I think the prefinished wood doesn't provide as durable as a finish. Perhaps there is a product that is as good as the onsite poly coating but haven't seen it. The prefinished wood in my brothers house started to show wear almost immediately.

But doing it onsite does create a terrible mess as well as added work.

Im not sure if it this is possible but I would think the best of both worlds would be to get prefinished planks and then have a few coats of poly added on top of it. That way you dont have to deal with the mess of sanding but you get the smooth finish of the added layers of poly.

I have planking (though not in the kitchen) but have put in pre-finished in others' houses. The pre-finished surface is very hard and durable. They generally use processes than can only be done in the factory rather than on site.

The biggest reason for getting pre-finished is that it doesn't need to be re-finished. In high traffic areas, which every bit of a kitchen usually is, especially if people wear shoes, animals click click around, etc., on-site finishes should be redone every 8 years or so to protect the wood. Some of the hardest finishes can go quite a bit longer, especially if your kitchen doesn't really get that much traffic, but you want to re-finish before the scratches are in the wood rather than the finish layer.

Re-finishing is a hassle and generates lots of very fine dust, which would then get in the cabinets and be all over your kitchen.

On the other hand, some people just go with the patina and never re-finish their floors.

If you have a less than stellar subfloor, an advantage of sanding on site is that you can get a more even surface. The variations are evened up in the sanding.

But those are the only practical reasons I can think of. There is some difference in looks and feel, but that's just an issue of what you like best.

I just had site finished HW put in this week. YMMV, but this was *not* especially messy or especially more troublesome than a prefinished floor would have been.

But maybe it was because the people I had were *good*. They had a dustless sanding system, and it was pretty much true to claims. The finish they put down was Traffic, which is water based. It took about a day and a half to install the floor. Then about a half a day to sand and apply the first coat. That took about 4 hours to dry enough to walk on. Then the next day they applied another coat, which took another 4-5 hours to dry enough to walk on.

I will be getting a third coat later, after all the construction is done

I thought a lot about the prefinished, but they didn't really have what I wanted. I didn't much like the idea of the micro-bevels that seem to be mandatory with solid prefinished wood.

Ultimately I think this is a matter of taste.

I asked about using prefinished and then poly-ing over it, and was told that if you do that (without sanding, presumably) the extra finish would likely peel off, kind of like a piece of sticky tape.

The engineered HW we chose for my dining area wasn't my "perfect" choice, but we had to deal with some hefty levelling between original 1920s house and the later extension (probably added in the 70s) plus different types of subfloor, plus limited budget.

My first realistic choice (ie not wide planks or white pine, or matching the living room original floor with salvage and restoring both, all WAY out of our budget!) would actually have been a 1/2 or 3/4" solid prefinished, but because of the difference between subfloors we had to go with a thinner piece and wound up with a 3/8" engineered oak gluedown.

In the end, the one that we chose for colour, appearance and thickness reasons was also the cheapest of the contenders AND, unlike it's more expensive cousins, it had no bevelling, which matches the original floor in the living room better (they're not a perfect match - we didn't even try for that - but at least they don't compete with each other). So we kind of lucked out on that!

I figure that it has a long warrantee and even if it doesn't make it that long, at $1.96 psf it was cheap enough that we could justify re-doing it in 10 years if we have to. It looks fine so far - I fully expect it to ding here and there but I gather that even though it's thinner stock you can rescreen the finish, which is usually where most of the marks occur (ie it's the top layer which scratches rather than right down to the wood). So, we have some options if it gets tired looking.

HTH.

Divamum--What flooring brand did you choose?

We have site-finished oak. I didn't find it to be particularly messy either. Our floor company used sanders with vacuum bags. My next door neighbor just had hers sanded and re-finished after having them 10 years. She said she was amazed at how little dust she had.

We didn't like the beveled edges on the pre-finished floors and I wasn't too keen on having to keep them clean. Our floor is so smooth and everything cleans up so nicely.

my personal experience is this:

if i had anticipated the beating a pre-finished floor was going to take in the remodeling process i would have gotten unfinished and then finished at the end of the remodel

i guess i really wasn't clued in when my DB, the contractor, said increduously, the floors are pre finished?

that should have been a sign

then again we ran the floors under all cabinets, etc so they went in way before everything else

no matter how careful you are things are gonna get dinged

And post renovation? Dinging continues....my darling sil on christmas day wore heels, didn't think anything about it(why would one?) noticed a few days later all of these little pock marks, yep did a search at this wonderful website and learned not all that unusual.... funny thing never happened in my living room which has the same exact floor, installed 3 years ago

issues with fridge requiring weekly service intervention: seeing these dent-like marks in front, first one, assumed DS dropped something, then see another and then another; finally realize it is from the service guys pulling the fridge out, and yes it is on wheels, apparently the sideways motion is what was doing it

so, you can go either way in my mind because in the end, even with top grade wood you can still get dings or should i say *flavor* to the floor at some point

but, if i did it again, i'd do it unfinished

Definitely go with trhe real thing - on site finished will serve you better in the long run. And refinishing is not that messay. I had old hardwood floors refinished in an older house with very little mess. had hardwood put in the house we built - also not much mess. People get scared thinking about the sanding but the technology most companies use really limits the mess

prefinished hardwoods ARE the real thing berryberry. They just happen to be finished off site. Prefinished hardwoods are NOT engineered woods, they are real hardwoods.

In our case, we went with prefinished because our kitchen is our main traffic area and we couldn't have lived for whatever number of days while they finished them. We had to get through on that floor. So that was the prime consideration.

I will be selecting "site-finished" oak as opposed to factory-finished, mainly because I wanted the oak floor in the kitchen to match the original oak in the adjacent rooms. I was afraid the micro-bevel of the fac-finished wood wouldn't match it.

Pre-finished real wood floors are great - and they make them with micro-bevels so you don't have the grooves between the boards that the old style ones used to have. I went with Mirage flooring and I'm very pleased - yes they get dinged a little but so does site-finished flooring. Another advantage of pre-finished flooring is that you can do one room at a time without having to clear out everything on the entire floor.

I have site finished walnut in my bathroom and prefinished oak in my kitchen and dining areas. Clean-up is the same for both. I don't have any problems with the bevels - they are so small. I don't know what the finish is in the bathroom but it needs something better. There are stains from dropped Purrell as well as some other things. I don't have any of that in the kitchen. There sure are a lot of dings from dropped cans in front of the pantry though. The first one was sad - now I just say to myself - there goes another one! I am going to have to put a little rug there.
Sort of OT - we have 6 different floors on our first level (that doesn't include the site finished wood); prefinished oak, slate, tile, amtico, carpet and cork. My hands down favorite is the cork for all reasons except the beautiful factor and I think with a little design work that would happen. DH likes the amtico best.

niineta -- How does the cork clean up? I have a 4-year-old, so we're talking jelly on the floor, ketchup, syrup, etc. Sometimes spills don't get wiped up right away (once I get my new floors I will be hovering under my little one w/ a damp paper towel, but I can't speak for my husband). Can you scrub it, and what do you use to clean it with? Cork appeals to me for a lot of reasons! (now I have to go look up amtico -- no idea what that is!)

Thanks!
Chris

We had a prefinished 3/4" red oak Mirage solid hardwood floor installed in our kitchen and hallway during our kitchen remodel in July 2007. The floor is stunning--at least to us--and easy to care for. We recently had the rest of the lower level of our house and our upstairs hallway done in the same Mirage flooring. The only dents we have so far are those caused by workmen in the process of putting in a wooden staircase. The bevels don't bother me in the least, but I don't have any experience with the non-prefinished flooring. So far it is just so much easier to take care of than carpeting, vinyl, or tile, and it looks wonderful all the time. I am thrilled with it.

Just to be clear, it depends on your definition of "lots" of dust :) Yes, of course, they use dust extractors when they sand. Otherwise it would be unbearable! But there's still the very fine dust that's too fine for the extractor, as well as the bits that escape altogether. I guess I just have a really low tolerance for dust :)

I'd go for the finished on site as well. We had our floors done last year and the installer/refinisher used a dustless sanding system and the dust was incredibly, incredibly minimal. I also think that the benefit of having the floors installed and then later finished after everything else has been installed and plumbed and painted, etc, etc...will be much less hassle and work than stressing about trying to keep your new floors new while work is still progressing on top of them.

I should have added to my previous post about our prefinished Mirage flooring that it was done after the kitchen remodel was finished. Our contractor put 3/4" plywood under the appliances (except for the refrigerator) so that they would be level with the floor. I wouldn't advise having it put in at the beginning of the remodel because it will be at great risk of being damaged.

I also prefer the finished in place flooring. I know the lighter stained woods (like my oak) hold up for many years. I had my floor refinished when it was 13 years old. It's been 2 years since it was refinshed and it still looks brand new. My daughter has the newer type of prefinished floor in her 2 year old home. It's a darker finish and it looks terrible. I'm not sure if looks so bad because it's a prefinshed wood or because it's a darker stain, but she really hates it. She wants to remove it.

"We'll never use it again because mentally it is "fake" (despite being real wood) wood to us and the grooves make cleaning the floor just a bit more of a PITA. '

Exactly what I meant about the real thing. To me - even though these are wood, they aren't the real thing when I think of true hardwood floors

Thank you for all the advice-we had a wood floor redone about 10 years ago and it was a dusty, smelly mess- I swore I would never do it again, but it sounds like the machines have come a long way and overall is the better way to go. The bevel issue does concern me in that liquid could get more easily under the wood?
UGH-I really wanted 20 responses that said the pre-finished stuff goes in in a day and looks perfect 10 years later!-lol-time to get some quotes someone told me 6-7$ for 3/4 oak installed is a good price? I saw pre-finished Brazilian cherry- but I haven't seen it unfinished and finish on site-does it hold up as well as oak?thanks as always for the advise!

scootermom -
my cork cleans up easily with a wet cloth - all I have used so far. One day I found a 2 ft puddle on the floor - obviously from a leak somewhere. I thought to myself, 'better leave that there to show DH and see if he can figure out where the leak is.' Two days later while out I remembered it and was frantic to get home and see if the water had damaged the cork. The water was dried up and no problem with the cork. I haven't found the source of the puddle yet.
Back to wood floors -
We have a cabin built in 1949 with maple floors. If there was ever a finish on them it was before my time. In the 30 yrs we have had it I have never done anything to it but wash it with pinesol or spot wipe ups. It could stand to be refinished but we will be tearing the cabin down.
We have a bigger cabin on the same property built in 1930. The floors are oak planks secured with pegs. Some parts of the floor look new while the dining room could definitely stand a refinish. I have no idea what the finish is on this floor - again it was not in my time. As these floors are in houses on water with no air conditioning, they are subject to lots of humidity in the summer. Years of people and dogs have tracked in water that was not necessarily cleaned up - it just dried. Winter brings melting snow and wet clothes and boots all over the wood. I am not always there to see how people treat it.
I have heard that the old wood is much better than new wood. I don't know if site finished floors today could take that abuse and look good 78 years later. I baby the heck out of my bathroom floor. My prefinished kitchen and dining room floors are beautiful and I like them just as much as the site finished. For me it is all about the color and grain. Both clean up the same way.

nodirthere - my prefinished floors were installed in a few days with no mess and 7 years later look really good - not perfect, but really good. My brother's site finished floors are older but look much worse. Both are red oak.

Before dismissing prefinished floors, I suggest that you look at some Mirage floors or another comparable brand. I had previously seen Bruce floors with big grooves and didn't like them, but then someone recommended Mirage to me and they look fantastic. And no, the microbevels are not susceptible to dirt to liquids.

The people who call prefinished floors "fake", really don't know what they're talking about.

There is always going to be a debate about this, but I'll say what I tell most of my customers.

First, what's the look you want? Most pre-finished woods will NOT(no matter what the company tells you) have a perfectly flat end result, and you will have seams. Every wood company known to the flooring world will put a disclaimer on their 'instructions' that the "use of stains or putties should be considered normal practices". So if either of those concern you, don't get pre-finished wood. On site finished, those key things will be sanded down and puttied before finishing and resulting in less if no visibility of wider seems, putty marks and scratches out of box.

Second, finishes they put on pre-finished these days are considerably different in many ways. In a factory somewhere(probably China depending on the company) they can put the harshest chemicals they want on the wood because of the fact that it's in a "controlled environment" which then can(and mostly does) result in a better and stronger finish. With on-site finishing you are restricted legally on what finishes you can apply, and depending on situations and products it can take anywhere between 3 days to 2 weeks for only FINISHING. That takes a chunk out of and slows down your building or living time.

And thirdly, you cannot compare Apples to Oranges, EVER. You can't go to your neighbors house and see the pre-finished Australian Cypress they purchased from Lumber Liquidators for cheap that they installed themselves and then go to the local classy, and expensive, restaurant and see their on-site darkly finished Red Oak professionally installed, and come up with what you want in your house. And honestly people, 99 times out of 100 how much you spend will determine the end result. Meaning if there is a Oak that you're looking at and it costs $1.50/sf(yeah we wish, right?) and there is another Oak that costs $4.65/sf, the more expensive one WILL have a better finish, density, and/or overall quality(like i said 99 times out of 100). There's too much to go into but the basic aspects are different companies get different quality of wood- meaning grain tightness(tighter is better less chance of damage during sawing) grain pattern, finish chemicals(if pre-finished), etc.

And just some last comments to help you out. What it really all comes down to is you. It's your house, it's your likes and dislikes that matter. Joe Shmoe can try and try to sell you this product or that product, but only go for what you want(remember most companies will give a kick back, or a spiff, to the sales person to sell their product even if the sales person says they don't). You have to live in your house, nobody else does. The installer only cares if you're happy and he/she gets paid, and the salesman only cares if you're happy and he/she gets paid, but you can only be happy if you get what you really want.

Also, I used to love Bamboo. I like the look and most notably it is one of the fastest growing woods(it's actually a grass) in the world. I don't like it for floors anymore because it scratches so easily, because of the nature of a grass it soaks up any liquid very quickly including finishes. If your heart is set on bamboo, go with on-site and expect a lot of finishing days and in the future refinishes. I know there is another thread on bamboo floors, so check that out. Then, as with all floors, make SURE you felt all your furniture with heavy duty felt(in Oregon it's tan, but everywhere it will be very thick) and no, plastic feet will not do- knock off all old feet and replace with heavy duty felt.

A pre-finished product that I really like is hand scraped wood. Couple reasons for this is- personal preference as i like more "rustic" looking design- and also because scratches and dings and bangs don't show as easily. I've actually installed a floor that had such a dark finish and was hand scraped that we accidentally cross-grained scratched it after it was all laid with an appliance and we took a sharpie(yes the marker) and colored the scratch with it and the scratch literally disappeared even to us knowing where to look for the scratch. So a dark stained hand scraped wood is excellent for scratches.

And lastly, if you "think" you can install it- get a professional, it's harder than it looks and pros have the right tricks and tools that make the final product perfect(not to mention if something goes wrong you have someone else's dollar that will have to fix it). The only reason you should do it yourself is if you "know" you can do it.

Hope all that helps. Good luck with your remodels or new homes!

flooring contractor- yes that all helped! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I will check out Mirage -that seems to be the only brand recommended on this-do you have any other specific brands-
What do you think of Brazilian cherry- rustic will not work in my decor unfortunately. I have seen 10, 15 and 25 yr warentees on some pre-finished floors - do you think I should use the length as a determiner for the quality?
I'll keep researching.....thank you for all the post

I have picked Lauzon prefinished. If Mirage had a color I liked I would have likely taken the Mirage. I looked at a lot of floor samples. I'm getting the pearl(20 or 30 deg gloss) finish and a medium color so dirt, dust and dents should be hidden fairly well. I have an onsite floor in the diningliving room and foyer area.

I love Brazilian Cherry. Couple reasons are because dings, scratches, and imperfections are less noticeable because of the density of the wood. Some tests have shown that BC is 82% harder than Oak, which in the earlier American society it was known as one of the hardest. Which also means that at the mill, it will be easier for the company to get closer to perfection. Its darker color also helps hide wear marks better than other woods like maple.

As dealing with companies I like both Mirage and Lauzon for non hand-scraped. You must remember with every company there is a level of quality within their own products. so if you want a floor that will last a lifetime you want first to start with a Classic section(otherwise known as 3/4" solid) instead of a engineered. Benefits to this include fact that after the finish starts to wear down you can sand it down and refinish it, whereas engineered wood only has so much it can be sanded before you get down to the actual plywood layer. there are different degrees to the companies wood too and most have about three different and most mean about the same. I acquired this explanation from the Mirage Classic website:
"* Select & Better (slight natural color variations)
* Exclusive (full range of natural color variations)
* Traditional (pronounced natural color variations)"

Now dealing with the warranties. You have to pay attention to the details of the warranties. You might not know this but there is two different warranties(at least) to every pre-finished wood flooring company. One, and most likely the one they plaster in big bold letters all over their ads, is the finish warranty. This covers the wear protection meaning on normal usage(walking mainly)- this does not cover dropping things dragging things that end with scratches, etc. I personally wouldn't go with anything under 25 yr, but it has to fit your budget. The other would be the actual wood and I believe that lifetime warranties are the only option for this. This warranty covers the structural integrity of the boards themselves, meaning that they won't start splitting and separating for life. Very important.

I went ahead and looked up some details of the two company's finishes for you, but I encourage you to look into them yourself.
Lauzon: "PolyniumPLUS With Sunshield & Ultra-Fresh:

Polynium is a highly durable polymerized titanium finish that provides exceptional wear/fade protection. It is packed with Sunshield UV protection that minimizes the damage of UV rays as a result of exposure to the sun. It is 10 times more resistant than polyurethane and features Ultra-FreshÂ, an antimicrobial treatment that provides long lasting protection against bacteria and odors." More information at www.lauzonltd.com

Mirage: "An exclusive innovation by Mirage Hardwood Floors, NanolinxTM is the first nanotechnology finish in prefinished wood flooring to use a network of crosslinked nano particles. Mirage has broken new ground once again by using nanotechnology in its finishing system."
"* Transparent. Lets you appreciate wood's natural beauty.
* Flexible. The crosslinked particles make the finish more elastic preserving the original look of the floor.
* Wear-Resistant. Up to 5 times more wear-resistant than most other finishes.
* UV Protector. Delays and reduces the sunshading phenomenon that causes wood to darken and yellow over time.
* Clean. A clean, hypoallergenic and healthy finish that dirt can't lay a finger on.
Details of Nanolinx on www.miragenanolinx.com "

Both companies have a 25 yr wear and a limited lifetime structural, so that's why I like them and they install perfectly.

Hope that's what you were looking for and helps.

Hi, I've had both. We are getting ready to build and the only type I would even consider is on-site wood flooring. However, what type of wood? We lived in our last house (with the on-site oak) for 8 years with 2 teenage boys and two huge labs. Had them all over the downstairs, including the kitchen, dining room, entry, kitchen eating area, den, and hallways. The boys played football and at times we would have the entire varsity team there no doubt playing fetch with the dogs in the house of course. The kids and the dogs didn't faze the floors; sometimes moving furniture or a plant we would scratch it, but all in all we loved them. Now we can't decide what grade to use: clear, select and preferred, or #1 or #2. We went to a very fine hard wood store that carries many exotic types. It's very confusing but we are going to stay with what we know works, but the problem is we don't know which grade we had at our old house.

Hope this helps and didn't confuse you futher.

kc

We have pre-finished American cherry floors. They are solid 3/4 inch thick 5 inches wide with a very tiny micro-bevel. I had been looking at Homerwood's "character grade" plank American cherry, but my builder found a similar product with a little less "character". There are some knots and sapwood which I think adds to the beauty. We think it is gorgeous.

I would visit the flooring forum. So much has been said about this issue. One thing that influenced me was the suggestion that wood contracts and expands, and that this is more noticeable with wider plank floors. The thought was a site finished wider plank floor can pull apart at the seams basically cracking the finish that had up to that point bridged (and sealed) that seam. This may be crazy talk... just stuff I read.

As far as micro-bevels. I thought they'd bug me too, but they really are very tiny. The floor is medium to dark and there's so much pattern to the wood that I don't even notice them.

I was told that the bevels allowed for tolerance in boards that may not have been perfectly milled. They are tongue and groove, and if one happened to sit a teensy bit higher the result would be a sharp edge that you could feel and that would be subject to wear and damage. The bevels make those differences in height less noticeable.

Let us know what you decide!