What ever Bulldinkie.I really could care less about the price of gas.Every vehical I own gets near or well over 30 mpg. When I started this topic I was curious if people were traveling like most normal summer vacation seasons.Or if they were staying closer to home.My real intentions at the time were to see if places I was thinking of traveling to were crowded or if it would be a good time to go.Because of less crowds. Most members were aware of this.A few including your self became defensive.I guess if I had a 15mpg vehical that I was so proud of as your self.Perhaps I would get my shorts in a twist when I was reminded of the gas prices also?You certainly are proud of the Escalade.You mention you have one very often.How Great it is!How hard you worked for it! I think the real problem you have with me.Is I gave my opinion.I probably hit close to home?Other wise why would you feel the need to bring up your Phonics slam?You like to let everyone know how well off you are?I do not do that.For several reasons. I can say I worked for every thing I have also.Im not rich however live comfortable.I probably live a much more modest life.Reason because I worked so hard for what I have and it did not come easy. I have friends and family from both sides of the tracks.Both Well off and down right poor.I think the same of both sides.I do not think the poor group are less then my self.Luckily the Well off group think the same as my self.The few that thought they were better or smarter!Were removed from my group of friends and the realitives that thought they were better or smarter I do not claim. Perhaps you do not have any poor friends or relatives?Since you seem to give the impression that only Wealthy people work hard for a living?I must say that my poor friends and realatives work harder then any group of people I know and for less pay.Thats why there poor.I do feel sorry for them with the gas prices.Trying to feed a family most are two income parents.Who manage to get by.However gas prices and the chain reaction caused by the gas prices.Make it more of a struggle. Excuse me Bulldinkie for feeling sorry for this group.However I must say I feel more sorry for you.Because of your attitude toward this group.Believe me not everyone is as fortunate as your self.You should be so proud to not have to think of the poor or have the slightest caring feelings for this group of working class poor mostly younger just starting out familys. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon.But I guess you missed that while majoring in Phonics.You should be so proud of your self!Just do not get all bent out of shape when you cause me to Vomit!

First off I really liked it many many uses,I myself since kids left its just hubby &I.I had lapband surgery so I cant eat but 2-3 fork fulls,at a meal,So Im not cooking as much.I make lots soups, etc. Slow cooking roasts,we never were big on eatting out we like homemade.. I have all holiday meals here.It was nice with the Aga get everything ready place in different ovens,it was ready when guests arrived.I have the 4 oven black.It has 2 huge burners on top you start the food on top put in oven then.A large warming tray .We updated it so it was more efficient.We sometimes shut down over summer and cook on grill for summer.It was nice for certain crafts.hubby dried gloves boots in front.We had it seviced yearly,I waxed it every year with car wax.Last a lifetime.20,000 in canada but were asking 5,000. Im now getting ready for transplant (kidney) so now is a good time to sell.I 'll miss itTheres a hot for broil,hot baking,Aoven for lower baking,a warming oven ,a simmer oven,I often use simmer while at dialysis ,it was ready when I got home ,nice because the last thing I want to do is cook when I get home.

I feel better today,but I also have dialysis today sooooooo its never ending it seems.It seems theres soo many here with health problems. Thank you for thinking of me. I amnot on the list yet.But if a family member or someone else were to donate a kidney I could have transplant now.No one in Immediate family can donate.So I wait.The dr said if no family member donates its a 3-4 year wait for a kidney,just not sure I can wait 3-4 years,Im having anxiety attacks at dialysis now.I lose my breathe and they need to put oxygen on.Its tough.Ive been there now it will be 9 mo.

Scott & Jerseypool, Thanks again. You are both much better than seeing a psychiatrist. Now for the longest post in Gardenweb history: This builder has been doing fiberglass for 18 years. He in my opinion has the most experience and was able to show us many example projects within even 5 miles of my home. Very comforting in that respect. All the work looks top notch (level, etc). They have also been doing work in our town forever so they can get building department issues moved quickly. Now the downside, he uses many subs but he is insisting that I work out all separate contracts and proposals through them. He is always there when they come but when I started this process, I really wanted to one stop shop. I don't mind him using subs, I just don't want to be paying 8 different people. For instance, even when I brought up negotiating price, he recommended I deal with each person separately. I really don't have time for this. To be clear, he said once work started, he would work the project, but I still feel like I have to keep talking to different people about patio design, electric, pumps, etc. The upside is I met each of these subs and they are all good at what they do, at least visually. My opinion is that with each of the subs having their own business, each of them must "eat" and in my neck of the woods, contractors have the biggest and nicest homes. These are not guys that are just getting by. I don't blame them for doing well for themselves of course, it just doesn't help me for the pool install. This manufacturer reps viking pools. The list I posted earlier was done by me, not him. They are the compilation of all the numbers I received from him and his subs. We called A&S and oh my Lord, the sales person was absolutely the worst at what she did. Rude and obnoxious. 2 minutes in she started to push gunite. Then she wouldn't even start the process until I got a septic feed moved (not a field - a pumped line). I told her I didn't mind getting that done myself but I need to work out a design first to know where to move it. She said she doesn't work that way. I can't believe how bad they were. No other contractors had an issue with this. Now, back to the prices: 1. What kind of Fencing - This is for black aluminum fencing. I don't know the brand but it looks like what I normally picture when I think of a pool fence. Nothing high end that I can see. 2 fencing companies here both are in that range. One said $28/LF and the other said "Under 7k" for 200' ($35/LF) 2. Does the excavation include hitting rock? No. $1,500 per day if we hit rock. 3. Equipment - Does not include pad. That is under the $8,500 excavation contractor's number. 500 sf Sta-Rite cartridge filter (Pentair I believe), Hayward Super Pump 2 HP (I know you do not like Hayward), Raypak 400k propane heater, Goldline 25k salt generator and controls. Install Mechanicals I guess is to install the heater, pump, and filter. 3. Electric - I have a 40 pole (I believe) panel already in my house but believe it or not, I am out of circuits. They would need to add a sub panel in my house and then run power out to the pump and a couple of lights at the pool. He also bonds the wire mesh in the concrete ring around the pool. I didn't think $3,500 was a lot for this, only because I know in the NY suburbs, you can't get an electrician or plumber to come to your house for less than a grand. 4. He mentioned the 3' concrete ring, although he uses the mesh, not rebar. It looks like from Viking's install instruction that is ok. I did not ask about the blue stone. 5. Tile - We really want it. I've seen fiberglass pools without it, and it just looks a bit "cheap" to us. I will ask about winterization in this case. Thanks for the heads up. 6. Coping - Similar to the tile, we like the look of the coping. The pools that he showed us didn't have any cracks that we saw. Is there a right way to install the paver coping so that it doesn't crack? The paver contractor has done these in almost all the pools he showed us. He even said the coping look is what he finds to be the most important to make a pool "pop". Anyway, any input here would be great. 7. Flex pipe - From reading here, I was uncomfortable as well. For sure, this is to speed up work on his end. I asked about hard pipe, and he just said that they haven't ever had an issue with the flex pipe and it helps with the winters and movement of the ground. Another contractor we are waiting for now only uses hard pipe. All piping is 2". Once again the pricing for the pipe if from the "Mechanical" guy. His price had the pump, heater, pool cleaning, and piping. 8. Water feature - Made of pavers (similar to techo bloc mini-creta) with caps on top. Nothing like a waterfall here. Just something to add some sound and visual appeal. I think they included a light in the water which we most likely will take out. 9. What kind of fire pit? Similar to the water feature this will be built up with unilock/techo bloc pavers. Caps on top of the Techo Bloc Mini Cretas and similar half circle seating around. Wood burning. No fancy controls. 10. Why is the walkway split from the rest of the patio? No idea. Probably to bump up the price. It's all $14/sf basically. 11. What brand and model is the cover? He didn't tell me. He said Viking makes them to fit their pools. Sorry for the long post. One last thing. One of the contractors coming back to us was a mason for most of his career and then started installing pools about 6 years ago. He's more sophisticated in that he uses a computer, 3D design, has a blog, etc. He follows alot of the good advice I keep reading on line (no flex pipe, recommends VSDs, uses some type of gravel instead of sand for backfilling, etc). The downside to him is that we don't like his pools as much (he reps Leisure and the colors don't seem to have as nice a pebble finish as the Vikings) and of course his limited experience. I guess everyone has to start with a smaller resume and his activity online (videos, etc) seems to me that he is serious about doing a good job. I've only seen one pool he installed and it was still not finished (in terms of patio) but used only concrete, no water tile, etc so it didn't have the same higher level look as the ones I had seen with the other contractor. Anyway, we haven't seen his price yet, but when we told him we wanted to be between $65k-$90k, he seemed to infer that he could do what we wanted. Thoughts?