Spray in foam insulation

MontanaProf

19 years ago

I'm considering spraying in foam insulation into the wall cavities of our 60 year old house.

Has anyone had any experience / feedback with fomofoam?

http://www.fomofoam.com/existing_homes.htm

Can anyone recommend some other DIY options?

Cheers

David

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Comments (5)

wowibrug
19 years ago
Hello David,

I am no expert on this issue, and your home might have been built recently enough that this is not a concern, but I've been told that you cannot safely blow insulation in if you have knob & tube wiring.

That said, our home is 80 years old with K&T, has had blown-in insulation for 20+ years, and has not yet burned down (knock on wood). However, we have been advised to tear out the K&T at the earliest opportunity because apparently it's a serious fire hazard with the blown-in insulation.

That's all. I am going to skulk away now because that this posting is the sum total of my knowledge on this issue. Good luck!
MontanaProf
Original Author
19 years ago
Funny you should cover the K&T issue. We didn't want a house that had it, because of the issue of it been dangerous, particulalry with insulation, which we need up here. When we bought the 60 year-old house the folks selling it claimed everything was fine and dandy with the wiring. There was some K&T in the basement, which we asked them to remove, and they only sort of did - removing it right to the edge of the basement. Turns out this was because the whole house was K&T and they knew we wouldn't buy the house if we knew.

Anyway, when we had a remodel done, the electrician told us about the true extent of the K&T and we had it all replaced. So in the end, K&T is now not an issue. Although those darn sellers knew that they were tricking us when they "forgot" to tell us about it and only did half the job when they "removed" it from the basement!

Cheers
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It looks like almost all the available public info comes from the insulation companies or sites with insulation company sponsors. I don't know about you but I certainly completely trust my health and my life to the chemical industry. Closed-cell spray foam is the most expensive residential insulation. When installed well it performs better than any other insulation. It is an excellent air barrier, is impervious to moisture, is an effective vapor retarder, and adds structural strength to a wall. ItÃ¢ÂÂs made of a mixture of isocyanate, a petroleum-based chemical, and a catalyst, polyol resin, a surfactant, and a blowing agent. Spray foam comes in many varieties: high density, low density, medium density, polyurethane, phenol formaldehyde, and urea formaldehyde. It is plastic, it will not burn, but it will melt and the fumes will kill you, but the main problem is off-gassing formaldehyde, a chemical that can cause a variety of health problems and is listed by the EPA as a possible carcinogen in humans. Urea-formaldehyde is found in some pressed wood products, such as particleboard, hardwood plywood paneling and medium density fiberboard. Urea-formaldehyde foam insulation installed during the 1970s resulted in high indoor concentrations of formaldehyde but outgassing declines with time. Phenol-formaldehyde formulation proves better at lowering outgassing in foam and in wood products. After Polyurethane foams have cured, VOC emissions are extremely low and the foam should pose no problems to all but those who have chemical sensitivities. In any event, they don't off-gas formaldehyde.
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Flash and batt is effective, but you need to be sure the foam is thick enough so that you don't form a condensing surface inside the wall. In the northeast 1" would not be enough, I don't know about VA, it might vary across the state. There are tables that will tell you the minimum thickness needed given the lowest temperatures you expect. Where we are the minimum is 2-3 in, at which point it's about a wash to just go with all foam. Another approach to consider (which may or may not make sense in a more moderate climate) is spray foam on the inside for air sealing and a rigid foam wrap on the outside to block thermal bridging across the framing members. That's been extremely effective in our house.
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In order of prevalence, here are the problems I've seen, with explanations following the list: https://www.minisplitunit.org/ Spray foam isn't thick enough. Spray foam installers missed some of the air leakage sites. Spray foam installers didn't understand the building envelope and sprayed either too little or too much. Spray foam contracts and pulls away from framing. Spray foam isn't thick enough. This is more common with closed cell foam, but it happens with open cell foam, too. Since closed cell foam has a higher R-value per inch, installers generally spray 2" in walls and 3" in rooflines to meet the energy code requirements of R-13 and R-19, respectively. (I'm not going to dive into the energy code here, but these numbers apply to many climate zones, the latter being allowed under the UA tradeoffs rule. See the Energy Nerd's blog on this topic if you want to argue.) Open cell foam usually fills the framing cavity completely, so it's easy to tell if the installer has sprayed enough. Closed cell foam doesn't fill the cavity, so you've got to spot check in a bunch of places to make sure you don't get shorted. The video below is from a house near Charleston, South Carolina that I visited recently, and you'll see that the homeowner in this case didn't get his money's worth. I knew immediately when I walked into the attic that something was wrong because it was hot up there. In a properly insulated spray foam attic, the temperature won't be much higher than the house temperature.
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niff
19 years ago
You may want to check This Old HOuse website as I recall they are big fans of this sort of insulation. ONe thing I always wonder though is how easy is fishing electrical/media wires, or adding new plumbing if you happen to need to do after the insulation is added.
wowibrug
19 years ago
Wow, David, that is some seriously shady business! It's so sad when people are dishonest. Hope you're enjoying your home; good luck!
bullheimer
19 years ago
true about adding anything afterwards. i just tore out a wall of my house that had it a few decades ago. i'm guessing the 70's or so. it shrunk away from the studs and top plates considerably. i would say if you have added all the electrical to it you will ever need to go ahead. K&T can't be covered but so what? either brush it away or don't spray it there. the wires depend on free air for heat dissapation. i have tons in my house i plan on leaving there. the insulation is still in good shape so there is no reason to replace it. you just should not, in my opinion, extend the circuits but always run new ones.

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Spray in foam insulation

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wowibrug

MontanaProf
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Spray in foam insulation

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wowibrug

MontanaProfOriginal Author

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MontanaProf
Original Author