I always wait three years on a rose I really want to succeed. Sometimes it takes that long for the roots to really get going and the top to grow the way it is supposed to. That said, if the plant is miserly, miserable and ugly, I don't hesitate to shove prune. My experience the GT is a very mixed one. I have had it in my garden for 14 years and would only very reluctantly take it out. It is extremely vigorous and takes some work to keep it under control. It blooms every 6-7 weeks in long-lasting flushes. The individual flowers don't last particularly long, but clean off nicely. It is very susceptible to blackspot in my cool, damp coastal climate. I've been known in years when we've had too much fog and damp to completely defoliate the plant and prune it back by half to two thirds in July. Even then, it comes back like something out a horror movie -- stronger and more menacing than ever. I love the color, the vigor, the huge quantity of blooms I get and the lovely form. Without the vigor though, it would probably have to go. So, I guess it's up to you whether you really want this plant or not. There are lots of other roses to grow!

Rickey, I think it was Billy J. because the cougar travels from our property onto his, through his woodland that separates us, and then gets his cats. The other Billy lives a half-mile north of me and his house is set back about 1/2 mile from the road---he is fairly new here and you likely wouldn't notice his place unless you noticed the green mailbox by the gate. He lives between the big new house west of J. road and the houses that face Old Burkhart. He stopped by the garden a few weeks ago and told me something was killing some of his chickens, and he'd seen a pit bull around and wanted me to watch out for the pit. I told him to watch out for the cougars, as I'd recently had the June cougar encounter. By the way, it is his property that they were seen crossing the other day, and that surprises me because he has several dogs. Unfortunately, none of his dogs are very large. I hope they're all OK. Keep an eye on your chihuahuas! The cougar I ran into along my garden fence the other day was walking along very slowly and stealthily, looking from side to side, and clearly hunting. It blended in really well with the dry grass so your little dogs might not notice it....and it absolutely did not make a sound walking through the tall grass. (We've since cut the grass back to stubble. I mean absolute stubble so a cougar cannot sneak up on us. First we mowed the grass as short as we could, and then I cut what was left with the weedeater.) I am about to go out to the garden to pick some more peppers to add to what I harvested this morning so I can finish the jalapeno bread and butter pickles. When I was out at this time yesterday, the rooster in the trap was having a crowing contest with my roosters. Of course, I didn't know it was a rooster in a trap, and was wondering why they suddenly had a rooster when they've never had chickens at all since we moved here. : ) So, if all is quiet when I go out in a few minutes, then maybe that is a good sign for us and a bad sign for the cougar. You probably did see a cougar's tail crossing into Fred's pasture. His neighbor that lives on the property kind of behind him has lost 12 or 13 chickens this year, and all but one disappeared without a trace. Fred has seen cougars in the past, although usually when he told me about them, he'd seen them at the old home place on the river west of Allen Rd. Back later after I finish all the pepper processing. Dawn

Eggshell (Quart Size) 8214 Tobacco Road Custom Sher-Color Match CHR COLORANT OZ 48 96 192 L-Raw Umber - 22 1 - C-Yellow Ox - 27 1 - Quart DU0029103 Midtone 601822026 I copied this of thenestingplace blogspot. Amanda said this was right off her Duron paint can. And if you want a tester can, this is what New Every Morning posted: I had them match it and this is what the Sherwin Williams tag says on the 31oz tester can: BAC COLORANT 0Z 32 64 128 N1-Raw Umber - 19 - 1 Y3-Deep Gold - 24 - - And now, here is what Red says: Every time you see a color in a magazine or online, and think: "OMG! That's it! That is the color that I am looking for in my kitchen! (or LR or DR or powder room)" You MUST remember that you are looking at a REPRESENTATION of a color. I experienced this first-hand when I oohhed and aaahhhed over the beautiful dining room wall with the gorgeous chandelier hanging in front of it in my Dec Cottage Living magazine. Then, I saw it again online on the Urban Grace blogspot. I KNEW it would not be exactly what I saw. I KNEW that it might look very different in MY lighting, in MY room, with MY furniture. And yet.........yes....I was drawn in. I had it mixed up at Ace Hardware. (Ironically, about a month later, earlier this year, my local Orchard Supply Hardware began carrying Pratt & Lambert paint, and a nice color chip of the color, Sierra Night, was available to me only 5 minutes away. I could have put myself out of my misery and SEEN, In Real Live Living Color, that the beautiful, murky, grey-green shade I was crying over, was really a deep intense foresty green.) Anyway. What I need you to remember.....The WRONG Tobacco Road.............you know, the one that is a replica of the original..........the one that is a knockoff by Behr or Lowes or Kwal...........might just have the golden tone YOU need in YOUR home. The original, might be a bit off for your needs. So try to not get too consumed with finding the formula. Try to find........ ........The look. Red Here is a link that might be useful: Urban Grace Dining Area with Sierra Night Paint

Thank you so much guys for your further helpful comments. So it seems GT and TG may grow too big... 5 ft, 6ft, 7ft.. and ratdogheads's GT canes as high as 12 ft, even when grown as a shrub?! This is why real life experiences are so valuable... thank you! It sure seems they are happier as a climber, and if so, and I assume they are also wider than advertised in that case, they are most certainly beyond what this specific space can accommodate. I want whatever plants that will sit there to be happy and comfortable... (*BUT, I am determined to find some other bigger space for them in the future... they are too beautiful not to!). So, in that sense a shorter side of the range would also be good as well for that particular space (it's safer). I checked out Molineux and Poet's Wife. They are pretty, and I saw yesterday the ARS website saying Molineux can take some shade. ratdogheads, how many hours of sun does your Molineux get? I've been searching/reading those varieties suggested... and currently about spinosissimas. mad_gallica, which yellow spinosissimas would you particularly recommend, and where can it/they be purchased? I saw a yellow one (R. spin. Williams' Double Yellow) at UK's David Austin, but US's does not seem to carry it. I also saw Harisons Yellow which as I understand it a half spinosissima? Could you please share your experience if you grow this variety? After the last post I also read at ARS's website that Julia Child can take some shade too, and Heirloom Roses' website says floribundas can be one of good choices for part shade. I'd appreciate it if anyone can comment about how JC actually does in part shade. Thank you again for your comments so far, they are really helpful!