Hi Dances: I sometimes wonder if the "female liberation" and the "equal opportunity" push in the sixties and seventies didn't do more harm than good to working women now. Of course I am for equal rights and equal pay for equal jobs - it just seems like NO ONE - especially the men - wanted to tackle that ever-present question of WHO'S GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THE HOUSE WHEN BOTH SPOUSES WORK?? Unfortunately, for the most part it still falls on the women to do most, if not all, of the domestic household chores. The result: Woman who now have less time than ever before; who are having to work outside the home full-time and still are expected to keep the house shining like a brand-new penny. I call it the "Ozzie and Harriet" syndrome ;)! Our house isn't as neat and spotless as I would like. Like most families (I think), both my husband and I work full-time jobs. We don't have any kids with us (his youngest daughter lived with us until she went off to college, but that was six years ago), but we (I) have four cats. To be honest, about the only thing he does is mow the lawn once a week. I edge, weedwhack and sweep the sidewalks. Even when it comes to yard work, I get more of the chores! I honestly don't think he would even remember trash day or recycle day, and he certainly wouldn't remember water bottle delivery day! He does like to cook big meals when time allows, but to be real honest with you I'd rather have soup, salad and sandwich for dinner after a long day at work than to eat a huge meal and than stay up until 10:30 that night cleaning all the pots and pans he uses! Yes - the bulk of the entire house workload does fall on me; and I am becoming increasingly more angry about that fact. Even though we both have full-time jobs, my husband earns about three times what I make, and I sometimes wonder if that's why he doesn't do more around the house. My opinion is: It shouldn't matter about the size of the income; we're both away from the house all day, and we both have the same amount of "free" time in the evenings and on weekends. I sometimes wonder how men can just sit there and watch the women they supposedly love and care about work their fingers to the bone doing all the housework? I know I couldn't do it. And when you ask them why they don't contribute more, most of the time the lame-ass answer is: "You didn't tell me it needed doing!". I find that hysterically funny, because you sure don't need to tell the WOMEN that the clothes need cleaning, the kids need feeding, the house needs vacuuming. I remember telling my DH that "this was his house too, and he should be able to see the things that needed doing just as well as I could!". It's amazing how they can turn a blind eye to the chores that need doing when they don't feel like doing them. A man can get away with a messy house and uncut lawn - but due to an awful double standard, women can't. Make no mistake - I love my husband, but this household workload inequity is really starting to bother me. And don't even get me started on the holidays - I'm beginning to dread holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas; simply because it means all that extra work on top of all the work that I'm already doing! DH and I have been together 15 years; and for those 15 years, he has NEVER once taken charge of the holidays, whether it be Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas. It's ALWAYS been up to me to take care of the Christmas cards (and that includes keeping track of all HIS friends when they move!) and accompanying letter, decorating the house, getting the tree up and decorating it. It's kind of hard to enjoy the "season" when your bone-tired! I'm beginning to feel like the "perfect" holiday for me would be a holiday where I wasn't expected to do anything - no decorations, no presents, no extra work of any kind! It's not that I don't like the holidays - I do - but it's becoming just TOO much work that it's tough to take some time out from all the hustle and bustle and just enjoy the holidays! I know that doesn't sound very festive, and I wonder if anyone else out there feels the same way I do about this. Now, I know that there are men out there who do more domestically than their women; it's just that more often that not, it's the women to do all the domestic housework. It's almost like we were expected to go out there and have full-time jobs and careers and STILL act like Donna Reed and have a four-course dinner prepared with the house spotless and ready for "hubby" to come home! Thanks for letting me vent, everyone! Dances - I know this doesn't solve your problem, but hopefully it will make you feel better so know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE in this.

Hey you.. I was just coming to chat with you. I did not get my planting done yet. Well, only some of it. I got sidetracked. My DM asked me to lunch and then I stopped at the TS on the way home! ha You know I can't pass it up! It's horrible. I think everyone must have cleaned house over the holiday cause the TS was packed with stuff. I was in danger of an avalanche the whole way thru. I was in there for almost 3 hours! I got a chandelier for $1! I really really really like it. I don't know what I'm gonna do with or where I'm gonna put it, but I really like it. ha I got 3 big metal flowers for $2 each and a cross stitch book for $1, an americana tin to plant some flowers in. I picked up a few things for my brother, a rusty moose tea light holder, a hanging moose ornie, a "Closed for the Season" cabin and bear pic, some fish hooks (I think they were from Collections etc) they are fish and their tails turn up to make the hooks, and a folky looking santa on a rocker (makes him look ike he's walking) with a big old fish under his arm and carrying a fishing pole. They were all either 50 cents or $1. OH and my SIL has been trying to find some wallpaper to match what's in her kitchen with no success. The previous owners must have ran out or something cause she has about two strips missing close to her fridge. I found a roll of it!! She is gonna flip. ha $1. I told my mom how much stuff their was and now she wants me to go back with her tomorrow. May try to talk her into going to another one too. It's supposed to be raining tomorrow. I gotta quit shopping and start painting. ha It's soooo fun to find stuff though. I'm gonna have to chain myself to my painting table. ha I'll try to take a pic here in a little while, but I've got to go plant the rest of my flowers now. So it sounds like you picked up some fun pieces too! And I'm excited to see what you've been working on. I'll come back later tonight to see if they are up. DH took off yesterday and worked on the bathroom. Did a second coat of grout, and we got the light fixture done and the toilet installed! Yay. We just have to put the coat of sealer on the tile, put in the baseboards, put up a mirror and put in a sink!! We are inching closer to being finished. ha Well, you get in there and be quiet now...no housework...I agree it's just too noisy. ha Painting is much quieter. ha Have a good one. I'll be back in a little while after I plant my flowers. ~Anj

Women always lose when they move in with a man, even when they move to a new place together. My second husband wanted me to do that and I gave him his ring back. He found me that evening an apologized for suggesting it. He said his ex thought he was rushing things, we waited a year to marry. My instinct told me it would best for me not to move in with him and it was the right decision. When I became engaged a friend asked me how I got him to do that. Her BF said he lost to much going through his first divorce he was never going to marry again. That worked for her...for awhile. Anyway she wanted to know what she should do. My reply was "why should he marry you, he has it all now free. You clean, cook and have sex with him and make his house a home for free, why should he take on the financial responsibility? If you leave him it won't cost him a thing". I saw her a month or two later and she showed me her wedding ring. She had thought about what I said, he wouldn't marry her, so she quit her job,packed the kids and moved to Texas to live with her Mom. Lo and behold he went after her and brought back". She was so happy she glowed, I couldn't believe the difference in her.

Ohmygosh. I thought this would be about pros and cons of cleaning the range top, not bending. Surely not all the people worrying about lifting pans out of an undercounter oven are in their 80s or seriously debilitated from some joint problem? Debility may well be on its way, though. This is absolutely a kitchen design issue. Try this picture: My neighbor has had mild arthritis for a while, pain almost always controlled with aspirin and Tylenol, but it's been a reason for becoming more and more sedentary. She dislikes walking upstairs these days because it wears her out; "fortunately," their bedroom's on the main floor and she seldom has to. I know she never exercises, but I was surprised the other week to see her have difficulty getting out of her armchair. Took two tries, successful after she first boosted herself to the edge. Her progressively more crippled lifestyle isn't from the arthritis, it's from deconditioning, facilitated by her energetic husband who does all the trotting around for them. Of course, she has lots of back pain, and I strongly doubt she can bend much, though wouldn't know. She's somewhere in her early 60s and has NO significant health problems. For those to whom this applies, I strongly recommend getting a wall oven only for positive reasons--NOT in an unintentional but ongoing plan to remove as much healthy exercise from your day as possible. Bending is good. Being able to lift from below safely is good. "Worried about...?" Back strengthening and stretching exercises worked wonders for me after I burst a disk lifting; no more back pain, no more back injuries from weak muscles for close to 20 years. BTW, I'm in my mid 50s and put my undercounter oven to the side of the cooktop in my new kitchen so I don't stand in front of it. It's right there where I work and nice and easy for basting and viewing. I'm very pleased with it and would do it again for sure, although I would like a wall oven too if I had room for it. When the day comes I have problems, which it will--the signs are in my increasingly bad spine posture, I'll have the incentive to do those exercises in front of the TV again for a while.