Gandalf, You missed the point. What I am geting at is to be true to the spirit of bonsai a progression is needed BEYOND thanking the Japanese/Chinese for their cultural "gift" to us. If we are to really practice bonsai, as the Japanese do, we have to stop the "hero" worship and get on with it. Of course the Japanese (Chinese, Koreans, South Asians, etc.) are due credit and honor for developing bonsai. The cultural debt is a deep one. However, retaining "the Japanese do it better" inferiority complex won't help us in the least. Bonsai is a dying art in its homeland(s). It's known as an old man's passtime in Japan by and large. The cultural revolution in China pretty much squelched it there. Things are changing in both places. The market for bad mass produced mallsai in Japan is a fast growing one--so much for tradition. China is struggling to emerge as a world power and is struggling with traditions as well. Bonsai's primary driver in the coming decades will be the West and I'm not being an insensitive cultural barbarian. This thought isn't mine. It's been voiced by more than a few Chinese and Japanese bonsai people. Check out this thought in books like Wee Yu Sun's Artistic Potted Plants, or in the statements of more than a couple of Japanese artists over the last few decades. "The term "Americanization" comes to mind. Cultures/peoples/countries across the world resent the fact that their younger counterparts give up on or quit practicing the old beliefs and adopt a "Western" attitude, just so they can be chic or fit in in the popularized way the "Modern/Western" world is." And please stop with the "big bad America" rap. It's quite a tiresome, lazy argument and doesn't apply to Japan in the least. Japan has long been in the "first world" and on the cutting edge of modern technology for quite some time. That's pretty apparent to anyone with a television or a computer. However, in becoming that modern economic power, the Japanese are losing alot of traditions. The country is undergoing a tremendous population shift and dropping traditions right and left. Bonsai is one of those arts. What I am arguing is not to be trapped into thinking that we in the West have nothing to offer bonsai. We do. In fact, we may become its principle repository as Japan's culture continues to change. For what it's worth, you might do some more detailed research on the history of bonsai. The long 1,300 year history you've cited is misleading. There is a huge difference in what was done in China a millenium ago and what the Japanese are doing now. The Chinese collected trees and plunked them into containers without altering them. A majority of the meticulously groomed award winning Japanese bonsai that one sees now in shows and in books have been bonsai for only a short 100 years or less--which is the rough time frame in which bonsai took firm root as a popular passtime in Japan. The gulf between the original Chinese animism, tree spirit container plant and the primped, wire-groomed, power tool-carved Japanese bonsai today is a pretty huge one. I think there may be a thesis in how modern power tools and modern manufacturing capabilities (wire, tools, etc) have dramatically influenced the advancement of bonsai...

honeybunch, I am out of cupids dart, chinese pinks, geranium orchid blue, and lobeliea cardinalis. Please make 4 more selecrions if you want any of whats left.... Updated.... adenium, desert rose african daisy jaffa ice aster, powder puff baby blue eyes burning bush, eastern cape gooseberry catchfly chrysanthemum court jester clarkia, pink buttercups convolvulus, mostly blues and whites convolvulus, unknown dianthus, crimsonia dusty miller dusty miller, silverdust four o\'clocks, mix hollyhock, burgandy hollyhock, cream with pink blush hollyhock, maroon red hollyhock, medium pink single hollyhock, mixed colors hollyhock, plum hollyhock, red hollyhock, unknown lobelia cardinalis morning glory, purple morning glory flying saucers morning glory heavenly blues morning glory light blue flash pansy, jolly joker pansy brunig penstemon, iron maiden penstemon, naviagator strawflower, short pinks and whites sweet pea, henry eckford sweet pea, high scent sweet pea, mix sweet pea, old spice sweet pea king edward VII viola, coconut sorbet viola, magnifico viola, unknown viola, velour blue bronze (small trade) wildflower mix yarrow, cense queen zinnia, giant cactus flowered

Alpinas and macropetalas will do well in shade even north wall. Remember that dark colors will never play good in shade. I have about 50 dif clems in partial shade and all of them do well, maybe not as prolific as full sun but great show anyway. Polish spirit is one of most prolific for me but flowers are similar to jackmanii in color so would not look good in very shady spot IMO.

"Believe me, I have planned trips to pass by certain stores that I have wanted to visit in the past. I think however with Donahues I will settle for ordering the quart sized plants and growing them out myself." Hey, Miguel, a visit to MN in the early summer/mid summer is great, warm temps during the days, cooling off in the evenings. After living in St. Louis for 8 years I moved back to MN and was frequently heard to say "What a beautiful evening" that first year back. We also have a wonderful arboretum here. So, come on up! I miss the early springs of St. Louis as it doesn't really get springy and beautiful in MN until May. But, oh, those cool summer nights almost make up for the late spring. I visted Donahues last April during their spring open house and bought several gallon pots of clematis. Have also ordered from them via mail with good results. Bobbie