This is little off subject I think but Joan talking about making things with toilet paper rolls & oatmeal boxes made me think of all the fun I had making forts, school houses, or a fine house- all out of the refrigerator or appliance cartons. The ones we got were around a new appliance & had wood frame & heavy cardboard or maybe even lightweight paneling with reinforced corners. They did well in summer rains(I added some kind of roof) & in winter dad had gotten 1 for me to retreat to in the basement. I put 3-4 of them together on a vacant lot & "taught" school, played house with other neighborhood kids or fought off cowboys or Indians as we often changed which ones we wanted to to be. There was a tree on the lot, so we could escape the fort & go up in the tree & be lookouts, of course the lake was right below so we had to watch"on land & sea" it was quite a job & we were very serious about it. Too bad I didn't have my camera yet! I was shy but always road after the appliance truck & asked if I could have the crate, I think we ended up with 4 on the lot, they were very heavy but delivered right to spot I wanted.So disappointed when torn down & new house went up in there. Dad really started something fun by bringing that 1st 1 home tho. Jan

Ok- This comes from a teacher point of view as well as someone who has a degree in child development. You can take it for what it is worth: In Classrooms (like daycares and preschools and K room) kids are required to pick up at least two sometimes three times a day. The reasoning being that a. other kids play with the toys and the deserve to start fresh too b. kids can't think in clutter very well and neither can teachers. c. safety in that you can't walk without tripping etc. also is part of the reasoning here. I carry this into my house to some degree. I have three kids 5, 3, and 1+. Two boys and a girl. I let them play with what they want and they can play with how they want provided they are not taking away from each other-- playing nice. And now my home and my theory in practice--- We pick up daily - once before nap I expect everything to be picked up and once in the evening before their father gets home. If everything is picked up and if their father is not home yet, they can watch a video. This works great for my son who is a tvholic. The exceptions to picking up completely are this: 1. if they have some creation before nap- a tent house, a train world, polly pocket home whatever they can leave it out until dinner time, as long as it's out of the way. Not on their bed at nap time for example. At dinner time though, things are picked up. 2. If it is on the train table. We bought a big train table with the buckets at the end of the table. I rotate toys including what is in the train table buckets. - blocks, legos, little people, etc at any given time are in the train table buckets. IF they set up this elaborate train set or a great lego building, as long as it is on the train table, they can leave it there. The train table toys are usually building toys that typically get moved and torn down and rebuilt daily so those change pretty quickly and get put up to make room for other buildings. As for sorting out toys into the right bins daily- I don't do that. We have a big toy box in the front room where they play. Some toys are behind the couch in the plastic shoe boxes. Polly Pockets, etc - those things with small pieces. Those are the toys that they typially pull out from behind the couch, open the box and play with them in their room or on their bed- the little pieces typically get put back into the right box. But I don't worry about it. When we pick up, whatever is on the floor get thrown into the toy box. The kids help me pick up and if they want I do let them put the small pieces in the right bin, but if I'm helping I grab and toss. And because I rotate toys- once a week or every two weeks I dump everything out and the kids and put toys up, resort as needed, exchange toys. This is when the polly pocket shoe that got thrown in the toy box gets put back with it's mate in the right bin. Etc. I have also gotten rid of many toys. As I write this however I can think of train things I need to get rid of because my kids have never really played with it. Sigh. I kept it thinking one of the other kids would like it but so far- no luck. It really is that simple and really that complicated. I just make the time to rotate toys. Everything centers around that. When we rotate toys everything gets sorted out perfectly. Because we rotate toys not everything is out at once and that makes it easier to a. clean house b. pick up every day c. control how many toys are out with small pieces d. organize and make sure everything is in the right bin. As for your daughter dragging things out of the house - we take things out to the car but they stay in the car. When we go in the store- the toys stay in the car. As for all of her flat type creations- I also bought an art portfolio. IT's like a big envelope. I let my son keep all of his papers in there. He keeps every paper he touches. They all go in there. It sits at the end of his bed. When it is stuffed I go through it- sometimes alone, sometimes with him. It works for us. Big papers and small papers go in here. But only paper. We have also done some things like I sat down and whipped up some bags for toys. My two older kids love to fill things with things. A small bin may have five cars, three dinosaurs, four crayons and sixteen pieces of paper. They love to just stuff things in things. I made some bags. I whipped up bags and this makes it easy to carry things around. If my boy's snowbear needs crayons for the day (becaue my boy is like your daughter with an animal whose needs change) - then snowbear puts the crayons in the snowbear bag and off we go. I have probably 10 bags designated for things- blocks, small dolls, etc. I have maybe another 10 bags with drawstrings for anything. They just get thrown in their toybox empty at the start of two weeks and stay filled until it's time to rotate toys. So- based on my usual long winded response here are my thoughts for you: 1. Can you designate a place as a compromise- train table creations are ok, otherwise they go down? Can you set a time that they have to pick up? Daily? I do it when their dad comes home so they know exactly what their schedule is. Can you do it on a set day? Every other day everything is totally picked up? I lean to a daily pick up at a set time so it is routine. I agree that it is the process at this age - the process of making the creation is important not the creation itself. 3. Can you provide your daughter some place for her creations? This ties into question one but also for her small books for blueberry? for the small things he has to have? A bag? An oatmeal box with a string tied to it? an art portfolio? 4. Do you have to have all of their toys out all of the time? And after having said all of that- I think what you are really looking for is not the organizing help but more of the parenting help. Do you allow your children to make creations and leave them? And How do you tackle this as a mother? I'm not sure I helped at all. What I would say to you as a teacher if you came to me is Go for it- encourage the creativity. When you see them no longer playing with a toy or creation show them how to take it down and put the components up. Or if they can no longer play wiht a type of toy because all the pieces are spread apart and put in wrong places, help them sort them out. You are the mother and you know best. Ginger

There are those who would say that step-parents DON'T have any rights when it comes to the stepkids....not even a right to an OPINION about what should happen with them. They feel that EVERYTHING that concerns the stepkids should be handled by the bio-parents. Another forum I used to belong to was much this way...so I left! But really, there is a pretty big contingent of folks out there who would agree that steps have ZERO rights when it comes to their stepkids. They call step-parents "legal strangers" or something like that...which really never made any sense to me. However, my opinion is that you DO have some rights. You have the right to be respected, for your home/belongings to be treated appropriately, for cooperation (or at least attempted understanding) from your spouse. Now, you have the CHOICE to enforce these things with an iron fist, or you can try to get SS to come to these realizations on his own, or with your help a little more gently. That can make all the difference. Get him excited about a hike. Get some maps, plan the trail. Get a book that shows the local wildlife you might see. Let him pick out the ingredients for some homemade granola, and let him help you make it. Get him a cheap compass for the trip (cheap at Eddie Bauer!). It'll start to become his idea. That's the trick. Not only for stepkids, but for all kids. I find myself trying to come up with creative ways to get things that I want done ALL the time, with both bio and stepkids. Also, help him get excited about the baby. My stepkids were a little "removed" from the pregnancy, also because of the long distance. But when they were here, they went to ultrasounds with us, and helped pick out stuff for the room. They poured over baby name books with me. They were 10 and 13 at the time. They now both have VERY close relationships with their baby sister (who is now 5). None of our kids (his, mine & ours) call each-other "1/2" or "step"...they are just brothers & sisters. So it is do-able, but it takes some work. If you handle this sticky situation the right way, you will be the "cool bonus Mom", instead of the "evil step monster". I have a fantastic relationship with my stepkids. We've had a few little bumps in the road, but nothing we couldn't work through.

Thank you pattyxlynn. I really appreciate that someone else notices exactly what I've been seeing in this thread. I certainly can't fault folks around here for lacking persistence. I have listened, reconsidered and still the answer is the same. KSWL, thank you too. What seems to be hard for folks to grasp is DH and I like the shape of the table. We don't see it as odd or winnebago. We see the half octagon as very useful and practical. That's why we are willing to shell out the bucks to get a custom made table. It works much better than anything "off the shelf" could. hollysprings, I often appreciate your contributions, but your last comment goes too far. To go from a discussion of the shape of a table in a nook, to implying there is something fundamentally wrong with my lifestyle, suggesting that our 7 years spent designing our custom home which perfectly meets our needs lacks thoughtfulness and quality of analysis, and impugning my ability to entertain and properly hostess guests in our home, really goes too far. And I just don't see how you can consider the suggestion, that we rebuild a 2 story bay window just to use a table you think is of appropriate shape, a useful one. You, and apparently others, are really missing my fundamental point. The existing table, even with it's scrap lumber material, roughshod assembly, and painted finish works fabulously well for us. It is why we are willing to pay the money to get a custom made table for the spot. If we were willing to compromise on the functionality, we'd just hit some pottery barn back room and be done with it. But we are not. So dear co-posters, don't get me wrong. I do appreciate the time and effort and all the comments and inputs that everyone has made, but for the 8th and final time, the shape of the top has been decided. It's done. We like it. We're going with it. La fine. Thanks sixtyohno, didn't want your kind words to get lost in the latest shuffle. I will certainly have a good discussion with our woodworker about table top finish to make sure it's durable. He has a couple of boys he's raising, so he's very familiar with that requirement. This post was edited by AnnieDeighnaugh on Sat, Nov 29, 14 at 20:21