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Pie Crust - Success Finally!! (sort of)

16 years ago

So I got a workable dough for the first time! Thank you Martha Stewart wherever you are!

However I don't think I rolled it thin enough. I ran out of lattice strips - LOL. I managed to use the ends to piece some strips together. So it probably won't be 'flakey,' but I broke a tiny piece of the top off and it tasted great!

Before:

After:

No red box this year. I can't wait to make another one!

Bonnie

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Comments (16)

Terri_PacNW
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Wow Bonnie..that looks amazing..

I made AnnT's Lard/Butter Crust for the Sweet Potato and Pumpkin Pies, using Palm Shortening for the "lard" part..Hopefully in a few months when I get my half a hog..I'll get to render my own and try it with that!

And then I made the Kentucky Chocolate Pecan Pie..into Gluten Free..
We'll see how the crust is..and I used my GF flour blend for the flour in the pie..

I'll keep you posted on the GF crust..the liquid is orange juice (Kamren Squeezed)LOL and an egg..
bons
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Yes - I'd love to hear how your Gluten-free crust comes out! I didn't have time to experiment with gluten-free crusts, and I was on a mission to successfully make a pie crust from scratch :-)

I'm eating Gluten and Sugar today. (I'm not Celiac, I just know it's better for me if I don't eat Gluten, so I rarely do).

I actually did make a Vegan Pumpkin pie also, for my DIL - It doesn't have a crust, but it does use gluten free flours. We'll see how tastes.

Bonnie
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Pie Crust 101
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Comments (40)
Rolling pie dough: I always have success, and have followed the Joy of Cooking's basic pie dough recipe for decades -- I've successfully baked pies for 40+ years. The recipe calls for only the basics: cold butter, room temperature shortening (I use Crisco), all purpose flour, salt and 4-6 Tablespoons of cold water. That's it. Very simple and very traditional. The dough is NEVER chilled. Think about it: You want the butter and shortening to be soft and absorb/mix-in with the dry ingredients. Chilled fat will take a LOT of handling to get to that consistency, and increased handling results in tough pie crusts. That's why most of the recipes I've seen do not call for chilling the dough. I mix the flour, salt and butter together using a hand-held pastry blender -- See photo. It's a simple, basic pastry making tool that costs between $5 - $10. Very traditional, very tried & true. Sometimes I mix the butter in first, sometimes I mix the shortening. Whichever you choose to use, use the blender to mix the dry ingredients and butter/shortening until the crumbs look like peas. Then add either the butter or shortening and continue mixing with pastry blender until the ingredients look like cornmeal. You really will notice the difference. At that point, add the cold water 1 Tbs at a time, using a fork to lift and mix the ingredients together. While the recipe calls for 4-6 Tbs., I find that 4 Tbs works for me ....sometimes as much as 5. This has been true regardless of whether I've made pies in the dry, mountainous West, or the humid east coast. You'll add only enough water until you can get most of the dry ingredients to hold together in a ball. Assuming it's a 2-crust pie, I halve the pie dough and immediately begin working the first crust. I leave the rest of the pie dough in the bowl, uncovered, open to the air, at room temperature. I ALWAYS roll the dough on a pastry cloth, using a cheese cloth cover for the rolling pin. I use a 40 year old wooden rolling pin. Standard size and weight. Absolutely nothing fancy or unusual about it. The key to using a pastry cloth and cheese cloth cover for the rolling pin is that you will be able to roll out your pie dough and use MUCH less flour. All you need to do is lightly sprinkle a small amount of flour on the pastry cloth, roll the rolling pin over the top of the pastry cloth to get some of the flour on the pin, then begin to work the dough. I have granite counter tops in this house. Other houses have had Corian, wood and the old fashioned vinyl. The type of counter makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the crust. I promise! I anchor the pastry cloth with my body in the front and cannisters in the back, so that everything stays fairly quiet...but even it if moves a bit, that's not a problem. When rolling out your pie dough, work gently but quickly. Do NOT lean on the rolling pin. Merely lightly push the pin from the middle of the dough out in circles. You'll work around the dough. You'll have thick spots of dough and thin, and work the thick spots out...by gently rolling the pin over the dough. Don't lean on it or force it by brute force. More often than not my pie crusts are not perfect when they are rolled out. I like a thinner crust, so that means that I'll have some repair to do as I lay the crust in the pie pan, or lay the top crust on top of the filling. There is lots of room for forgiveness. If it's the bottom crust you're repairing, no one will ever know because it will be hidden by the filling. If it's the top crust, your cut-outs to allow the steam to escape the baking pie will camouflage that. The key is to ensure you have a solid bottom crust so that juice will not escape the pie crust, AND to ensure you have a large enough bottom crust that you can flute the edges of the pie. OR, a large enough top crust for fluting....I've done it both ways, and it just depends on what the crust gods decide that day. I hope these suggestions help. I assure you that once you understand what you're supposed to do, you'll be able to turn out consistently good pie crusts, with confidence and speed. Here is a link that might be useful:
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Comments (57)
I debated on whether to add this since it is long. It was submitted by Marys1000 back in Oct '08. Don't know which forum. But it was a lot of fun to read and you might enjoy it: Here is an article I found very informative in my search for info on pie crusts. She spent a lot of time actually baking with lard, oils, goose fat, and even suet. November 15, 2006 Heaven in a Pie Pan: The Perfect Crust By MELISSA CLARK A FEW years ago, I achieved perfection in a pie crust and it smelled like pig. Not in a muddy, barnyard way, but with a very subtly meaty, nutty aroma. Carefully confected with part butter and part freshly rendered lard, this pie pastry was everything baking-book authors and bloggers wax poetic about: a golden-brown-around-the-edges epiphany richly flavored and just salty enough to contrast with the sweet apple filling, the texture as flaky as a croissant but still crisp. It shattered when you bit it, then melted instantly on the tongue. The only problem with my masterpiece, I told my guests as they licked the crumbs off their plates, was that I was never, ever going to make it again. Because what they didnt see was the outsize effort that went into acquiring and preparing the not-so-secret ingredient: leaf lard, the creamy white fat that surrounds a hogs kidneys. The veritable ne plus ultra of pig fat, its far superior to supermarket lard, which is heavily processed stuff that can have an off taste. But leaf lard is hard to track down (I special-ordered it from a friendly butcher) and a headache once you get it. Step one: pick out any bloody bits and sinews, chop the fat into pieces, and render it slowly in a double boiler for eight hours. At the end of the day, be prepared for a kitchen that smells like breakfast at a highway diner, and a pan full of dangerously molten fat crowned with cracklings. The leaf lard may have made great crust, but, like homemade cassoulet and puff pastry, this was a culinary Everest I felt no need to climb twice. Everest became a lot more manageable when I discovered that rendered leaf lard was available at the Flying Pigs Farm stand at the Union Square and Grand Army Plaza Greenmarkets on Saturday and by mail order. With this convenience at hand, I decided to have a pre-Thanksgiving pie crust baking binge to see whether, with the prep times and mess not being a factor, lard pastry was really the best when tested next to my favorite standby, an all-butter crust. Or was my memory of the lard pie crusts sublimity simply a hallucination caused by long hours of porcine toil? And while the kitchen was a floury mess anyway, why not test a variety of other fats to see how they affected the flakiness and flavor of the final crust? With fat as my variable, I decided to keep all the other ingredients in the crust as straightforward as possible. That ruled out using a mix of flours with different protein levels (like bread flour, cake flour and Wondra). For this pie, I went with all-purpose all the way. But before I started baking, I did some research in the pie crust recipe canon. Most crusts were a combination of shortening and butter, or all butter, so I started there. I first made five crusts: all-butter; all-shortening (I used the trans fat-free kind now on the market); 50-50 butter and shortening; 70 percent butter to 30 percent shortening; and vice versa. Crisp, flaky and sweetly luscious with deep, browned flavor, the all-butter crust was the hands-down favorite. The shortening crust, however, was a bust among tasters. Even when combined with 70 percent butter, all agreed that the unpleasant greasy film the shortening left on the palate was not worth the vague texture improvement. Shortening is much less expensive than butter. Is it popular with bakers because of the cost? Rose Levy Beranbaum, author of "The Pie and Pastry Bible" (Scribner, 1998), gave another explanation. Because shortening is manufactured for stability at extreme temperatures (both hot in the oven and cold in the fridge), it is very easy to work with, she explained in an interview. "Shortening crusts enable you to get fancier decorations that will hold up when you bake," she said. Once she mentioned it, I realized that even the quickly crimped borders on my shortening crusts stayed pert in the oven compared to the butter border, which melted into Gaudí-like undulations. With round one going to butter, I next experimented with oil crusts inspired by the Mediterranean appeal of a pie pastry scented with extra-virgin olive oil holding a caramelized pear-pomegranate filling. I tested several olive oil variations, chilling the oil in the freezer before cutting it into the flour, and trying other desperation measures like adding egg to one, baking powder to another, and some butter to a third. Then I went on to test canola oil, grapeseed oil, coconut oil and ghee. Not one managed to even get close to a minimally acceptable flakiness level. I had better luck using chilled mixed-nut butter (you could use any natural nut butter, such as peanut, hazelnut, cashew, almond and so on). Combined with regular butter, it turned out a marginally flaky, cookie-like crust with a toasted nut flavor that goes particularly well with pumpkin pie. A dozen or so pies down, it was finally time to pull out my hero, the rendered leaf lard. I pitted it against an array of animal fats beef suet (the fat surrounding the kidneys), duck fat and processed supermarket lard just to see what would happen. The processed lard was not available at my Park Slope supermarket, but I scored it in a nearby bodega. I ordered rendered duck fat online, and picked up suet from the butcher, who charged me a token dollar and told me he usually threw it away. Then I baked and baked. The whole house took on a rich pastry scent with undertones of roasted meat and butter, tinged with ginger, nutmeg, thyme and honeyed apples from the fillings. Not wanting to give up the flavor of butter entirely, I tested all the recipes using half butter, half other animal fat, and also at a ratio of 70 percent butter to 30 percent other fat. I also made a few crusts using all high-fat, European-style butter. The crusts were spectacular, each in its own way. The high-fat butter produced a crust that was markedly flakier, more tender and puff-pastry-like than those made with regular butter. It also shrank a bit less when I pre-baked it, and had an irresistible, browned butter flavor. This was the perfect crust for anyone not inclined to include meat products in a dessert. But overall, the favorites were the crusts using 70 percent butter and 30 percent animal fat. Any more animal fat pushed the meatiness factor too far onto the savory side of the pie spectrum, making these better for quiches than for fruit and custard fillings. Of the three animals, pig, cow and duck, the duck fat crust had the lightest flavor and, texturally, struck the best a balance between crisp and flaky. The pie crust revelation, however, was the suet pastry. As easy to work with as the shortening crust, it retained its shape perfectly in the oven, baking up crisp yet marvelously tender and flaky. It was nearly as delectable as the leaf-lard crust, tasting rich and slightly meaty, though not identifiably beefy. Suet is easy to find (most butchers can get it for you) and inexpensive. One caveat: suet is sold unrendered, but, as I discovered by way of my own laziness, you do not need to render it. Simply cut out the pinkish bits, finely dice or grate the chilled white fat, and toss it in with the butter. More refined bakers might blanch at the idea; if youre one of them, go ahead and render to your hearts content. Still, the leaf lard crust was as gorgeous as I remembered. Puffing up in the oven, and crumbling deliciously when you cut it, it took the crown. That very mild hint of bacon was happily still there. Not so with the processed lard pastry, which had an off flavor veering toward barnyard. Now, after my brief moment of pastry satisfaction, Ill move onto the next obsessive round of pie crust testing. Theres a whole roster of fats Ive yet neglected goose fat, marrow, foie gras fat, browned butter, truffle butter ... and if anyone out there has a source for bear fat, Ill try that too.
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The pie crust pouch looks like it would work well. I had a terrible time making pie crust for years. I won't go into detail on the various problems, but I was a total failure with pie crust. Until Nancy posted her recipe and now I only have problems with 2 crust pies. The upper crust is what gives me problems now but my Mom suggested to freeze the dough for the upper crust and then grate it over the pie. The grated frozen dough makes an interesting top crust and it works wonderfully. I now make so many pies that I always have a recipe of Nancy's Pie Crust in my refrigerator ready at all times. Single-Crust with Vodka (Nancy) Vodka is essential to the texture of the crust and imparts no flavordo not substitute. This dough will be moister and more supple than most standard pie doughs and will require more flour to roll out (up to 1/4 cup). 1 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour (6 1/4 ounces) 1/2 teaspoon table salt 1 tablespoon sugar 6 tablespoons cold unsalted butter (3/4 stick), cut into 1/4-inch slices 1/4 cup chilled solid vegetable shortening , cut into 2 pieces 2 tablespoons vodka , cold 2 tablespoons cold water 1. Process 3/4 cups flour, salt, and sugar together in food processor until combined, about 2 one-second pulses. Add butter and shortening and process until homogenous dough just starts to collect in uneven clumps, about 10 seconds (dough will resemble cottage cheese curds with some very small pieces of butter remaining, but there should be no uncoated flour). Scrape down sides and bottom of bowl with rubber spatula and redistribute dough evenly around processor blade. Add remaining 1/2 cup flour and pulse until mixture is evenly distributed around bowl and mass of dough has been broken up, 4 to 6 quick pulses. Empty mixture into medium bowl. 2. Sprinkle vodka and water over mixture. With rubber spatula, use folding motion to mix, pressing down on dough until dough is slightly tacky and sticks together. Flatten dough into 4-inch disk. Wrap in plastic wrap and refrigerate at least 45 minutes or up to 2 days. 3. Adjust oven rack to lowest position, place rimmed baking sheet on oven rack, and heat oven to 425 degrees. Remove dough from refrigerator and roll out on generously floured (up to Â¼ cup) work surface to 12-inch circle about 1/8 inch thick. Roll dough loosely around rolling pin and unroll into pie plate, leaving at least 1-inch overhang on each side. Working around circumference, ease dough into plate by gently lifting edge of dough with one hand while pressing into plate bottom with other hand. Leave overhanging dough in place; refrigerate until dough is firm, about 30 minutes. 4. Trim overhang to Â½ inch beyond lip of pie plate. Fold overhang under itself; folded edge should be flush with edge of pie plate. Flute dough or press the tines of a fork against dough to flatten it against rim of pie plate. Refrigerate dough-lined plate until firm, about 15 minutes. 5. Remove pie pan from refrigerator, line crust with foil, and fill with pie weights or pennies. Bake for 15 minutes. Remove foil and weights, rotate plate, and bake for 5 to 10 minutes additional minutes until crust is golden brown and crisp. Notes: I do not add the 2 TBL of water. And I do add extra flour until the dough is the right texture to roll out. Michelle
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Pie Crust Gadgets
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Comments (18)
The Perfect-A-Crust rings are not drawn on a mat like the old Tupperware mats (I have a wooden board with the pastry sizes on it like the Tupperware mat I used to use). These are hard plastic rings that are about 1-inch wide and the thickness you would want a nice thin pastry. I know one professional pastry chef who uses them for all their pies because of the consistent results; and a friend who does pastry and baked goods catering and sells a lot of pies, who uses them. The nice thing is that you won't need to use bench flour to roll the dough out. Too much bench flour can cause your crusts to become tough. Raw flour on baked goods isn't always a desirable addition due to the taste it imparts. You use wide sheets of plastic wrap with the rings. If you use an extra sheet of plastic wrap, your rings don't even get dirty. You also have a perfectly round crust when you are done -- no more trimming necessary - so one more time-saver. Clean-up is also a cinch when you don't have the mess of bench flour. -Grainlady
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Buehl
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Terri...how did the GF crust turn out? I struggled last night trying to get my GF pie crust to not crumble every time I tried to transfer it to the pie dish. I ended up having to "patch" the entire top of the crust! It was a very frustrating experience...so much so that instead of making my normal homemade crust for the other pies I used the Pillsbury pre-made b/c I had had it rolling out pie dough!

For the GF, I used the Gluten-Free Pantry pie crust mix.

Any tips?

TIA!
Buehl
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Oh...Bonnie....how was the GF Vegan Pumpkin Pie?
Terri_PacNW
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Okay, the pie was a success..it's my 9 yr olds fav holiday pie..and I knew that he wouldn't care if it was GF..so I could OVER indulge too..LOL

I too am not Celiac..but like you and many others Bonnie, notice the difference when wheat is not in my body..

The recipe comes from Gluten-Free Baking Classics by Annalise G. Roberts.

Traditional Pie Crust-makes 1 "bottom" 9" crust

1 c plus 2 T Brown Rice Flour Mix (2 c brown rice flour, 2/3 c potato starch, 1/3 c tapioca starch/flour)
2 T sweet rice flour (I used more for "dusting" during roll out too.)
1 T granulated sugar (omit for savory pie)
1/2 xanthan gum
1/4 t salt
6 T cold unsalted butter(not margarine) cut into 6 pieces
1 large egg
2 t orange juice or lemon juice

1. Spray 9" pan pie or tart pan with cooking spray. Dust generously with rice flour.(I used a glass pyrex pie plate and didn't spray or flour.)
2. Mix flours, sugar, xanthan, and salt in a large bowl of electric mixer. Add butter and mix until crumbly and resembling coarse meal. (I just used a regular bowl and a pastry cutter.)
3. Add egg and orange juice. Mix on low speed until dough holds together, it should not be sticky. Form dough into a ball, using your hands, and place on a sheet of wax paper. Top with a second sheet of wax paper and flatten dough to 1" thickness. Dough can be frozen at this point for up to 1 month; wrap in plastic wrap and then foil.
4. Roll out dough between the sheets of wax paper. If dough seems tacky, refrigerate for 15 minutes before proceeding. Remove top sheet of wax paper and invert dough into pie pan. Remove remaining sheet of paper and crimp edges for single-crust pie. Dough can also be frozen at this point for up to 1 month; line pie shell with wax paper, wrap with plastic wrap and then foil.
To prebake a bottom pie crust:
Preheat oven to 375F. Gently prick pastry 3-4 times with a fork. Bake pastry for about 25 minutes or until golden. Remove from the oven and cool completely on a wire rack. Prebaked pie shells can be stored in airtight plastic containers or plastic wrap in refrigerator for 3 days. For longer storage, wrap in plastic then foil and store in freezer for up to 2 weeks.
To partially bake a bottom pie crust:
Preheat oven to 375F. Bake pastry for 10 minutes. Remove from oven. Fill and bake as per recipe.

Now, to the "how"..

I made it last night..and wrapped in wax paper only..and into the fridge over night. Pulled it out and tried to "roll" it with wax paper on top and bottom..top paper started ripping and "thinning"..so I pulled that off and sprinkled the dough with sweet rice flour and continued to roll out..It didn't have alot of "crimp" room...but I didn't want to play with the dough to much. It was relatively easy to work with for a GF dough. It was a bit "gritty" as somethings are that use Brown Rice flour..although this container of flour mix I had made up had some Sorghum, and some white rice flour not all brown rice for the base of the "blend"..so that could contribute to a bit of the "crackerness". LOL But it goes okay with the pie..

Here's the pie recipe...I know it was posted here..but I didn't write down who posted it.. so if it's yours please claim it! Might be Becky's

Kentucky Chocolate Pecan Pie

unbaked pie crust
1 c chopped pecans (or walnuts)~I used a half n half.
1 c chocolate chips
~sprinkle nuts and chocolate over pie crust
Mix
1/2 c brown sugar
1/2 c white sugar (I used 1/3 each)
2 eggs
1/2 c melted butter
1/2 c flour (I used the above blend.)
1 pinch of salt
1 t vanilla
Mix the rest of the ingredients and pour over the chocolate and nuts. Bake in 325 oven for 35-40 minutes.
Buehl
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Thanks Terri! Unfortunately, I am Celiac so I have to stick to eating GF. I'm definitely going to try yours the next time I make pie!
User
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Great looking Pie Bonnie.

Ann
mudlady_gw
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Will those of you who made GF pie crust please give an honest rating describing how it looked and felt in your mouth. I made a GF crust that was primarily potato starch and corn starch. (Recipe from The Gluten Free Kitchen.) I made a pumpkin pie so it was only one crust. The dough was a beautiful white and I rolled it between sheets of parchment paper. It did stick to the paper but I was able to repair any tears or thin spots and I made a beautiful fluted edge. It was a little too dark when baked, but not burned. The texture was much too firm and the taste was bland and not anything I would ever serve to a guest. There was no rice flour so at least it wasn't grainy. I used to make great pies, both one and two crusts. GF is always a disappointment. I'm glad I spent today alone. I used to go to my son and DIL's on Thanksgiving but when he asked what they needed to do to cook for me I told him not to bother. I think asking them to be constantly aware of cross contamination would be very irritating. In fact, when I went GF I gave them some of my non-stick pans and utensils. I doubt that they could remember to avoid cross contamination while preparing a large meal in a tiny kitchen. Maybe by next year I will have found GF recipes that are tasty enough that I will invite them here.
bons
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
The GF Vegan Pumpkin Pie was just OK in my opinion. It was crustless, with some GF flours in it. No soy - but Almond milk. My DIL liked it - but she's easy to please. I probably won't make it again. I think there must be better vegan Pumpkin Pie recipes out there somewhere.

Mudlady - I have some fabulous GF recipes - some I've found and some I've created. I haven't tried any pie crusts, but I will at some point (Terri's looks good!). I have some great cookie recipes, and a wonderful (and easy) Foccacia Bread, and muffins. Is there something in particular (besides a pie crust) that you're looking for?

Bonnie
eileenlaunonen
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Gorgeous!!!
sally2_gw
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
That's a beautiful pie. What's the sauce you put on top?

Sally
Terri_PacNW
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Mudlady and Buehl, I recommed the book I referenced for the pie crust..

It's a new approach..and does much of what Bonnie does with her recipes..Does the best rendition of a "real" baked good..but with the changes needed so that folks that suffer Celiacs can eat it!

So far I've made a cranberry bread quick bread and it was tasty too..
jessicavanderhoff
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Bonnie, that pie is stunning!

Did you discover anything that might help other pie-challenged people? 'Cause I've tried about 6 different recipes and they tear and stick every time. (Luckily, I wasn't responsible for any pies with top crusts, so it wasn't as disastrous as it could have been). Did your recipe call for shortening or lard? How long did you chill the dough before rolling? What did you use to roll it? How long did it take you to roll it? What method of rolling did you use? (back and forth or from the middle?) Did you roll it on a cutting board or something, so you could flip it, or did it come off the counter easily?

Answers to these would be much appreciated from anyone who can do successful crusts. I'm really, really frustrated, and my grandma doesn't do crust, so there's no one who can teach me.
User
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Gorgeous pie Bonnie! Makes even me want to try......well almost!
bons
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
The recipe I used was from Martha Stewart's website (link below). It's an all-butter recipe, and was pretty easy to work with. I had all of my ingredients cold, used my food processor, and was careful with the amount of water I added.

I refrigerated it for about 2 hours, and then rolled it between plastic wrap, using a regular (tapered) rolling pin. I only rolled from the middle outward, and tried to roll quickly so it would stay cool.

I probably should have rolled it thinner. While it was delicious, it seemed more like a pastry crust than a pie crust when it was baked. Not sure if it's the recipe or the fact that wasn't thin. Definitely not flakey, but it gave me confidence to try again.

Someone asked about the syrup on top? I used a popular recipe from allrecipes.com called Apple Pie by Grandma Ople. The syrup is made with butter, water, white and brown sugar. I poured some over the apples, and the rest over the crust. Quite delicious.

Bonnie

Here is a link that might be useful: Pate Brise
jessicavanderhoff
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Thanks, Bonnie! Maybe next year :-/

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