Layout advice for kitchen in old Ohio house, please

12 years ago

We're working on finalizing a new kitchen design for our 100-year-old house. I've seen lots of helpful tips from the folks on this forum, and would appreciate any comments on layouts in the link below. I'm a pretty good DIY cabinetmaker, and will build them myself - simple white shaker style all around. The dishwasher is to the right of the 30" farmhouse sink, and a pullout trash drawer to the left. We're planning a Sharp microwave drawer left of the slide-in range. A few specific questions as well:

- I'm debating about the 12" wide 'toaster oven alcove' next to the refrig - I like it, but am not sure about sacrificing 12" of counterspace for it - there's not a whole lot of prep space already. Note that this counter is 30" deep already - we're planning to use a full-size frig, and want it to look counter-depth.

- Above this alcove we're thinking of a pantry-style pullout - is this a bad idea for a wall cabinet (rather than a base cabinet)? It will mostly hold lightweight stuff - cereal, pasta, grains, etc

- The sink counter faces a new family room addition. Should it just be a wide counter, or should we build a breakfast bar - a stud half-wall with a granite counter on top (to raise the height and to hide the sink from the FR)?

We have very little space for wall cabinets, but lots of drawers. How big a problem is this?

Many thanks in advance for your comments.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cinci Kitchen Sketchup

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Comments (3)

herbflavor
12 years ago
I would eliminate the counter obstruction for the toaster oven. Create upper and lower cabs there[can be roll out pantry type] with continuation of counter to frig. To the left of frig it appears 18-20 in before window trim....if open uppers is what you seek-place them in that spot,turn them facing out, with a break between upper/lower-install counter and place toaster oven here-can the counter go across window?unclear of where bottom window trim starts-float a ledge or, drop the counter a few inches/reduce depth and run it under window-great "landing" spot, which your space could use. Shallow butcher block cart-free standing type?? toaster ovens get hot-to use it you'll be pulling it in/out alcove that you have-off to the other side where it can "stay" in position would be superior. They are nice machines and do many things-but HOT!
desertsteph
12 years ago
you'll get more replies/help if you post a clear layout of the room. use graph paper (free online). post the layout you want (or think you do at this point), room measurements, where doors/windows are, the rooms the doors lead to etc.

have you considered putting doors on the 'side' of the cabinet that is to the left of the fridge rather than making it a pull out? I'd get tired of pulling that thing out just to get 1 item. It'd be much easier to just open a door(s), pick out what I want and shut the door(s) again.
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I'm offering the following as a devil's advocate. Both positions for your kitchen are viable choices with nice reasons to go each way. That's why you need to draw up all possibilities to consider. If the middle is right for you guys, this will end up reinforcing that decision. Versatility and size? That 15x30 room is looking very, very nice as it is, but the far end is prize square footage with all those exterior walls (light/views in up to 3 directions), and right now you plan to actually dine there very little--pretty but underused. If you put the kitchen down there, that addition would be used as intensively as it deserves to be. The living area for furniture placement would be the same, but it would be more strongly defined. Nevertheless the whole should still appear very spacious because it would still be part of a 15x30 room with kitchen on end and still be open to the north, which would extend additional living activities that direction, instead of east. The dining room might well end up used more for various activities in the middle of the house. In considering this alternative layout, how about a pretty door to the outside from a middle/dining room, French perhaps? And for that matter, are you sure you wouldn't have a door directly out from the kitchen? You have an entry in that end that looks as if it would need some reconfiguring too. Would it enter the middle/dining room? Last night I also thought of one other -- possible -- advantage to switching the kitchen and dining room: the step down. This could be a design asset for a dining room, setting it off as special as viewed from the living room. Since you don't plan to eat there a lot, even with young children you could have a nice rug under the table if you wanted it. You'd take that step mostly on the way back to the children's rooms--longer journeys. For the kitchen, you guys'd be making all the many, many little daily journeys between the living room and kitchen on a level floor. Morning sun in kids' hallway? Have sunshine everywhere and you eliminate the pleasure of entering a sunny room. A dim hallway is often a design asset because it makes the rooms opening off it all the more inviting. I can't see what that cabinet in the hall is, but with a little attention to attractiveness and interest, the hall looks pretty good to me. The only way I could imagine to improve it would be to extend it to come back around on itself -- children love to run in circles. :) As it is now, though, the hall enters a sunny middle room in the mornings, setting that room off really nicely, however it's used.
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Just be careful of... Aisle widths...remember that aisles are measured counter edge-to-counter edge or to/from the items that stick out the farthest into the aisle - whether counters, appliance handles, walls, etc. They are not measured base cabinet-to-base cabinet (if you measure this way, then your actual aisles will be at least 3" narrower than you think they are.) [Minimum aisle widths with no seating on the aisle: 42" for one person working in the aisle at the same time; 48" for two or more. If seating on a work aisle, plan for at least 54".] Corner seating...two seats cannot occupy the same leg/knee space under the counter - so be sure you have at least 39" for each seat on the long end (15" overhang for the seats on the short end + 24" linear space for the seat on the long end). Do you really need 4 seats at the island with the table so close? I would reduce it to 2 or 3 - with no seats in front of the refrigerator. Refrigerator...if it's a counter-depth, then check the depth, most are around 30" to 32" deep, including doors & handles. If it's a true built-in, then it's actual depth will be around 26" to 28" (counting handles). Regardless, it won't be exactly the 24" as shown in your layout.
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A good friend of mine had a foursquare are redid her kitchen. Her floor plan is not the same - but she also wanted to keep the character of her home. She does have a large doorway between dining room and kitchen. The wall is not gone, but the two rooms flow into each other. Her cabinetry on the left hand wall is shortened in depth - not quiet as deep as regular lower cabinets and there are no appliances on that wall. I don't have any great ideas, but a large opening between the dining and kitchen would not mean taking a wall down but would allow the dining room to be used for all eating and the entire remodel space for a kitchen. You could consider the sink under the higher window and the range between windows as long as they are not too close together - you need space between to prep and work. If you want to go with a vintage look to flow with the rest of the home, you could have a sink base "cabinet" made to support an apron front sink and no back that could go in front of the low window It would have a curtain instead of doors, or possibly doors with radiator vent panels. I don't know if that is possible with the radiator - want to be safe. I would consider a "short apron" Kohler Whitehaven to get a more vintage look. The curtain allows access to the lower part of the window for cleaning. You could put the sink between the windows and do a curtained counter over the low window. Many have mentioned they like looking out of the window while they prep more than while they wash up. Curtained sink base: Radiator cover doors:
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You wouldn't need to remove the whole wall--just widen the cased opening with a new header above (which is why I left the remnant of the wall--to support the header and provide space for a shallow pantry cab). Also, behind the exterior door, you wouldn't need to open the wall--I suggested using the stud bays to add storage, but you have space for a tall shallow cabinet. I realize your plan might not be exact, but you show no filler between the fridge and the wall to the right, which means the fridge door will not open fully, and maybe not even to 90 degrees, in order to pull out the crispers. You can check the specs on your model, to make sure. You probably don't have that issue now, since it looks as if the fridge door opens away from the wall, in its current orientation. To the right of the range, you could use a cabinet which opens to the side, and then extend the countertop to the edge of the door frame, but you probably wouldn't be able to case it. I wonder if you could use the existing chimney to vent the range on that wall?
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rosie
12 years ago
I actually like your layout in general. My thoughts are based on how I'd use it.

1. Toaster oven alcove. That solid wall does seem to close in the corner somewhat undesirably with its mass, and you'd need to keep that counter clear to open the door. For me, that corner would be a great place for coffee/tea, toaster, quick sandwich, that sort of thing. I'd probably want my microwave there since I seldom cook with it but am constantly heating, defrosting, etc. (Confession, I've never ever used a toaster oven.) Door opening interfering with other uses is the biggest issue I see here, though. Love the counter depth. It'd be a very useful little corner.

2. Above-counter pull-out. As a short person who can't reach most upper shelves, that would only be a plus for me. The only reason to stick to mostly lightweight would be safety.

3. Height of counter--strictly personal choice, varying by the overall synergy factor of each. I'd mock it up with boxes and boards, and maybe a pile of dirty pots and dishes, then decide.

4. Lack of wall cabinets. No drawback at all for me. I chose windows instead of uppers. Tall people may have a different plus/minus balance. Either way, the kitchen will feel a lot larger and airier without them. You'll probably want to do without drawers, maybe 24" or so, in a lower cabinet somewhere in favor of vertical storage for baking sheets, etc.

5. Regarding enough prep space, I'd do most of my meal prep on the 41" to the left of the stove, which is similar to the 36-40" I typically find myself working at on my 59" island. The 41" to the right would be ready and waiting for a second "project" or cook. Then there's the quick-prep area to the left of the sink. It'd all work fine for me. I do most of my cooking from scratch, but it's a rare day when I put up a few bushels of figs or bake and decorate a wedding cake.

Layout advice for kitchen in old Ohio house, please

Comments (3)

herbflavor

desertsteph

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rosie

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