If you get gifts from Toys R Us and do not send a receipt, she cannot return them. I would continue to send them, personally. Christy

Kmttsmom, I stopped sending gifts to the younger children the first year we were estranged and I learned that my daughter was throwing them out, not giving them to the children.

I do continue to send checks to the older children but I know they are not getting them as they are never cashed.

On another site, I received a suggestion to keep sending cards to the little ones but keep duplicates of the cards to be saved for the younger ones to be given to them when they turn 18. I copy the sentiment I wrote on the card I send to the duplicate card and then put the duplicates in a package in my safe deposit box with instructions the packages be given to the younger ones when they turn 18.

The older ones will soon be 18 and I will be able to contact them directly, but there are several years before the younger ones reach that age.

I think the suggestion of a duplicate card is a good idea. Perhaps you could take the money that you would spend on a gift and set up a savings account with it for you Grandchildren. You could put it in a CD when they turn 18 that doesn't mature for a while so that maybe they could have a nice little amount in a few years.

Duplicate cards is a nice idea. Things will change when they are older, they will start to see their mother for who she is and think about you.

If they have "evidence" that you thought of them all those years, via the saved cards, then they will know they were loved and cared for.

Everyone starts to think about where they came from at some stage or their lives, its important to know these things.

These all sound like wonderful ideas. I think I will do the duplicate card.

Also, instead of sending gifts, I will take the cash and set up a trust fund or CD. Something that I know their mother won't ever be able to touch. I can't wait until they turn 18 and see how their mother deprived them of loving grandparents because of her own selfish pride. I am a big believer in "what goes around, comes around" and someday my daughter will get what's coming to her.

Sorry if I sound bitter and vindictive, but it is hard to get past the hurt and anger. My daughter recently got remarried, and everyone in my family received an invitation and went knowing that I was intentionally left out. THAT HURT! It was like they approved of how she was treating me.

My own parents were the ones who told me that I did the right thing by telling her to stand on her own two feet. (She was mooching off of family members to pay her bills because neither she, nor the deadbeat she was living with, would hold a job for more than 90 days) They kept encouraging me to talk to her about it. They would not shut up until I took action because they were tired of it. They told me that, as a mother, it was my responsibility to take care of it.

As a result, I became the family scapegoat who is taking the brunt of what "the family" wanted taken care of. Does the words "dysfunctional" ring a bell here?

My daughter hates me now and my family claims they are innocent bystanders who are "caught" in the middle of a mother/daughter battle.

Perhaps you could take the money that you would spend on a gift and set up a savings account with it for you Grandchildren.

That's the first thing I thought of when I read the post. This, along with the duplicate cards, will certainly tell them that you love them and have thought of them often.

Another suggestion is to publish messages in their local newspaper. I know during the holidays, our paper runs ads for you to wish someone a Merry Christmas or you can buy Happy Birthday ads in the personals. Clip them & add them to copies of cards & I think the savings account is a great idea.

But... if you think your gifts may be the only ones your grandchildren are receiving on their b-days, you may want want to continue to send gifts even knowing that you may never get any credit for them. It is your grandchildren's b-day and it's nice to think that a child will get some sort of toy on their birthday especially if, as it sounds, there may not be money there to buy presents otherwise. It shouldn't just be about who takes or gets the credit, but about making a child feel happy on his/her birthday.

Kids need a gift or two on thier b-days. A $10-20 toy every year is not going to amount to that much. Of course, if you have the money to really invest/save something for them, do that too, but don't skimp on their childhood.

Send a gift. If the mother doesn't give it to them or passes it off as her own, that's her fault and you can't really control that. But, at least you did your part as a grandparent of sending a gift.

You're thoughts are the same as mine. It continued to be heart breaking when I mailed my Grandson packages and my daughter wouldn't even let me know when they or if they arrived. I also worried me about "what was said" about me at the time. It seemed a great opportunity for him to ask about me and I didn't want her to have that as a time to talk about me in a derogatory manner. Not that any time would be good-it's just that I started thinking about the possible "scenes" and how they could be playing out. Also ,same as you, he might not even know they were from me...So, I decided not to mail any more gifts. I started a savings account for him and put money in for birthdays and holidays that I usually had brought presents. Then, I sent a card addressed to him saying "happy whatever" and that for his present I had added money to his savings account.
that way, even if she doesn't continue to let him have his cards, he will know I do get him something and love him. Plus, it makes me feel better than giving a gift that I never even know if he gets or who she says it's from.
That may work for you. Unfortunately, it doesn't make us feel better about the loss of those memories being made...
For me, the really sad part is I hate to see my children make mistakes that may come back later and "bite them." Explanation: when he sees her treating me this way he has got to wonder if that is the normal way to treat your Mother...which is very, very bad and I hate the thought of her going through that...examples we show our children are so easily followed, especially the "bad ones."
I hope this idea helps you ...I do know how you feel and I am so sorry.

Oh wow! Love the message in the newspaper idea! I will add that to the list.

I cannot continue sending presents/cash not knowing for sure that it is being used for the kids.

I'd rather wait until they are 18 (unless she poisons them against me) then I can make contact and give them all their cards, clippings, and "gifts" I've been saving over the years.

Ladies, just remember the old adage "what goes around, comes around" It will happen to our children someday. Just wait and see.

carla35,
I understand your initial thoughts, it's probably like reading a vindictive horror story where you wonder how the criminal could be so mean and cruel...after all what did the victim ever do to deserve that?!?
There are not a lot of things in life that I can honestly say you have to experience to understand. Most can be observed, and with empathy understood. This is so painful, so intertwined with your entire being that the pain cannot even be adequately described much less understood without experiencing it.
The reason it is important how we are perceived is because we've already been so misunderstood that now we are super aware of anything we say or do that could possibly be misconstrued by our children. Who by the way, in my case and I image most of the others, are extremely critical of their mothers (for whatever reason. There again in my case it wasn't because the apple didn't fall far from this tree, but it did fall really close to their father's tree.
Which I do take some blame for because I stayed with him until they were all grown and out of college. My mistake.
Why do we hate the fact our families continue their life and relationships with our children that we do no get to experience...it's not that we don't want our children and family to have a continued relationship, it's that they have no concern for our pain or how we feel being left out. I worry about that a lot because my extended family has always been so dysfunctional. They have always had an honorary scapegoat to dissect at all gatherings where one or more people did not attend. So, my children are aware of that fact and the fact I never participated in their gossip. So, once again it appears my impact didn't have the influence their father's did.
About the "what goes around-comes around." You are right -often it does, and often that is the way some people seem to learn and the only way they seem to learn. I think what was meant was not intended to be cruel however, it was meant once again as; you only know how it feels when you yourself experience it. No, we don't wish any of our children any pain, but we do wish there was a way they could understand how much we hurt. The damage my own children have inflicted to my heart can never be repaired. Honestly, I have missed so many important moments because I didn't have an invitation, that and their ability to be so cruel just amazes me-who are they? Yes, I did help raise them, but they are nothing like me.
Why do I see them as cruel? Because they know when one of my daughters died a big part of my heart died with her and I was never the same. When I lost my daughter my other children saved me, I went on for them. They saw first hand the encompassing, unconditional and undying love I have for each one of my children, and now I am faced with the loss of all of my children. Yes they have and continue to be cruel to me...
I hope you can keep an open mind when you read this, a lot of people who respond can't

A mother's love should not be unconditional. My sister has unconditional love for her children, but I don't for mine. Unconditional covers to much, things like molesting/raping a minor daughter, allowing the molester back in the home, emotionally abusing toddlers. These are the things my sister has allowed because of her unconditional love. My son had 3 sweet little babies, then stayed with the mother after she threw one of them across the room because he cried to much. I don't know if I still love my sons or not, but I sure don't respect them as men. I love those sweet babies I had, but I don't know the men they are today and I never want to open the front door and find one of them standing there.

stargazzer,
I really don't think that your sister has unconditional love for her children. I think she is lazy...Love means setting healthy boundaries and protecting and insisting they also protect their children. I think we can love our children unconditionally without approving of everything they do or say, after all no one is ever perfect but the idea I thought was to set those limits and boundaries and protect the little ones while doing so with love.

I send cards but with no money in them. I want the grandkids to know I love them but they are old enough to call me , which they don't do. I am sure its because they are afraid to go against their Mother, who is my daughter. So, acknowledging them and letting them know I am thinking of them I will continue to do but they are not getting money as a reward for bad behavior

This post is so sad. I don't have grandchildren, and I have a close relationship with all my children, so maybe I am not the best person to offer advice. However, I do think the duplicate cards are a good idea. As for gifts, I'd set up a bank account or trust for each one, with you in control of that account. Some day, they will have access to that account, and realize that you never forgot them. You could send a small gift to the children, but you'll never know if their mother gives it to them or not. Of course no one wishes that their estranged children will someday find that their own children treat them the same way, but it can happen. Loving grandparents are a wonderful thing in a child's life, to deny the children that unconditional love is hurting them as much as it hurts you. And remember, children live what they learn, if the example the mother sets for them is to be cruel and disrespectful to her parents, it is likely that her children may treat her the same way. There are no easy answers or solutions in a case like this, unfortunately.

Carla 35- as the saying goes, don't judge another until you have walked a long time in their shoes. The people posting on this page are not selfish or vindictive - if we were, we would not air our feelings and emotional pain on being cut out of our family members' lives. We are struggling with the concept of showing love/affection for children who are blameless and whom we love against being taken advantage of or being maligned by those children's' parents. If your family life is perfect, then great for you. But many of us out here are struggling with the pain of loving children whose parents have decided to cut us out of their lives. So unless you have been in this terrible position, Shut Up and find another website.

HELLO everyone. I just found this forum. When I read a few posts about a mom that has a very good relationship with their children, it made me feel very bad. I too feel this Isn't the THE forum for them.

I am recently estranged from my two kids, son 32, daughter 28. Doing. It's been a difficult and painful 13 years, since it first started. But, I kept trying. Then, came my grandsons, 8, 6, 3. It's extremely difficult, after you developed a really close relationship with them.

I have been sending presents for the boys. After all, they are not to blame. They SHOULDN'T miss out in their childhood. But, it's so painful, knowing I can't see them, and may not see them ever again. When I sent Christmas presents, then Jan. Birthday present, it took me weeks to get over just that. I was so sad. Just makes me angry, why we parents have to go through all of this. When we were such great, loving parents. Just to be treated so badly by our kids.

We love our grandchildren so much, but it will not change our sons wifes hate for us. We've seen it before. We both cry,

I take pictures of anything i send, if its a card, what i write in it, and envelope, all gifts in a display, then wrapped, and boxed, and label at Fed X , delivery confirmation. at Xmas i had my husband take a pic of xmas sacks whhhrre he left them at their door, or inside shed. this way ill print and put in a envelope for future proof we sent to each one.

my son is following his partners lead (3rd party action towards us and he follows) they are not married and most likely convinced him its better to not due to tax benefits. that is not my concern thats his life but canceling his sister first, then attacking my husband and ending with me is just so painful. but God allows what he allows for his reasons. God didnt do this, satan is using him as a toool and its Gods hand that will bring him back. we will welcome ooen arms to him, her and our grandbabies. trusting Gods love and his ways can be a challenge but one God has helped me thru. life with my daughter and her family and my husband is full but it took time to grt here. i speak to all families that are divided , trust God to help you. seek his word. Exodus 14:14, Romans 8:28, jeremiah 29:11 its not a magic bullet, But God will not forsake you. he may not fix things but He will love you and strengtgen you.

How do you comment on any posts?

Anne, I agree with u! Boy to have a conversation with someone who actually understands !

Gosh, that that’s a hard one, and so will be my advice. Unfortunately i am in a similar situation. in my opinion, if you dont have a relationship with your daughter, you wont have any kind of relationship with her kids. its a package deal.

Haven't seen or talk to my granddaughter in 10 months because my son and his wife cut me off from communicating with her. It all started because I asked if I could see my granddaughter more often and take her places like the others grandparents did. I was told that I was crazy for keeping tabs on what the other grandparents were able to do with my granddaughter. What's even more hurtful is that my son and his wife call my ex-husband's girlfriend Mom and they tell my granddaughter to call her grandma. Their 2nd child was born 9 months ago and I still have not met her.

My oldest granddaughters 7th birthday is coming up and I'm not sure to send her a gift or not. The only reason I'm debating is because last year my daughter sent her niece a birthday gift even though her brother would not allow her to see her as well. My son called me and said to go pick up the gift or he would throw it in the trash because they didn't want or need anything from her.

What do y'all think?