I love both and have both. The ones that I really love are all natives. My pastures are full of Rosa californica bushes. In bloom, they're overwhelmingly intoxicating! Even the foliage has the same fragrance. I make incredible rosehip preserves out of them after the first frosts. So, they're multifunctional! ;~) Everyone would recognise them as a rose. They'd just call the others pretty flowers, if they even saw them. My local species are in my favorites category for orchids. The delicate beauty of the Cyp. californicum. The more exotic and ephemeral Calypso bulbosa. And even the Epipactis gigantea. A lot of it is "The grass is always greener..." or I want what I don't have! ;~) When my mom was in Asia, she had armfulls of orchids delivered a few times a week. They were cheap and common. You'd have to be listed in Forbes to have that done here! I can, now, go out and gather wild roses by the hundreds. If I don't bleed to death first! ;~) I've never seen so many and such viscious thorns on anything! When I pick the hips, I have buckets worth of them. It's like the people in hot/tropical zones wishing that they could easily grow Pleurothalids, while their Bulbos, Catts and Dends are covered in flowers outside most of the year. Or the rest of us frantically hauling our orchids in before a freeze. Something that the roses and other common overlooked plants need. Whitecat, The rose was sacred to both Aphrodite and Venus. So, I guess that you're in good company.

The Muttville show is a hoot! The bend in Sarah's body resisting the treat says "kid" in spades - staying where she was told to stand but no way going for the liverwurst. You should put her in mime classes, Saucy! Since this seems to be an anything-goes thread, this photo was in my mailbox this morning. Mitch asked for my opinion before he sends it to the sitter. "let me know if this portrait is attractive before I send it to the poor girl." It's not my fave for some reason. Can't decide if the expression is insipid or Mona-Lisa profound. Not sure about that angle either, like the photographer was on a chair... Here is a link that might be useful: opinion on this portrait

If you wonder how the French got all that stuff for the Louvre, have you ever thought about the British Museum? Or, the Vatican Museum! Both are loaded with artifacts from "other places" than where they are on display. All those explorers were busy carting stuff back home! The trick to seeing the Mona Lisa (in the Louvre) up close without a crowd is to have a museum pass. About 30 minutes before closing, go straight in and head to the Mona lisa. Everyone else is on their way out and you get the painting mostly to yourself. Then, go back the next day to see everything else. Cameron

Dale, So you are one of the lucky ones to get VENUS FLY TRAP. It's sold out currently with a waiting list. VFT is something special, althought I haven't seen it in person. I'm struggling not to purchase any more expensive daylilies until I see what my previous crosses produce. I'm going to let those crosses point me in certain directions. I should have a couple thousand seedlings bloom next year. I'm already excided about a few because the fans are so large and dark green. This without watering and feeding. We will see....... I'm going to see both Jamie and Joel this weekend at the Mid West Hybridizer's meeting. They are a pretty good group. Charlie