Thanks for the extra info, folks, and I'm definitely primed and ready to convince Braveheart to survive, Kate. Betty Boop does sound like the right height, peachymomo, so that can fill one of the taller rose spots near Watercolors, and ooh, ooh, put Carlin's Rhythm on the other side! Kim - I presume this one has some height on it from the picture you show (or is that just California). Either way it's a lovely rose and one to be proud of. Thanks for the info on Tamango - it's interesting that the cross of two fairly undramatic roses like that and Iceberg could have the wow impact of Heart 'n' Soul, and then produce the dark beauty of Stormy Weather as a grandchild - part of the fun of breeding I'm sure, but given the work you've obviously done to mark your crosses on the rose hips it puts the idea of "fun" into a different light. Chardie, you definitely got some great advice on Lady Elsie May and she's repaid you well in blooms! I agree that she really doesn't rest and earns her keep. Beth, I await with baited breath the intriguing shrubs that I'm sure you have in your yard. And Donald, I am very glad that you enjoy my nattering on about roses enough to want more of it, but I'm such a technology dinosaur the very idea of a blog makes me put my hands over my ears going "lalala". Besides, the main time I put out much writing is usually when I'm supposed to be doing something else, so I wouldn't want the obligations of a blog - I'll enjoy the ones by Paul Zimmerman and Sherry and others and just chime in here now and then. Cynthia

Nhbabs , what a glorious picture !! I love the sunset pushing thru the trees . Just beautiful . Kathi , please do post some pictures ! It sounds like you got some great ones . It amazes me how one moment the sky can be one color and then in no time at all shift to another . It's just incredible ! I really wish I could find my charger to my digital camera . Last night was incredible with the sky lit up by the moon and the shadows reflecting off the lake . Perfect for Halloween ! Here is the sunrise one morning . It was very pretty !

And, fwiw, this is a good pic to discuss editing on. The image above was edited some, and needs way more than I could get to approach the real sunset. While a photographer can take a mundane "scene" and jazz it up with editing, the editing to the one above is really about compensating for not capturing the real scene. Mostly as a matter of contrast, I suppose, I didn't get the real image of the great brilliant "silver lining of the thunderhead and the halloween orange of the lower strata. Also add in the dark purple of the passing storm. I can discuss this freely because I didn't have time to even try to take great photo. Getting all those things, in my experience, is hard enough even if you have the time to try. So, editing, when it imparts something that isn't there, can be a little , what,inaccurate? often editing helps but still doesn't make up for the difference in the image and the scene. Photographic skill, ha, and equipment. Personally, I have no reservations in trying to edit to make up for any lack of skill or luck in getting across what I was seeing/taking. I can understand if some purists see that differently. And, here is another one from last night where the bright part (thunderhead) contrast gets blown out, but the darker parts of the pic down lower have better detail. In the big picture, pardon the pun, its hard to get pure white and halloween orange in the same picture. The eye can see it, but getting the camera to capture that great of contrast, for me at least, is hard.

I know it's been quite some time since your message was posted, however, I do have Hosta Sum and Substance, if you are looking for it. Mine is ready to be divided, it's come into leaf already, but it should still be alright to divide. Hope that this helps. Happy Gardening! Shelley