Back home again. Well, I'm afraid news was bad. His EEG was flatlined, there is no brain activity. Tomorrow they'll back him off sedation and determine if he's breathing on his own or not. Then his kids will need to make the difficult decision. SIL said that FIL had specifically stated he wanted DH & I to have power of attorney, so while he didn't have a notarized statement, we now have something to move on with. We'll likely petition to be named executors...and this week I'll have to do all the paperwork, etc. I've never had to do all this, so it'll be a crash course of sorts. We're (the kids & spouses only) are going to the house tomorrow to get it secured till we can get in and finalize everything. FIL was a hoarder...so it'll be a nightmare.

We just had to have our 11 yr old kitty's teeth pulled - all except for her 4 fangs. It was $900. The follow up appointments are at no charge (as long as the vet doesn't have to do any work on her). The vet was a dental specialist. From what I understand, most regular vets won't touch this sort of major surgery at all. If a tiny bit of tooth or root is left, the stomatitis will not be fixed. Puddin didn't even have to stay overnight, I was able to bring her home the same day (w/antibiotics and pain meds). She did say some vets do charge several thousand dollars, and keep the kitty several days, which she feels is unecessary, if there are no complications. Puddin had her surgery on a Thursday, and by the following Monday, was feeling a lot better (she came home with 6 days worth of pain meds, and was recommended to use for 3 days at the minimum, which is what we did). We adopted her in December 2006 - had the worse breath - very putrid. She had other health issues to overcome (courtesy of the "rescue" that had her), and we finally realized there was something not right w/her mouth a few months ago. She had never had any problems eating (even raw meat chunks), but the change in her behavior since her surgery does show that she did suffer before the total extraction. We had her on steroid and antibiotic therapy for a few months, and it helped a good bit, but not enough, and that wouldn't cure the problem, it just masks it for a while. It helped, but she still wasn't totally comfy. From reading on the internet, and talking to the vets, there are no magic potions or drugs that can fix this - they can only mask it and not 100%. While steroids did help, she still wasn't comfortable and was in PAIN, just not as bad as before the drugs. And, the longer you do steroid therapy, the less chance you have of the extractions working. The dental specialist has gone through this w/people before - keep insisting on steroids and finally realize that it is working less and less, and decide they want extractions, and it doesn't work! I did lots of internet research - there is a yahoo group on Feline Stomatitis, but what that group/site taught me was that NOTHING WORKS except for the extraction. There were tons of people that tried and continue to try homeopathic/holistic/traditional meds, rinses, etc... and none of them work. They may seem to help for a bit, and then more issues arise. And, these people seem to forget, that throughout all their experimenting, their kitty is SUFFERING and in PAIN. Plus some of this stuff is toxic - someone was singing praises about some "magic" mouth rinse - it had essential oils in it - EEEK! (Essential oils are deadly to kitties. So maybe it soothed kitty's mouth for a bit, but would end up destroying their liver/kidneys.) If the diagnosis is definitely stomatitis, NOTHING will cure it except for extraction. It was a hard thing to do, but I do not regret it. Since the extractions (end of August), she now does a full body kitty bath every day (never has done that before), and is much more active and happy. Her 1st after surgery check up went very well - things are improving greatly (both regular and dental vet warned us that it will take months to totally heal/clear up, and she may need steroids on occasion along the way - so far, just once). IMHO - 1. Get a definite diagnosis; 2. Find a dental specialist that you can get to (our's is in Alpharetta, GA - about 20 miles from us, but she has people drive from all over the SE US). Hopefully you will have more than one to choose from, so you can "shop"; 3. Hopefully you can find one that has a reasonable fee - if not, maybe you can convince the vet to let you take kitty home early = less monty? 4. Save up $ for it, and do steroid and/or antibiotic therapy until you can get it done. It will at least make your kitty feel better (not great, but better) until you can afford to get the teeth extracted; 5. Have ALL the "bad" teeth pulled at ONE time. I know it sounds awful, and you will feel awful for your kitty, but it is better to get it done ONE time, instead putting kitty through that several times! 6. Give probiotic supplements when you do antibiotics, to keep kitty's digestive system comfy. Our kitty is and was negative for all the nasties (FIV, calci, etc...), but was so sick when we adopted her, that might have triggered the stomatitis, but we will never know. (PS. You will need current blood work before the dental vet will do surgery. Most dental vets are referral from your regular vet - they don't just instantly take you and pull your kitty's teeth. They will want a history from your regular vet showing that you tried steroids, etc... and that it didn't work. Also, our dental vet wanted Puddin OFF steroids/meds for a bit before she saw Puddin - she wanted to see Pud's mouth looking its "normal" bad self. Oh yeah - Pud now bites and chews her toys - she wouldn't do that before the extractions, either. While it may seem like alot of money - you can do steroid therapy while you save up the $ needed. Oh - keep in mind it is not 100% sure bet. There is a small percentage of kitties that it doesn't work for (mostly those that have been on steroids for years), a percentage that it will help alot, but not cure. (I think it was 70% has 100% cure, 20% have improvement and 5% nothing.) If the cat has any of the nasties (FIV, calcivirus, etc.), that also lessens the chance of 100% cure. Some regular vets will say that cleaning will help, but that will only make the kitty's mouth look nicer for a bit, but since it isn't a cure, the stomatitis is still there, and the gums and teeth will go back to bad after a short while. Our regular vet didn't want to even try cleaning, she said it would just be a waste of our $ - Pud's mouth might look better for a few weeks or even a month or two, and go right back to where it was before. She would rather have that $ go to fixing the problem (getting Pud's teeth extracted). Pud eats raw food - she has no problem eating small meat chunks, and won't touch the nice soft canned food I got her for the few days after her sugery that her gums were too sore to deal w/the meat. She is still going through a learning curve regarding how to pick up food in her mouth w/out all those teeth! Hope this helps...

They look like 30" to me too. I think these pendants are pushed out over the backing cabinets and that's how they get away with having them be so short without having a worker bee have them in their face. They would be a little below my eyeline and block some of my view to whatever is on the other side of the island. If you are under about 5'3", they wouldn't bother you at all. If you are over about 5'10", you might hate them. If you allow for 6'ish tall people, Take the non-custom one and look at it in place at 28" and at 36" from the ceiling. There is ability to adjust its height built in. Your breakfast table fixture (and I love it) looks like its not adjustable. If the table height is 30", than "normal" is to hang 30-36" from the table, or a fixture height of between 30-36". There is nothing wrong with hanging it higher, but it may look wrong or out of scale - cultural norms are hard to shake. If you have a dining room, pin its fixture up so that it's 30" off the ceiling and see what you think.

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?