Many puppy mills are in unincorporated areas where there's no licensing, no inspection, nothing. & many states do not have teeth in their cruelty laws, they don't have the manpower to enforce cruelty laws, & so... puppy mills do anything they want. A very nice woman on another board said that her King Charles Cavalier Spaniel rescue group was given, if I remember right, 5 or 6 female dogs that weren't producing big enough litters often enough, & so their owner had culled them. Among their problems were heartworms, intestinal worms, uterine infections, infections around their backsides (KCCS dogs have long feathery coats, & if you don't brush them, they get nasty back there). In addition, they had had almost no contact with human beings & were very shy & frightened. Not knowing how complicated & miserable the situation was, I asked her why her group didn't try to get the breeder shut down. She said he was operating within the law, & that they didn't want to make him mad because if he stopped giving them his "culled" dogs, he'd probably throw them out on a country road to starve or freeze or be run over or be killed by coyotes. & politicians are in a tough position when it comes to passing licensing or other laws restricting puppy mills, because of the backlash reaction from people who become outraged by the idea of "restriction of capitalism" (racing businesses discarding or killing greyhounds is this area)or "restriction of individual rights" or "the right to own animals". or some such. It's especially tough in a state that has a lot of agricultural business, since the licensing or control of puppy mills is seen by ranchers as the first step to governmental interference in their cattle operations.

No, sorry I had stepped away for a few days as I was unwell, no one "drove" me away! I'll put my input in where and when I can, but I won't bring up anymore breeding's. I know you all want to blame ME for the over-pop in the shelters, but I've truly never seen locally a true *purebred* dog that was up for adoption! We've tried (and had a couple at one time 2 spayed female lab/shepard mix pups) but adoption around here you have to jump tbrough loops and pay fees with no garantee they'll pick you. I have kids, I've gotten a no way they're too young (at the time I had two and mine were 4.5 & 3.5 and we'd be fine w/a puppy but answer always no, over an acre almost 2 of land fenced so they can run while we're our with not good enough(this was a home inspection where we were turned down by shelters when we tried to help an unwanted dog, even a puppy where we'd pay a deposit for spay/neuter if not already altered, rescues of pure-breds are even more strict and basically have to give a pint of blood for a rescued dog (they usually don't get puppies.. generally what we saw we owners who should've been shot on site for what they'd done to these sweet innocent things! I went through very reputable AKC breeders, not puppy mills, or BYB which turn my stomach knowing the conditions in a PM and lack of knowledge w/a BYB. Someone said I do it for the money, honey.. I offer a lifetime guarantee w/my pets sold, and anyone close enough to bring a puppy back to me even middle of the night... should they be very concerned about something going on with the Pup and I'll take it to MY vet's and eat the Bill (I won't pay costs should they go to their own vet however as they had the option to bring it to me!) I raise my dogs & Puppies on good wholesome food, no junk kibble. Icelandic Salmon Oil, Nu-Vet Powder/tabs(treats) for their long term health and add joint plus as they get older as a "just in case!" The nursing/whlping Moms are supplemented with scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, steak, venison, salmon,what ever left-overs we're having that's aren't "bad/unhealthy" (think years ago Dogs LIVED off table scraps and they lived long healthy lives.. longe before"kibble" started! - which is a rarity - most try to feed some of "lesser quality/cheaper brands"/ wevfeed Merrick Whole Goods to the Puppies, and Merrick Before Grain Salmon generallu.. but have switched it up w/ other BG Flavors.. etc and are soothed by music and me (and/or hubby who works a full-time job to pay for things because a GOOD and PROPER Breeder makes little or none, and I've even lost income making sure everything is properly cared for w/ my OWN dog as well as puppies brought to me, but I brought them into this world, carefully and they're MY responsibility and I stand BY it! I offer micro-chipping as a service, but am seriously considering making it part of my program unless someone objects! Then that's their choice! The place I got my Shiba's from was VERY helpful in helping me learn even more (every day I take as a new learning process!) in pampering my own babies as well as making sure THEIR babies also reap the benefits of it all! J (who's glad she came out of lurking mode even if my choices don't make everyone happy.. I've learned I can't make even 1/2 the people.. I am who I am and do what I do. And AM a Pet Owner don't make my animals live outside in Kennels like most kennels do, they're part of our family and are treated as such with hugs, kisses, lovin', and lots of care' 2

Hoo Boy!!! quirkyquercus said" "Instead my problem is a lot of people are such chickenlivers, they feel they must have a guard dog. And a mean one. An they may maintain their dog to do that job much like a training some herding dogs to do that task. Only in suburbia, guard dogs are a liability." My two are guard dogs first, and family pets second. They can be both. With proper training. Oh, yeah---I also have guns, large knives, and some home made instruments most folks are shocked when they see them. I doubt the 'chickenliver' term applies to me. My dogs protect the house when we are gone---there is a rather high burglary/home damage crime rate at times in my area. I do not need them to guard when I am home----I am perfectly capable of that.(Wink) Now---about the original question. Seems to me many folks have it right---education and life styles. Hound dogs have always been kept in groups for hunting---a favorite sport in much of the western/southern US---so having 6-20 dogs around was quite common. If they were not your dogs, they were a neighbors. Hunting with dogs farther north was less popular---meaning fewer dogs per capita. Breeding/fighting animals has been going on for thousands of years. The Romans pitted men and beasts fighting for the viewing pleasure of the citizens. Customs are different in different countries---eating dogs is customary in some cultures. All these cultures have migrated to the US---bringing their customs with them. In many countries, killing weak/malformed pups is necessary/common---not enough food for all the litter. Many Americans pride themselves on taking the best care possible of their pets. Physically that is quite true. Behaviorally, it is very often miserable. There are many more neurotic dogs in the US than most other countries, IMHO. And, yes, I have been in other countries---Germany, England, and Scotland----to back up my opinion.

Runswalken, can't you read????? What would I turn this person in for??? What specific law is being broken?? Huh? Please cite the specific law. Go back to Meghane's post where she says - "There is no law against overbreeding dogs, so "turning her in" won't accomplish anything except a very strained work environment and probably the end of a friendship...but breeding dogs is not against any law.." What would turning this person in to animal control or the city accomplish?? It's not against the law to overbreed animals - it's a moral issue, but animal control or the city, the last time I heard, don't deal with moral issues. I do not condone what this person is doing - if I did I wouldn't have started this post in the first place.