Some ppl will *hide* behind anything now,won't they?

We have a puppy mill about seven miles from us and it's not run by amish. There was a big thing in tv showing the story. These people have over 200 dogs plus all the puppies. There trying to do some kinds of fines on people that have more then so many dogs. The man they interviewed said, they couldn't afford it and don't know what would become with all the dogs. None house broke and only people they've been around are the high school kids the hire to come in feed and walk them. He made a big day that they hire someone to walk them 15 min. a day.
One local tv station has really been going after these mills.

Amish - salt of the earth? Hardly. They buy Standardbreds from the track use them until they are broken and send them to slaughter. They are just a middleman though and lengthen the lives of those horses a few hard years.
They are like everyone else in one way though - looking for a way to make money. Raising puppies pays well if you can do it on a big scale.
The mennonites and German Brethren around here don't neuter their animals - registered or not. The neighbor's ugly mutt has had litter after litter.
Even pretty puppies need to come from somewhere. Not many people can raise puppies in their home. I don't see the harm if someone wants to raise dogs, but do it fairly to all concerned and take care of your animals.

And puppy-mill puppies are sold at pet stores. Please, never buy a puppy from a pet store, you just encourage these practices.

Right, never buy from a puppy store. I went to a breeder for a specific type of dog (Wheaten terrier) and she imported one from Ireland, where the government strictly controls dog population. Females are only allowed a certain number of litters in her lifetime and must have a "rest" between pregnancies. The dog cost me $2000 but that made me feel I was helping the animal kingdom in a small way, by not supporting any puppy nill, By the way, Amish have a high rate of alcoholism. Not as "happy" as they make out.

Wow, I wasn't aware that the amish abused animals. I have always been fascinated by their life style. I guess I need to rethink and get more educated on their ways.

Another thought- This is a perfect example why we should look to Jesus,(who is the corner stone of the christian faith) and how HE lived his life, and not to mankind. Man will always disappoint you because all of us fail at sometime or other.

My father in law use to tell me, (when I complained about people in the church and how they lived) Just because a car is parked in the garage, doesn't mean there is gas in the tank. Meaning that just because people claim to be what they are, does not mean are they being truthful, or that their claims are justified.

I love animals but this happens far to much and not only with the Amish...People can be mean. That is a fact of life. I have gotten to the point that I am not surprised at peoples meanness but am more surprised when they do good.

"They poach a lot of deer in some areas too."

In all fairness, I can't prove that but that's what I've been told.

I doubt it is the teachings of the religion itself that are at fault here.

Just fallible human beings making mistakes in judgement.

That being said, we are not supposed to discuss religion or politics here. Maybe the Animal Debates or Hot Topics forums would be a more appropriate place to talk about this (although I enjoy the KT group much more!).

I like rthummer's car/gas tank analogy -- I'm going to borrow that one!

I went into a puppy store in a mall in CA last weekend. They had no other animals except puppies, from chihuahua to St. Bernard. Must have been 40 or more. I asked where they came from, and the sales person said that they come from the Midwest. Then she went on to tell me how they travel in comfort in climate controlled vehicles. They looked healthy, but I would not buy a dog there.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with everything said here. Abusing any living creature is just wrong. I'm offering this not as an excuse but as a possible explanation for their actions. These people have chosen to live as they did in another era. An era when animals were considered to be possessions and were treated as such. Humane treatment of animals is a relatively new thing. Not evertything in the "good old days" was good.

There are people of all races and creeds with mixed up priorities. I live in "Amish country" and have never personally seen a puppy mill - but I surely believe they exist. Puppy mills are all over our nation. It is a shame that we tend to lump one group of people as having the same traits as 'some' of their fellow Brethren.
I have met many Amish I respect, and some I don't at all. Some treat their animals, children and loved ones like gold. Some treat them like property.
Don't we all know(of)someone like that?
I love animals of all kinds.
My father said something to me that really made me pause and think. He said the Amish have notoriously been a farming community. They see all animals as livestock. Even puppies. I cringe to think any animal has been mistreated. But, he went on to say that while all animals deserve humane treatment, most people look a blind eye to where their food has come from. And how that animal led its life. (He was a farmer, too)
I don't know where exactly I am going with this, I just try to look at things as openly as I can and still be objective.
I say let's continue to educate and fight for those that cannot fight for themselves. (human and animal alike)

I have a friend who helps ferrel cat's. She bought a barn on some land in an Amish area. She let an Amish farmer use the her barn in exchange for feeding the cats. One day she asked the Amish man where his dog was because she didn't see him. He said the dog barked too much so he shot it in the head. She told him their arrangement was off and found someone else to feed the cats.
Donna

My last vacation was to Lancaster and I'm shocked by what some are saying here. The only slightly negative behaviour was the older woman who works in the Zook's fabric store not being so friendly. But their horses looked well, the dogs that I saw were leashed in public. But then I was in the touristy areas. Even the animals in the Sight n Sound looked happy performing. Never would have guessed.

Not all seem to have it easy. Many were packing up and leaving for Ohio, especially after the shootings. Because it brought attention on them some visitors took it upon themselves to 'visit' them in their houses by just walking in, uninvited.

From what I understand there are several different types of Amish and a lot do have electricity and drive vehicles. So I wouldn't classify their actions into one.

pris and salgal-- well-said. And zeetera, I think you are thinking of the Mennonites who do use electricity and drive cars.

When I was in India, I was shocked at an old man driving a bullock cart, because he was beating his oxen to get him to move faster. I yelled something at him and he just stared hard at me, and probably had no clue as to why the crazy white woman was yelling at him. One cultural (not religious) tenant I don't understand is the seeming respect for all creatures, yet the casual acceptance of ill-treatment of farm animals. I guess when you're hungry, you do what YOU think is necessary. Still, it was hard to see.

I live in Amish country and I can tell you that they consider animals to be disposable. Vique.

In the limited experience that I've had of Amish people, I've found that they respected their animals and treated them well.

They work them hard - but they work hard, themselves.

ole joyful

I was born and raised in Amish country. My ancestors have been here for 300 years. My grandfather was a Mennonite and I can say the Amish are the cruelest people in our country in their attitude on pets. They do not like animals pure and simple and feel the "English" which is what they call the rest of us, are nuts treating our pets as we do. I thought this post was about the expose on Nightline last night. Go to their website and see more details. It is so horrendous you can't help but cry. The cages on the top row have poop that falls on the cage beneath it. The b-tches breed and breed till they die. They rescued one yesterday and it could not walk. Amish will call the Humane society and tell them to come and get an old breeder past her prime or he will shoot it. Last year an Amish guy shot 80 dogs point blank because they had fleas and he was too cheap to get it taken care of. His BIL living next door shot 20. If you love animals as I do write to PA reps. and Gov. Rendell and have these places put out of business. Last night they said there are so many puppy mills that people don't know about because the Amish stick sharp instruments down their dogs throats and de bark them. They are never groomed or EVER exercised. They are a product. They get no vet care and the pups are delivered by the Amish cutting them open w/o anesthesia and sewing them back up w/ twine. They showed the many incisions on the rescued dog who couldn't stand any more. It is BARBARIC!

Have several friends in Pennsylvania, who live and work around the Amish, and what Kathy says about them mistreating horses, is what I was also told. One of my friends raised horses and he absolutely would not sell them to the Amish. Vique is right. They do not treat their animals well. Because a horse looks like it is fed, doesn't mean that it is handled in a kind manner, and they are very expenable to them. That goes for all of their animals.

I have also known people in other religions who seemed to think it is okay to mistreat animals, despite being "big in church"...so not just talking about the Amish...unfortunately, it is all too common.

"They do not treat their animals well."

From what I've heard from friends who live in Amish country, they don't have much respect for their women, either.

People are people all over the world and some are not so nice. Many people use "I am a Christian, I wouldn't do that", as a defense mechanism when they are caught doing a dirty deed. All Christians are not like that.

Wow, I proof read my reply and I had left our the "not". I sure would have been in hot water if i had not caught it.