easy to turn up one's nose at QE because she grows everywhere and has no fragrance, but I bet she's still going to be around in a hundred years (the rose, not the monarch), and looking quite handsome in old age. Rose de Rescht. I had it in Olympia and didn't love it, but it grew well and I don't remember any disease. I have it here too but my cutting-grown plants are still growing. Fragrant and a good dark color. Sharifa Asma. A pretty rose, pale pink but I always think of it as white, with a superb scent, one of the best. I have SA for its fragrance; note also that it's easy to grow. I had a lot of DA roses in Olympia and adored them, but they were never vigorous for me. I suspect they needed fatter living--more water and nutrients--than I generally supplied my roses, and possibly a sunny warm spot in the garden. Stanwell Perpetual. Had it there, have it here, suspect I've never brought the best out of it. Beautiful little shapely fragrant blooms, pale pink with a button eye, on a wiry thorny open very tough bush that has nifty Pimpinellia foliage and likes to sucker. One of the first and last to flower. For me in Olympia many of my best roses were the once-blooming old roses: I had Albas, Gallicas, and Mosses, and loved them all. I didn't get around to Centifolias (except for Crested Moss, which was superb) and Damasks, but would certainly want to try them if I lived there. Bourbons didn't do much for me in Olympia. I suspect many of them needed more heat than they got: 'Louise Odier' is a far stronger plant here than in Olympia; and I'm finally allowing 'Mme. Pierre Oger' back in my garden here after suffering with her black-spotted wimpy predecessor in my Washington garden. As I mentioned above, I hadn't yet discovered Hybrid Musks when I was in Olympia, but think they would be wonderful. Another small group to look into would be 'Mlle. Cécile Bruenner' and related roses: they're a reasonable size, have enchanting little flowers and foliage, are healthy as can be and aren't like anything else in the rose world. And then there are Kordes's Fruehlings- roses, big fragrant once-blooming species hybrids of great character and beauty, and some of the early-flowering species yellows like 'Canary Bird' and R. hugonis, that bloom, I think, with the lilacs. Most of the roses I've listed are shrubs, some quite large, and many are once-blooming; they're also informal in style and for garden design purposes best thought of as landscape shrubs. These are the kind of roses I love, but they may not be your taste in roses. More upright and contained varieties with large flowers and repeat bloom are more formal: they include most Hybrid Teas and Floribundas, many Hybrid Perpetuals, and the Portlands/Hybrid Damasks. I don't know much about these, but there will be some varieties that will be adapted to the mild wet winters, dry summers, and lack of summer heat of western Washington. I never had much trouble with disease in my garden, and would take with a grain of salt what eastern growers say about disease resistance of their roses. Olga knows exactly what she's talking about, but she has high blackspot pressure in her garden, and in my experience this isn't much of a problem in Washington; a rose that defoliates for her might do quite well for you. I never sprayed my roses. One hybrid Tea that does well in Washington I believe is the old variety 'Radiance', which also has numerous sports. Melissa

camp, I don't know if you ever saw it but I did wander over to the ARF in a weak moment last year & posted a tasteless ditty illustrated with some birds but it didn't last long, it was on a thread you started about posts disappearing. I am out of my area of interest with roses but I can just imagine the financial carnage. I've been ordering more grassy material to build this pocket prairie and wouldn't want to make those folks over there feel jealous & inferior over the big bucks I'm throwing around for 'Blonde Ambition' skeeter grasses, more bluestems and especially the very red Big Bluestem turkeyfoot named 'Red October' I can't wait to try out once I figure out a place to plant him. Maybe close to those new stiff blue Indian Grasses where they'll catch the late afternoon sun rays picking up that bright red? I'm already pining for next fall to see the results and bemoaning my lack of space. Greenhearted, my new fav name I ran across recently is Wanda Dudwash. Maybe she can be Fendler's girlfriend. The bladderpods are nice because they bloom so prolifically and early then dry up to almost nothing with the hard pods. You can easily snatch them up if you want to control next years crop. In their habitat, they will make the landscape a sea of yellow as early as February. Mine were in a seed pack I bought from Native Seeds of Sonoran Desert mix along with some other interesting off the beaten track wildflower mixes. I couldn't resist trying this very red Big Bluestem and I can't wait to see it color up next fall. This time of year I am always planning for next fall/winter interest. Come winter, I will be thinking of spring. Here is a link that might be useful: http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/amaranth

Oops sorry my intent was not to confuse or to incite "wonton lust" it was just pure ignorance. Mindy its good that you brought this up because I think I added the same frustration and confusion to the plant swap. Think I am going to move on to Mid Atlantic.just a square peg. Katy Mindy, Answering this one is like choosing which one of my three daughters is my favorite, which like every good parent I say is impossible. Then again if I had to chose right now as of this moment it is my oldest who is coming home next weekend for a non stop marathon in Excell instruction in the hopes that I will be able to combine records from junk drawers, sweat shirt pockets, ect. and put together a concise record and maintenance plan for the yard that extends beyond the present "Oh you mean the big bush in the front yard." Oops once again I digress here is my list of favorite shrubs as of November 6 at 10:00am. 1. Myrica pensylvanica I have fallen for the quiet elegance of this plant Zone (2) 3 to 6 suspect to 8 2. Ilex glabra compacta & shamrock I love how these shrubs work well in both full sun formal situations as well as shady woodland. Zone 4 to 9 3. Ilex koehne Wirt L Winn beautiful large leaf and great berries Zone 7 to 9 4. Ilex pendunculosa Zone 5 5. Ilex meserveae all blues??, and Nellie R Steven- Zone 6-9 6. Ilex Rock Garden Zone 6 - 9 7. Spirea pink flowering - what a color work horse Zone 4-7 (8) 8. Hydrangea macrophylia Altona great depth of color vivid blue/purple, good fall color, nice leaf, consistent bloomer. *** 9. Hydrangrea macrophylia Niedersachen great color and delicate petals. *** 10. Hydrangea Lilacina nice lacecap lavender petal blue center with added interest of great fall leaf color *** 11. Hydrangea quercifolia both Queen and Snowflake Zone 5-9 12. Vaccinium corymbosum Blue Ray Zone 3 to 7 (8) 13. Vaccinium angustifolium Zone 2 to 5 (6) 14. Clerodendrum trichotomum Zone 6 (7) to 9 15. Callicarpa japonica Luxurians just when I think all of the excitement has left the garden. Zone 5 to 8 16. Viburnum nudum Wintethur great fall color 17. Viburnum burkwoodii really formal shrub and the flower scent in spring is intoxicating Zone 4 to 8 18. Viburnum setigerum Aurantiacum wow the orange peach berries in the fall next to the burgundy leaves of Hydrangea Quercifolia. Zone 5 to 7 19. Chamaecyparis obtuse Nana Zone 4 to 8 20. azeala Polly Hills Yuka 0 to minus 10 degrees 21. Rhododendron Cunninghams White re-blooms in the fall - ? Check with your local nursery This is a great thread I have already added too many selections to my spring wish list. I am particularly lusting after the swamp azalea. Katy *** I grow more varieties of hydrangea macrophylia than I want to admit to either my DH or you and considered to the best of my ability what I thought was a special macrophylia that to date has been under used in New England.

Hey joanie. We have the Big Agnes insulated air mattresses. They are fantastic and very comfortable. They are the size of a qt bottle and are easy to blow up. They are very tough and as I said I have used mine almost every night in camping set ups for months and it has no leaks or problems. I will link below to the ones we have. I hadn't thought about the truck windows having screens to that would be great. A small fan would help to move the air. You would definitely need a canopy of some kind. We got one at Dick's Sporting Goods. It is easy to set up and very sturdy. Gives great protection if it is raining. We have even pulled it over so that it is 1/2 over our tent front and we can then get in and out without getting wet :) I haven't cooked on open fires for all meals. Just an occasional cookout. We have a 2 burner propane stove that I love. I can make pancakes and coffee and great dinners with it. We have a camp fire only for warmth and ambiance. We have a folding table and set everything up the minute we get to camp and then we are done for the time we are there. We have one cooler and restock often from the grocery. When I am on the road with my bike it is a whole different setup . I have a tiny campstove and we use a picnic table if there is one or the ground if there isn't :(. I have a one person tent that is very light. I still use my Big Anges though..it is never far from me ! If I can help with any other ideas let me know. I love to camp !! c Here is a link that might be useful: Big Agnes air mattress