In this situation it really kind of is between you and the work room to hash it out, unlike the situation would have been if you the designer was working at an hourly rate and cost plus or discount on retail. In that situation she may have ended up eating the drapes to make you happy, and had to deal with the workroom herself.

However she could have supplied a letter or something that stated she was unhappy with the quality herself.

Maybe she has had trouble finding a good workroom. They are harder and harder to come by. That's an excuse, I know, but that might be it. I am surprised she would want to work with a vendor that didn't back up their work, but maybe this is the first time she's had a problem with them.

No experience with interior designers so no thoughts on whether to be surprised. But how did you make out in court?

So how much time did she spend on the drapes and what did she charge you?

Hard to say without the full story.

I'm guessing she bills the way she does just for this type of situation. She doesn't want to be accountable for an agreement you made with another business.

It does make me wonder if she sides with the drapery company and doesn't want to admit it to you. If so, she should have the professionalism to tell you that.

Actually she may bear some responsibility if she picked a fabric that was not suitable for the application, but the workroom would have more experience in this regard as well. I wanted to use a fabric once and my upholsterer called me and said that he would not use it.

This post was edited by palimpsest on Fri, Jan 4, 13 at 23:02

I'm not surprised at all. This is an extremely common problem with designers and something everybody should be aware of.

I've bought tons and tons of homewares through designers. There are pluses and minuses to working with them. One minus that no one mentions is that they are not a large retail organization. A department store like Nordstrom's or a furniture store like Restoration Hardware will take back pretty much anything you don't like, because they can afford to. If you've had custom work done, you may or may not get a little something back depending on the store. But most designers run very small businesses, and don't have the margins to return or refund items they sell. More importantly for your situation, unlike large retailers, even if they're just advising rather than selling, they don't have a ton of leverage with their suppliers and are afraid to alienate them.

A designer will go to bat for you if they think a vendor will instantly back down and admit a problem. But if they think the vendor will hold it against them instead, you're on your own.

Just a couple of my own examples: An end table that arrived with a cracked leg got promptly returned and replaced, because my designer correctly predicted no one would put up a fuss.

By contrast, a metal table with a clearly bent leg seemed "fine." Why? Because the manufacturer is pulling back from the Boston area and she'd have no one to back her up. Same thing with silk fabric I sent out to be backed and treated. I paid a high price, the workroom forgot to back it and forgot to treat it. I received only a small, partial refund despite the fact I had been received literally no service of any kind.

So, that's a risk you always take with a designer that's a small business person. Always a risk. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Sorry this happened to you. With custom drapes there is no excuse on earth for anything short of perfection.

Yes, I think there is more to this story. While 30K may seem to be high to a lot of lay people, it's not an outrageous amount of money over time for a large project like an entire home. It could have been much higher if you had wanted additional services from her beyond just advice by the hour. Perhaps you thought you would save some money by not engaging her for those service and so decided to only hire her in an advisory capacity, not a supervisory one. It wasn't her role to engage the tradesmen or to accept or reject the product. Her role is to assist in selection and placement only. If you wish more accountability from her or any other professional in the future process, then you can pay the additional percentage of markup for all of the product that you purchase as well as additional fees for tradesperson supervision. Then the buck would stop with her, and it would be up to her to act as quality control.

If she does as much business with this workroom so as to not to want to burn the bridge, she could have offered to act as mediator and perhaps suggested a compromise like them lining the drapes with a heavier liner to get them to hang better, or your purchasing a different drapery fabric and them supplying labor. I am surprised that you ended up in court though. That is usually a losing proposition for all concerned. It's much better to try to reach a settlement of some variety. No workroom or designer wants to have unhappy clients, and most will try to work with a client to reach that compromise rather than go through the legal system. However, it's NOT her role to "back you up" in court should you decide to take a conflict that far. If you wanted to make it her role, then you would have engaged her to hire and supervise the upholsterer. Then she would have been the one who had the dispute with them.

We don't know how much she was charging per hour. The rate could have covered handling potential problems, which is generally a designer's responsibility and one reason you have hired a professional for the job and why you pay a lot of money for their help. She didn't say how involved the designer was with the companies or in designing the drapes. "She brought in several companies" is vague. A "decorator" might get away with "I like this fabric in this style, here's a phone number of a good company I've worked with before."

Designers can charge their fees in various ways. Some prefer to charge a simple hourly rate.

Have you checked your contract?

why couldn't they fix the drapes ?, if they installed them they should have seen that something was wrong . Did she intervene with the drape company at all at any point ?

I am curious to know what happened in court, and I'm sorry you had to go through this, what a mess.

From what you have stated: As for backing you up in court - YOU are the customer not the drapery mfg. IMHO she should have come to court - I would guess all she had to do was tell the judge that YES the drapes are crooked/uneven. Just confirm your reason for non-payment,
I'm suprised you had to pay the drapery mfg. direct - I have always paid the decorator who then paid them.
As for her "burning bridges" - jeez, they are the ones to worry about not getting anymore of her business not the other way around!
I've had a couple of unstatisfied times w/decorators and screw ups too - sometimes it was resolved to my satisfaction, sometimes not.
How did it pan out in court?

Since she didn't show up at court, doesn't that mean you won and she lost. I'm lost to the situation now.

Seems no matter the rest of the story details, she burned her bridge with YOU.

Seems to me that if I were a designer and one of my clients was unhappy with something done by a workroom, that I would never recommend that workroom again. Would not want to repeat the experience and make another client unhappy. Since she gave you several workroom recommendations, there is clearly no shortage of workrooms in the area. As a designer I would simply strike that particular workroom that failed to do the job right from my list of prospective workrooms. Do you think she has a financial relationship with that (or any of the other) workrooms and is receiving some special consideration for recommending them? Or maybe they have done some special favors for her in the past, given other clients additional services at a cut rate, and she doesn't want to endanger that...just pondering.

To Green Designs: It was actually a whole lot more than 30K, but I was uncomfortable putting the real amount. She was engaged to do everything - it was my job to give direction and pick colors and pay. That was it. She didn't want to run the purchases through her business and, frankly, I did't think it was fair to charge me hourly and make a profit on the merchandise itself. She agreed.

Court: I had to pay, but the judge gave me a substantial discount. He said it sounded like the fault was really with the fabric. I had made numerous attempts to settle and had found someone who came up with an idea of a cornice that hid the unevenness at the top and allowed the curtains to puddle so that the problem couldn't be seen. He asked me about that specifically before he made his decision.

There were literally outloud gasps in the court room. And, several people told me how sorry they were for me. I thought that was really nice, they didn't have to comment at all. I think it shook some of them that he would decide that way, and they were up next!

So I'm out 8K for two sets of custom drapery that I now have to fix.

I don't know what I could have done differently....

How involved was she in the draperies? How much did you pay her for that involvement, that she takes no responsibility in working out the issues on that project?

I also wonder if this is one of those cases where an inappropriate fabric was used. Which, of course, is a reason why you hire professionals for the job.

Sorry you didn't get your money back. For that kind of money, they should work it until it's satisfactory.

That stinks.

I think you should start a new thread and name the parties involved, location, post some pictures and let it be known that the designer and the shop thought the work was acceptable and that the shop sued you for payment. No need for any extensive details or opinion. Just post the simple facts.

It won't change your situation but may help future potential customers of the designer and the drapery shop who Google for information.

Is there a conflict of interest here? Is the workroom somehow or other related to the designer, by blood, by friendship, etc?

How did the court case come out? I am thinking all you asked is the designer to give their professional opinion on the quality of the job. I am not seeing how s/he should not have. Possibly s/he would need to be paid for their precious time..but other wise where is the issue? I would be very disappointed and no longer be able to trust their professionalism. Truth is truth and if they are dealing with a shoddy company then who cares if they burn a bridge? To think that a company thats stock and trade is custom will not stand behind their workmanship is unacceptable. At this point all you can do is dust the stench of them both off your shoes and move forward.

I'm sorry this happened to you and wish it would have turned out better for you. But one lesson to take away is that refusing to pay isn't usually a good solution to a problem with a business. The business will almost always turn it over to collections or bring a lawsuit against you.

It would likely have been better to pay the bill under protest and if they didn't provide satisfaction, then you sue them to try to get your $$ back. I think the courts are more sympathetic to that scenario. They see too many people trying to get out of paying for things, but if they see you paid and the drapery company didn't provide a reasonable product, the court might have held that against them and awarded you a refund.

"It was actually a whole lot more than 30K, but I was uncomfortable putting the real amount. She was engaged to do everything - it was my job to give direction and pick colors and pay. That was it. She didn't want to run the purchases through her business and, frankly, I did't think it was fair to charge me hourly and make a profit on the merchandise itself. She agreed."

The above makes no sense to me. Anything I have ever bought through our designer was his cost plus 35%. You'd come out better buying through her than paying retail and paying her by the hour. Additionally, most "to the trade" furniture and decorative accessories, wallpapers, fabrics, etc. can't be purchased by a client and therefore have to be "run through her business." Ditto the workroom. If all you did was pick colors and pay, that means she must have contracted the workroom and given them the design and dimensions of the curtains. That makes her the customer, regardless of who pays. But the financial arrangements are bizarre and make me think she is not a professional, certainly not an ASID.

Also, in our state 8k is not small claims. Curiouser and curiouser.

I paid my designer per hour and her company made the furniture/fabric/drape/rug purchases. These purchases are charged at her wholesale price plus 20%. She is the main contact for everything. We had some minor issues with some of the drapes and she made the calls to have the workroom come pick up the drapes, make the repairs, bring them back and re-hang.

I also have an issue with the fabric she had recommended for the dining room chairs. The chairs are supposed to be reupholstered at her expense. The holidays put everything on hold, buy I'm expecting she will do what needs to be done for the project to end on a positive note.

Yes, that's not small claims money in my state either. And whether or not someone shows up in court is up to the judge, not the individual. If the judge felt her testimony would have been needed for the case, she would have been issued a subpoena and had to show up. The fact that she wasn't in court means that the judge felt she wasn't an interested party to the dispute.

"These purchases are charged at her wholesale price plus 20%"

The above is another familiar scenario when working with a designer. But the OP said he didn't think it was "fair" for the designer to profit on the purchases. I've never heard of a designer who only offers retail furniture to a customer. ??

Some interior designers work at an hourly rate only.
Some work at cost plus or retail minus only.
Some charge a flat fee per job.
Some bill a combination of an hourly rate and cost+ or retail-

I do not work full time in the business but I have generally billed out hourly rate only. The only client that I have ever done extensive, full-house window treatments for had a fabricator that they preferred to use. Since so many people are using blinds or shades or nothing, most of my clients have paid me to measure properly and prepare the order properly and then order it themselves.

None of the methods of billing out are more or less professional than the others, and more designers are starting to work at hourly rates because clients will often try to find things even cheaper on the internet. And many, if not most "to the trade" showrooms will now sell direct to the consumer through in house designers, and it becomes a sticking point who actually gets what commission, etc.

The traditional fee method of markups on to-the-trade only has changed because the game has changed.

Quite a few states have $10,000 or higher small claims court limits and subpoena procedures are different state to state.

This post was edited by olychick on Sat, Jan 5, 13 at 21:29

It's not fair that you end up with ill fitting drapes, even at a discount; needing a cornice to make them work seems crazy to me.

What excuses was the workroom giving you, did they even try to make the drapes hang properly ?

The judge seemed to favour the workroom by blaming the fabric, did you buy the fabric or did your designer propose it to you ? we could all learn a lesson here with "customer's own material" drapes, is the workroom not responsible if you provide the material and it turns out difficult to work with or is impossible to provide decent drapes with it ?

This must be so frustrating to you.

Um --

1. Judges do not issue sua sponte subpeonas to random non-parties

2. As pal said, there are many, many payment models today

3. Not paying a business is often the only remedy a consumer has. And it worked here, where the workroom was unable to recover the full sum demanded

4. Nobody said the OP paid retail for anything. If I pay my designer for hours only, my cost for the actual goods or service is the same as her net

This is the basic problem with the home renovation and design industries. The real repeat customers are the trades, not the homeowner. An individual homeowner is just not that important compared to keeping good relations inside the industry, whether you're talking about plumbers or workrooms.

I am still wondering why the drapes cannot simply be re-hemmed and/or re-lined. I'd also be ticked off enough to go after the manufacturer and the designer as well.

Wayfinder,
It would be great to see a photo of the window treatments and a few details about the type of fabric and the design requested. We could all learn something from your unfortunate experience. Companies are all different, but some of the fabric companies have been known to replace inferior fabric. At the same time, designers and workrooms know the instability of certain fabrics and should have given you a head's up before the fabric was ordered if they thought it might shrink/stretch.
Did the workroom even try to re-make these?

"keeping good relations inside the industry, whether you're talking about plumbers or workrooms."

I was told this 30 years ago by a plumber who I had asked to testify in small claims on a bad plumbing job. He was very reluctant, saying that if they do that they get "blackballed" by other plumbers. He did appear, maybe because the guy who did the work was not actually a licensed plumber.

I am also wondering if she declined because she screwed up on the fabric choice or specs so was ultimately to blame if they were inappropriate for the job.

"He said it sounded like the fault was really with the fabric"

And what did he specifically mean by this? A default in the fabric? It is not your job to know what fabrics will or will not work well for an application. If it's a defect, then maybe you have recourse with the manufacturer.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Jan 6, 13 at 11:36