Going past the stir-fry

13 years ago

I remember my first stir-fry dish, approaching it with great trepidation. This was back in the 1960's, living in a 1930's apartment with a great old O'Keefe & Merritt stove, but of course no exhaust hood. And wow, everything worked! It was yummy, and gave me a lifelong love for garlic and oyster sauce.

But cooking a new cuisine is like beginning to drink wine. You start off with something new, like stir-frying or Riesling, and get all excited about it. You can't imagine anything better.

Still...you can't drink Riesling with a grilled steak. Well, you could, but why? So you edge cautiously into something a little heavier that will match red meat. Maybe an approachable Zin, or a fruity blend of Syrah and Carignane - hey, this stuff isn't so bad, you might even buy another couple of bottles of this. Before you know it, you're into high-alcohol Cabs and blockbuster Burgundies!

Chinese cuisine is the same. To limit yourself to stir-frying is to miss out on some of the greatest techniques they have to offer. Skate is beloved of both the French and Chinese; the French saute it in butter while the Chinese steam it with ginger and douchi (fermented black soybeans). There is no better way to showcase a freshly killed chicken than crystal-boiling. Their 'velveting' technique not only works on shrimp but on chicken breast; it makes the most fantastic chicken piccata you've ever tasted.

And the epitome is the braise, or stew. The love of a good gravy sopped up with your choice of starch is so ingrained in every culture, it might even be genetic. Asians love gravy and rice; to us it says "home" and "love" the same way a homemade chicken pot pie would to an American.

So here are two great Asian chefs highlighted in the WSJournal Asia edition this year. One is an old-school chef who won two Michelin stars at his previous restaurant, and the other a younger 'TV star' chef. And the two dishes they are most renowned for, of course, are...braises.

========

Savoring Shanghai in Hong Kong

In Hong Kong, Zhe Jiang Heen is where Shanghai expatriates go for a taste of home. Few dishes better exemplify the city's rich fare than its pork belly and squid cooked in the sweet-savory braise known as hongshao.

Pan Kau-lung, whose father grew up near Shanghai, has more than 30 years of experience cooking in the style of his home region and was the former chef at Ye Shanghai, a two-Michelin-star restaurant in Hong Kong's Kowloon district. Last year, he left Ye Shanghai to helm Zhe Jiang Heen.

Zhe Jiang Heen was founded by members of the United Zhejiang Residents Association, one of the regional social clubs in Hong Kong that have long attracted mainland-Chinese immigrants looking for people, and in some cases, food, from their hometowns.

Pan Kau-lung, who specializes in Shainghainese cooking, joined Zhe Jiang Heen last year. The restaurant is just one floor above the association headquarters and often used for events, but club members couldn't keep it a secret. Zhe Jiang Heen is a favorite among Hong Kong gourmands, particularly for its pork belly. Mr. Pan, who prepares a traditional version of the dish, serves only a dozen or so portions a day, so it must be pre-ordered when making reservations.

Mr. Pan talks us through the dish:

Pork belly: Mr. Pan looks for pork, sourced from mainland China, with several alternating layers of fat and lean meat. "Five to six layers of fat is ideal," he said because the fat keeps the meat juicy and tender. The meat is cubed with the skin on, then rinsed in a wok with hot water.

Squid: Chinese cooks love to combine dried seafood with meat, but matching fresh seafood is rare. Mr. Pan says his combination gives "a distinctive fragrance and a much richer flavor." He prefers fresh, large squid, fished from the South China Sea, and blanches it in simmering water before cutting into cubes.

Shanghai braise: Hongshao, which translates to "red braise," is a classic slow-cooking method. To start, Mr. Pan browns the pork over high heat. He then adds ginger and spring onions, followed by Shaoxing wine to deglaze the wok. He adds the squid, which requires less cooking time than the pork, along with soy sauce, rock sugar, cinnamon and star anise. Turning down the heat, he simmers the ingredients for roughly 50 minutes, letting the sauce reduce as the meat becomes tender.

Final touches: Mr. Pan serves the pork and squid on a round plate and garnishes it with blanched green vegetables that are in season. The sauce is dark, glossy and rich with a unique mix of sweet and meaty flavors. Do as the Shanghainese do: Take a few bites, then follow with a sip of pu-erh tea, believed to aid in digesting fatty and rich foods.

{{gwi:1557833}}
Zhe Jiang Heen serves a limited number of its popular pork belly dish each day.

Price: HK$280 (US$36)

Zhe Jiang Heen, 2nd floor, Kiu Fu Commercial Building, 300-306 Lockhart Road, Wan Chai, Hong Kong; Tel. +852 2877 9011

-----------------

Curry That Convinces the Skeptics.

When Ian Chalermkittichai introduced lamb shank to his menu at Issaya Siamese Club in Bangkok, his local customers were wary.

"Thais are really afraid of lamb," he said. "They think of mutton, and they think it's smelly and tough." But by combining it with massaman curry, a paste from Thailand's Muslim populace that is more strongly flavored than the lighter green and red versions common in the country, he has tempted them.

"They like it now," Mr. Chalermkittichai says. "They've never had it like this before."

The dish is symbolic of his global career. Opened in December, Issaya Siamese Club incorporates foods he loves from stints at Kittichai in New York and the Four Seasons Hotel in Bangkok.

Mr. Chalermkittichai now looks after a growing empire, splitting his time between Bangkok and New York, where his new restaurants include Ember Room, a collaboration with celebrity chef Todd English. Mr. Chalermkittichai also owns Koh in Mumbai as well as Hyde & Seek, which like Issaya, is located in Bangkok. He became famous in Thailand thanks to his early 2000s cooking show "Chef Mue Tong" and currently stars in "Iron Chef Thailand."

As a boy, he drove his mother, a food-cart vendor, to Bangkok's wet markets in the middle of the night, returning home after school to help her finish cooking curries that they'd then sell to their neighbors. The massaman lamb is an homage to his culinary roots, fusing modern techniques and traditional flavors. He tells us how he makes it.

Curry paste: Mr. Chalermkittichai's curry uses more than a dozen ingredients, including cardamom, garlic, shallots, cinnamon, coriander seeds and root, kaffir limes, lemongrass, galangal, fresh turmeric, dried red chilies, black pepper and shrimp paste.

One unusual addition: cumin. "It's common in Indian Muslim curries, but not Thai ones," he says. He tosses the ingredients in a dry wok to develop a "roasted" flavor before pulverizing them, using a mortar and pestle, into paste. In Bangkok, red and green curries are more common than this yellow one, but Mr. Chalermkittichai considers it a better match with the flavor of lamb.

Lamb in a bag: He imports grass-fed, organic lamb from Australia, since he can't get equivalent quality from local providers. He sears the shanks in a hot pan before adding the curry paste and coconut milk.

He brings it all to a boil, then removes it from the heat and transfers individual portions into plastic bags which he vacuum-seals. He then steams the bags at 85 degrees Celsius for 10 hours. "This technique is important," he says. "The meat is much more succulent, more than if you do a slow braise in a pot in the oven."

Fresh relish: As a condiment, Mr. Chalermkittichai makes a relish that includes thinly sliced cucumber, chilies and shallots. He pours what he calls "pickle water" - a brine of equal parts vinegar and sugar along with a dash of salt - over the vegetables. The relish serves as a palate cleanser, eaten between bites of the strong curry.

Final touches: When the dish is ordered, Mr. Chalermkittichai empties one of the curry bags - sauce and lamb together - into a pan to reheat, before adding a chunk of sweet potato and some dashes of fish sauce. He transfers the curry to a ceramic bowl that is specially designed by the chef himself and made in Chiang Mai. Steamed jasmine rice and the cucumber relish are served on the side.

{{gwi:1557834}} Massaman lamb shank at Issaya Siamese Club

Price: 690 Thai baht ($22)

Issaya Siamese Club, 4 Soi Sri Aksorn, Chua Ploeng Rd., Bangkok Thailand; Tel. +66 02 672 9040 1

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Comments (30)

lindac
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Wow.....talk about spam....in the guise of stirfry???
cloudy_christine
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Jkom51 has been here for years. She's not a spammer.
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ANATOMY OF A STIR-FRY Excerpt From: The Editors of Cooks Illustrated. “The Cook's Illustrated How-to-Cook Library.” Apple Books. TO STIR-FRY PROPERLY YOU NEED plenty of intense heat. The pan must be hot enough to caramelize sugars, deepen flavors, and evaporate unnecessary juices. All this must happen in minutes. The problem for most American cooks is that the Chinese wok and American stovetop are a lousy match that generates moderate heat at best. Woks are conical because in China they traditionally rest in cylindrical pits containing the fire. Food is cut into small pieces to shorten cooking time, thus conserving fuel. Only one vessel is required for many different cooking methods, including sautéing (stir-frying), steaming, boiling, and deep frying. Unfortunately, what is practical in China makes no sense in America. A wok was not designed for stovetop cooking, where heat comes only from the bottom. On an American stove, the bottom of the wok gets hot but the sides are only warm. 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We prefer to cut the vegetables quite small and add them to the pan in batches. By adding a small volume of food at a time, the heat in the pan does not dissipate. Slow-cooking vegetables such as carrots and onions go into the pan first, followed by quicker-cooking items such as zucchini and bell peppers. Leafy greens and herbs go in last. When the vegetables are done, the aromatics (scallions, ginger, and garlic) are briefly cooked and then the seared meat, chicken, seafood, or tofu is added back to the pan along with the sauce. The result is a complete meal, perfect for weeknight dinners, that takes into account the realities of cooking in an American kitchen. POINTERS FOR SUCCESS We uncovered a number of helpful tips and discoveries in our stir-fry testing. Keep these points in mind as you work through the recipes in this book. FREEZE, SLICE, AND MARINATE PROTEIN Most stir-fries start with some sort of protein, either beef, chicken, pork, shrimp, scallops, squid, fish, or tofu. All protein must be cut into bite-size pieces. We find it best to freeze beef, chicken, and pork for an hour or so to make slicing easier. We marinate all protein, once sliced, in a mixture of soy sauce and dry sherry while preparing the vegetables and sauce. Just make sure to drain the protein before stir-frying. If you add the marinating liquid, the protein will stew rather than sear. PROPER RATIO OF PROTEIN TO VEGETABLES A good stir-fry for four people needs only a three-quarter pound of protein to one and one-half pounds of prepared vegetables. This ratio keeps the stir-fry from becoming too heavy and is more authentic since meat is a luxury used sparingly in China. Serve with plenty of rice (see recipes in chapter six) or over boiled noodles, especially Chinese egg noodles (which resemble linguine) or thin cellophane rice noodles (which look like transparent angel hair pasta). COOK IN BATCHES Most proteins can be cooked in a single batch. 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This is especially important if you are cooking large amounts of leafy vegetables that throw off a lot of liquid, such as spinach. Follow the suggestions in individual recipes. VARY AMOUNT OF OIL BASED ON INGREDIENTS Some foods, such as shrimp and chicken, will not stick much and can be stir-fried in a minimum of oil, no more than one tablespoon. Other foods, such as fish, eggplant, and mushrooms, tend to soak up oil and may require more. See specific recipes for suggestions. PRECOOK VEGETABLES ONLY AS NEEDED We prefer not to precook vegetables, which often adds an unnecessary step. We would rather cut vegetables quite small (no larger than a quarter). However, some vegetables, such as broccoli and cauliflower florets, are difficult to cut this small; they tend to fall apart. Other vegetables, such as asparagus and green beans, may burn on the exterior before cooking through if added raw to a stir-fry. Therefore, we find it is necessary to blanch broccoli and cauliflower florets as well as asparagus and green beans. ADD AROMATICS AT END Many stir-fry recipes add the aromatics (scallions, garlic, and ginger) too early, causing them to burn. After cooking the vegetables, we push them to the sides of the pan, add a little oil and the aromatics too early, causing “causing them to burn. After cooking the vegetables, we push them to the sides of the pan, add a little oil and the aromatics to the center of the pan, and cook briefly until fragrant but not colored, about ten seconds. To keep the aromatics from burning and becoming harsh-tasting, we then remove the pan from the heat and stir them into the vegetables for twenty seconds. VARY AROMATICS AS NEEDED We find that two tablespoons of chopped scallion whites, one tablespoon of minced garlic, and one tablespoon of minced ginger works well in a basic stir-fry for four. But feel free to adjust these amounts based on personal tastes and other ingredients in the stir-fry. For instance, beef works well with more garlic, and many seafood dishes taste fine with more ginger. To add heat to any stir-fry, add hot red pepper flakes or minced fresh chiles with the aromatics. DON'T USE CORNSTARCH IN SAUCES Once the aromatics have been cooked, it's time to add the cooked protein and the sauce. We find that cornstarch-thickened sauces are often gloppy and thick. Omitting this ingredient produces cleaner-tasting and brighter sauces. Without cornstarch, it is necessary to keep the amount of sauce to a reasonable amount (about one-half cup) that will thicken slightly on its own with a minute or so of cooking. USE SUGAR SPARINGLY Even sweet sauces, such as sweet-and-sour, should contain a minimum of sugar. Too much Chinese food prepared in this country is overly sweet. A little sugar is authentic “(and delicious) in many recipes; a lot of sugar is not. READ MASTER RECIPES The following Master Recipe for Basic Stir-Fry is the key to understanding the recipes in this book. Read it carefully. The individual stir-fry recipes in Chapters Three, Four, and Five use the master recipe, with specific proteins, vegetables, and sauces plugged in to create delicious meals. Chapter Six contains recipes for a variety of simple sauces as well as several rice preparations. Master Recipe Basic Stir-Fry NOTE: Figures 1–9, illustrate the essential steps in this recipe. You may use a regular 12- or 14-inch skillet or a 12-inch Dutch oven in place of the recommended nonstick skillet, but you will need to use slightly more oil. This recipe serves four people. 3/4 pound meat, seafood, or tofu, cut into small, even pieces 1 tablespoon soy sauce 1 tablespoon dry sherry 1 recipe any sauce 2-4 tablespoons peanut or vegetable oil 11/2 pounds prepared vegetables, cut into small pieces (none bigger than a quarter) and divided into several batches based on cooking times 2 tablespoons minced scallions, white parts only 1 tablespoon minced garlic 1 tablespoon minced fresh ginger root Basic Stir-Fry 1. Toss meat, seafood, or tofu with soy sauce and sherry in medium bowl; set aside and toss once or twice as you work on rest of recipe. Prepare sauce and vegetables; set aside. 2. Heat 12- or 14-inch nonstick skillet over high heat for 3 to 4 minutes. (Pan should be so hot you can hold outstretched hand one inch over pan for only three seconds.) Add 1 tablespoon oil (2 tablespoons for fish) and swirl oil so that it evenly coats bottom of pan. Heat oil until it just starts to shimmer and smoke. Check heat with hand as before. 3. Drain meat, seafood, or tofu and add to pan. (Add beef, pork, scallops, and squid in two batches.) Stir-fry until seared and about three-quarters cooked, 40 to 60 seconds for fish and scallops; 1 minute for beef, shrimp, and squid; 2 minutes for pork; 21/2 minutes for tofu; and 21/2 to 3 minutes for chicken. Scrape cooked meat, seafood, or tofu and all liquid into bowl. Cover and keep warm. 4. Let pan come back up to temperature, 1 to 2 minutes. When hot, drizzle in 2 teaspoons oil. When oil just starts to smoke, add first batch of long-cooking vegetables. Stir-fry until vegetables are just tender-crisp, 1 to 2 minutes. Leaving first batch in pan, repeat with remaining vegetables, adding 1 teaspoon oil for each batch and cooking each set until crisp-tender, or wilted for leafy greens. 5. Clear center of pan and add scallions, garlic, and ginger. Drizzle with 1/2 teaspoon oil. Mash into pan with back of a spatula. Cook until fragrant but not colored, about 10 seconds. Remove pan from heat and stir scallions, garlic, and ginger into vegetables for 20 seconds. 6. Return pan to heat and add cooked meat, seafood, or tofu. Stir in sauce and stir-fry until ingredients are well coated with sauce and sizzling hot, about 1 minute. Serve immediately with rice.
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shambo
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I agree that most of us do not automatically equate Asian food with braising. I remember the first time I had a clay-pot sort of meal at a local Vietnamese restaurant. It was absolutely delicious. Both pictures look wonderful.
lsr2002
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
That's a very interesting article. I think all the food sounds delicious. I certainly can't get freshly killed chicken but I'm off to look up crystal-boiling. I have used the velveting technique on meat and poultry but never on shrimp - that's something interesting to try also.

Thanks for sharing this.

Lee
lsr2002
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
OK, I've done that with chicken breast but I didn't know what the cooking method was called. I've learned a new term!
ynnej
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Cucumber relish- nothing better. I really enjoyed this post. I was so amazed when my first stir fry came out edible, too. It had to have been one of the first things I ever made.
John Liu
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
When I grew up, our Chinese home cooking did not include any "wok" dishes or even the more modest "stir fry" technique.

Our kitchen didn't have woks, high-BTU burners, or the like. Just a standard range on which my grandmother boiled, steamed, simmered, braised and sometimes pan-fried. My parents didn't wield a wok or stir fry either. In fact, I don't recall any friends or family cooking by stir frying.

Most Chinese-American households then did not have anything special by way of high heat burners, and from my limited experience of home kitchens in Asia, most there didn't either. The typical modest Asian kitchen had a few burners, a rice cooker, and that's about it. In particular, ovens were not traditionally found in Chinese home kitchens back in the day.

Wok cooking is really a professional, restaurant technique. And plenty of Chinese families don't even try to stir fry at home.

Incidentally, roasting and baking is typically left to professionals too. Grandma buys roast pork at the store, rather than roasting pork at home. Buns are steamed on the burner, not baked. No oven, remember.
Islay_Corbel
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
That's interesting. Pork belly for supper tonight!
John Liu
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Continuing to digress, I have read a few different explanations for the lack of ovens in traditional Chinese home kitchens. Economy in fuel (takes less energy to steam buns than to bake them), warm climate (no need for the hearing effect of an oven), lighter/cheaper home construction (before steel and gas, ovens needed masonry). Maybe some of these are partly true.

Chinese cooking tends not to have the big monothic roasted or baked things that have to be cut up at the table. Everything is supposed to be manageable with just chopsticks and the occasional spoon.
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
John, China is a very big country with about 4,000 ethnic diversities. Those times I have traveled to remote villages in China, I have seen many woks used. Wok works very well on wood burning stoves and coal/charcoal burning stoves. Wok is common because the making is very low-tech. I have seen people make their own wok by hammering a round sheet of steel. Cast iron wok/cookware was invented in China because it was cheap and low-tech.

Roasted pork is done frequently on coal/charcoal stoves. The Chinese like steamed bread because they believe baked bread is bad for your health.

dcarch
jadeite
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"Wok cooking is really a professional, restaurant technique. And plenty of Chinese families don't even try to stir fry at home."

I'm mystified by this statement. My grandfather cooked in a gigantic wok over a gas stove. I was just born when he died, so these accounts come from my parents. They said he was the main family cook and everything, even a single egg, was cooked in the big wok. My mother and aunts and all the cooks of their generation cooked in woks over gas. SIL got a separate gas burner to accomodate her wok in which she cooks most of the family meals. My mother and I went shopping together to buy my first wok. I own two and use both regularly, several times a week. My choice of cooktop was dictated by the need for high-heat cooking.

In my travels in China I saw many street cooks in rural areas using woks over propane burners. It's absolutely standard.

Cheryl
lindac
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
My apologies...I was reading in a hurry and saw a picture a restaurant name and a price and assumed it was spam...
Bumblebeez SC Zone 7
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Jkom has been posting for the past decade, she lives the life I want, eating in restaurants constantly (w/ her husband, not traveling, btw).

With her foodie knowledge, I assume she has some fine meals occasionally!
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"Wow.....talk about spam....in the guise of stirfry???"

Actually, it is true, stir-fried Spam is a popular dish.

dcarch
jimster
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
The original post and the follow-ups are very interesting to me.

Regarding the combination of pork and seafood, as well as braising, I've had a wonderful clay pot dish which combined pork and oysters. Excellent! This was served at a Boston Chinatown restaurant which, unfortunately, is out of business.

The second chef is describing sous vide, isn't he?

When we became close friends of a Chinese couple many years ago, I noticed that out friends' kitchen was equipped with stuff like Corningware and ordinary frying pans. I don't recall ever seeing a wok or anything else that looked exotic, although they may have had it. I, myself, was accumulating Asian cooking equipment, which I thought was necessary to my exploration of Chinese cooking. :)

Incidentally, my friend once phoned me asking for a "recipe" for steak. I think she has long since learned to grill a steak without a recipe. She taught us to make gyoza. Of course, she needed no recipe for that.

Is crystal boiled chicken the same thing I know as white cooked chicken? White cooking is basically a poaching technique.

Jim
John Liu
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Weird.

My exposure is more to urban Chinese families. Maybe the ones I knew and grew up with in the US were getting Westernized, but when I lived in and visited Taiwan I didn't see woks in home kitchens either. Street food stalls, restaurants, etc - sure, woks were seen there.

I wonder if it is a rural vs urban thing? A class thing, or a regional cuisine thing? I will ask my father.
lbpod
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
This thread is interesting to me.
I have never understood the advantage of cooking in an
inverted dome, over high heat. Apparently the food
on the very bottom gets cooked first? But then
if you stir it up, how do you keep that cooked food
from not going back to the bottom???
jimster
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"Is crystal boiled chicken the same thing I know as white cooked chicken?"

I should have said "white CUT chicken", not "white COOKED chicken".

White cut chicken uses what I would consider a primitive form of sous vide, one using hot water but no digital temperature control.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: White Cut Chicken
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Jim, "--The second chef is describing sous vide, isn't he? --"

Jim, something is missing in the translation. "transfers individual portions into plastic bags which he vacuum-seals. He then steams the bags at 85 degrees Celsius for 10 hours. "

Steam, by definition is 100 C.

:---White cut chicken uses what I would consider a primitive form of sous vide, one using hot water but no digital temperature control. "

I think that is very good way to explain the perfect texture of White Cut Chicken. BTW, the name "White Cut" actually means, as I was told, that the chicken is so delicious, no sauce or seasoning is needed, just white meat, cut up to be enjoyed plain.

dcarch
cooksnsews
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
We have many Asian-Canadian friends, and none of them do high-heat stir-frying at home. However, most if not all of them cook with woks. These pots are very useful for steaming and braising, or pan frying on ordinary household ranges.
jakkom
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
It's hard to make generalities about over 1 billion people, lol. But I have found that there are many, many Chinese families who don't stir-fry at all, or do it very seldom. Not every American family eats burgers and hot dogs, either, for a local analogy. I guess if others judged American culture by TV ads and billboards, they would think we all lived on a daily diet of McDonald's Big Macs!

But in general, many Asian cuisines do have a "triple path". There is home cooking; there is restaurant cooking; and there is banquet, or feast, food.

I was talking to my Hong Kong-born Chinese-Portugese DH a few weeks ago, and he (finally) remembered to tell me a story about one of his uncles who died over 15 yrs ago. This uncle was famous in the family for making the Chinese broccoli with oyster sauce, or ho yau gai lan as it used to be spelled (I'm terrible with the new spellings, sorry).

I've done this dish, and it seems very simple. Blanch the gai lan, stir-fry it quickly, drizzle it with oyster sauce. What's so hard about it?

DH told me his uncle was so meticulous and painstaking about doing this dish, it was intimidating even to just watch him. Every cut had to be a precise size, the water had to be just the right temperature, the timing was down to the second. The wok had to be heated for XX number of minutes with just enough oil but not too much; the tossing and last-minute steaming done always the same way.

In six decades of eating, DH says his uncle's gai lan remains the best. And every time, because he was so exacting about it, it was always perfect.

But it was a lot of work, done to ensure that nothing was left to chance. He very seldom made it, in fact. Just the news that there was going to be a party and that Uncle had promised to make his gai lan, was enough to make everybody, even reluctant-to-socialize teenagers, show up for dinner!

Oh, and outside of the gai lan, hardly anyone in DH's family, all 200+ members in Vancouver BC, stir-fries. Most of them don't even own a wok, which is interesting because otherwise they've kept their HK culture intact very assiduously. Unlike the American relatives, all of whom by the second generation barely remember their Cantonese, all the Canadian relatives speak Cantonese at home, so that even the fourth generation little kids are bi-lingual.
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"----It's hard to make generalities about over 1 billion people, lol.---"

There are many areas in China I have been to where they seldom eat rice.

dcarch
jimster
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
jkom,

I would love eat your DH's uncle's gai lan. Now I know why mine has been mediocre. Not really bad, but certainly not excellent.

Jim
ruthanna_gw
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I do go past stir-frying but sure don't post about it in the Cooking Forum. Years ago, I tried a simmered/poached whole chicken cooked in a liquid containing star anise and other Chinese ingredients. It was wonderful so I posted the recipe. It contained specific instructions for the cooking technique, including removing the chicken from the pot and letting it cool to room temperature before serving.

After dozens of posts telling me that it couldn't have been cooked long enough, the recipe couldn't have been correct, "I wouldn't serve my family undercooked chicken" , etc., I continued to make the chicken and explored similar dishes but never again posted an Asian recipe here for anything much more complex than a basic stir fry.
jimster
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
ruthanna,

The chicken you describe is what I know as white cut chicken. I think it is wonderful but friends consider it undercooked. Even when we ate it in a restaurant we all love, they found fault with it. When I cooked it at home, they were sure I had screwed up. As explained in the recipe linked in one of my posts above, it will have a little redness in the joints of the legs. To most Americans, any hint of blood in chicken is a no-no and the meat should be almost falling off the bone not firm, yet tender, as it is with white cut.

Like you, I will continue to make it for myself. I won't serve it to others unless I remove it from the bone and slice it before serving.

Jim
jakkom
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
>>There are many areas in China I have been to where they seldom eat rice. >>

Rice only grows in certain agricultural areas. It needs warmth and lots of water. Northern China is high desert plateau; they couldn't grow rice if they wanted to. Rice is prized all the more because in most areas, it has to be brought in.

Guangdong is the most important province in China and always has been, because like Georgia was to the USSR, it is the agricultural heart of the country. Without its rice and water, Beijing would die, and they know it.

Traditionally all Northern Asian cultures, just as the Europeans and Hispanics do in their northern latitudes, depend upon starches that will grow in short-summer climate. Wheat, barley, buckwheat - other countries would add potatoes, rye, quinoa, etc.

As more Koreans move up from Southern CA to Northern CA and open restaurants, we are seeing a shift in the restaurant cuisine to match. Barley tea, buckwheat noodle dishes, etc., are much more common than they were five or ten years ago.
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Posted by ruthanna "I do go past stir-frying but sure don't post about it in the Cooking Forum. Years ago, I tried a simmered/poached whole chicken cooked in a liquid containing star anise and other Chinese ingredients. It was wonderful so I posted the recipe. It contained specific instructions for the cooking technique, ---------- After dozens of posts telling me that it couldn't have been cooked long enough----------- never again posted an Asian recipe here for anything much more complex than a basic stir fry."

I certainly can relate to your sentiment, Ruthanna. There are always some who "Chew with their minds closed and their mouths open"; However, I feel that we all have a duty to share knowledge that we feel are valid, and we should not allow the few insular individuals to rule and to deprive everyone else's right to diverse information. As one of the many admirers of your wonderful cooking, I implore you to do the best you can to bestow on us with your special culinary talent, to benefit participants like myself who are very interested in new and different ideas.

dcarch
John Liu
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I think we talked about bloody chicken a couple years ago.

Basically there is something about how chicken is raised and sold now - very very young - that makes it "bloody" at the joints even when adequately cooked/done. Because people are afraid of bloody chicken, restaurants have to overcook chicken to get rid of every last bit of blood. People actually want to eat shredded pressed and molded chicken tenders, it seems.

I cook my chicken to 140F and don't care if it is bloody or not. It is a dead animal, it once had blood and entrails and a face, that's the truth. I want to it taste good, not pretend to be a McNugget or something grown in a hydroponic vat.
foodonastump
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I agree that we've gotten hyper-sensitive to food safety, and I can be guilty of it as well. While I don't worry about the miniscule risk of consuming raw eggs, salmonella in poultry is a very real concern. Somewhere in the range of 20%, I believe.

From my research of sous vide I've learned that killing pathogens is not just a matter of temperature, but rather a function of temperature over time. On the linked page is a chart that shows how you can safely cook chicken to "medium rare" temperatures as low as 135. This is one area of sous vide cooking I'm interested in, but haven't got up the nerve to try yet.

Ruthanna - I'm sorry to hear that your experience keeps you from posting certain things. I think that for the most part when folks raise safety issues they're doing so with genuine concern and good intent. It might not seem that way to the OP. I hope you reconsider sharing some of those recipes.

Interesting thread. John - please let us know what your father's take is on home wok cooking.

Here is a link that might be useful: douglasbaldwin.com
jadeite
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I also cook chicken to a temperature of around 135-140F. At this stage it is cooked through, but if you cut through the bones, they are red. I only serve white cut chicken at home to family, never to guests. It makes many people uncomfortable, inured as they are to chicken that is cooked to death and bone dry.

If the chicken is being roasted or grilled, it's hard to see the pink or red at the bone, so guests are happy to eat it. I always get requests for recipes and comments on how juicy it is. I can't tell them that's it's because the chicken isn't cooked to 160F or even higher (as my MIL does).

I always brine chickens before cooking. I don't know if that has an effect on safety since it is a form of curing. So far I've never had anyone become ill from eating my chicken sashimi (as DH calls it).

Cheryl

Going past the stir-fry

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