Sorry in re-reading I had a name out of place... Sherry was supposed to read Cari! Thanks

Nick, I don't believe anybody could file hundreds of motions in two years. They have to be served and take at least 30 days, plus they can be continued. No judge would put up with a motion a month from anybody, and they don't get confused that easily about child support. Obviously nobody is getting their own lawyer to object and have Jane declared a "vexatious litigant" on her own motions. If they are really frivolous your attorney can ask for her to pay the costs and fees. I assume you are answering these motions yourself.
What kind of motions could she file to have him avoid responsibility? He could file to lower the amount of child support but there is a limit to how often you can file those. Maybe Cari could go to paralegal school.

Between the two divorces yes there have been that many filed, every issue is its own separate motion. The packets that come in the mail are not envelopes they are document boxes. The last one was over 300 pages and contained 22 separate motions. Here is the kicker... most of the crap she sends is frivolous but the court seems to be letting her do it, something I dont understand. Then there are the motions to appeal motions that already have a judgement. Amazing enough the last court hearing this past august she showed up late for court know why?? She was filing more motions down in the clerks office. These are not motions for child support on our end that was already decided when even the attorney for Child support told the judge that he has a plethera of paperwork from her but none of it had anything to do with child support. He told the judge himself in open court that he couldnt deal with her anymore between the paperwork and phone calls he was fed up. He just wanted w-2s if she had them and if not he would just list her as making min. wage.
As for getting a lawyer we cant afford it, between the child support and other cost of the divorce and daily living a lawyer is out of the question. Honestly this woman should be a debt collector she dosent quit its really crazy, she must spend hours on this stuff and in the process of trying to ruin our lives she is driving the kids crazy... when they call they always say Mom's at it again.. she goes on and on for hours to them even when they tell her they dont want to hear it.. she is obsessed.
As for Cari, she now is fighting motions that go back to 2001 for some overpayment, relief from medical coverage that he was ordered to carry, and reduction of child support because he says hes unemployed. These are just a few that she has filed for Dick, the others like mine are just a way to annoy.

So, let me just make sure I got this straight...Dick and Jane are now married, and are causing problems for both their X's by filing many motions against them. How is Kitten important to the story?

Obviously, Dick and Jane are just after as much money as they can get. But, I don't think it's relevant if Jane works or not; -- Since she looses spousal support when she remarried, right?. I know there are always two sides to every divorce; maybe there is some reason they feel justified doing this???

I really would fork out some money to at least consult with a lawyer. In the long run it would save more money not having to take off work so much. Have they considered counter motions to add to the fun? How about bringing up his "job" in a motion...maybe that will scare them away from wanting to come to court. That "vexatious litigant" thing marge brought up sounds good to me. They really need to consult with someone in the legal profession there to see what they can do. Maybe there are even some free legal services in the area they could check into???? I bet there are some 'Women's Rights' type places that may be able to advise Cari.

I don't think there's any law against a wife filing out paper work for her husband to file a motion..I would guess he would have to sign it though, not sure if you were asking about that specifically, and not sure if an attorney is needed or not, but I would guess the judge would have called them on it by now. Maybe you could call the court house and ask someone there about that.

No, in ohio, unless its stated in the separation agreement that support will end when ex remarries it will continue. And it is important that Jane works because that is figured into child support computations. Even though she has the ability to make 12-15 dollars an hour she refuses because it will lessen the amount of child support she gets. The ages of the children are 21 and 15, and for the last 2 1/2 years Jane lied to child support and the court that the oldest was in school full time so she could collect more $. Child support never even made her produce records from the school just took her word for it. Now we have had to issue a subpoena to the school to get the records. When those are received we can file a motion to have child support re-done (again)
We have consulted with lawyers, they all want too much money up front. To get a court appointed lawyer you have to prove you are poor.... and they go on your gross income...not on the amount that you pay out after support ect. So our income is too high.
I am checking into the vexatious litigant, to see if it applys. TY for mentioning that!
As for sending in motions, we have, but our goal is to stop this, its been 3 years and enough is enough.
BTW, Janes justification is that after 20+ years of marriage she deserves to have everything...and then some,
(she has said that to many people)
Also I apologize, Hundreds were an over statement.... It just feels that way, I counted and there are 126 on our part im not sure how many on Cari's.
I did find something interesting though that im looking into further...
Even if a close personal relationship, such as that of husband and wife, exists between the party and the nonlawyer representative, legal representation by the nonlawyer is impermissible. Palmer v. Bates, No. L94-138, 1994 WL 373497 (Ohio App. Lucas July 15, 1994).

I guess I will keep up the research and hopefully find something that may apply.
We just want our lives back to normal with out the constant dark cloud hanging over our head.

Also Marge assumed this was Nick its not, Its Kitten.
I am engaged to Nick. We plan to marry but that is on hold until this mess is figured out and settled. I believe he should support his kids.. its his responsibility and I would not be with him if he didnt. But I will not let our lives suffer so Nick can support Jane and Dick!

I assumed you were Kitten because I couldn't figure out why she was part of the stroy if it wasn't you -LOL

I think you may be confusing spousal and child support. They are two different things. Child support is still due with remarriage...obviously, because the kids are still his...but I don't think spousal is. Bottom line, though, if Jane doesn't want to work I really don't think she has to (was it court ordered?), or that you should be holding that against her. Many women choose not to work and that's something for her and her husband to decide, not you just because you may benefit.

Is Jane actually representing Dick in court, or just helping fill out paper work? I doubt the judge would hear the case. I know you're just trying to help Cari but you have enough of your own problems to solve.

Someone here should know if a grand a month for two kids, (one in college part time I'm guessing) is all that bad; I have no idea what a normal monthly payment would be. My friend who stayed at home to raise her kids was told by a lawyer that even when divorced, the husband would have to support her and the kids...meaning she would NOT have to get a job and that her "X" would have to take care of everyone/everything.... so it could be worse!

It's not that I don't feel for you, but everyone always thinks the other spouse is the "bad" one in the divorce. And, almost everyone thinks they are paying more than their fair share. That's just how divorce and support goes. There may be more to the stories than you are aware. Then again, Dick and Jane are probably just a couple who like to waste time filing frivolous lawsuits while trying to make an undeserved buck.

Personally, I think there are just some things in life you may have to consult with a lawyer about and this is one of them. And, I'm not talking about getting a lawyer for all the hearings, but just asking these questions to one. But, I would leave Cari's questions out; that should cut your questions. Generally, you just want to know how to stop all the motions.. leave personalities and impressions out of it. They don't care and have heard worse. Just stick to the basics. Obvioulsy, if you can't afford to consult with a lawyer, it may just be something you have to live with.

Good luck; I hope you find something to help stop all the motions so you're able to get married.

Actually in the state of ohio both parents are supposed to do their part to support the children unless they are preschool age or handicapped and need full time care that is provided by one of the parents. There is a way to deem either parent (custodial or non custodial) underemployed for worksheet computations(percentages each should be responsible for providing for the child) This is done to stop the custodial parent from milking the nocustodial parent.Or the nocustodial parent from taking a job with little pay just to avoid high child support. This dosent mean Jane has to work, it just means that they will list her on the worksheet as making X amount of money. Whatever the court feels is fair based on her age, physical ability, work ability and jobs available in her area. Jane worked when she was married before... although it was for her extra "fun" money. She thinks that she should still be able to live like she did on Nicks salary. And since her new husband seems to not want to work or provide that life for her she feels that she should get the money from Nick. We are still paying off her charge cards..one for over 30,000 from a jewlery store. Ohh BTW that grand a month is for 1 child. The other is no longer a full time student and has been working a full time job for over a year now. But because of her saying he was a full time student for the past 2 1/2 years she was able to collect support for him in addition to support for the 15yr old. Also 100 percent of any medical costs. (she collected this until this past July) As I mentioned above a subpeona has been sent to the school for records then It will be a motion to again re-do the last few years of support obligation. I dont have a problem with child support being paid but I have a huge problem with Jane collecting money that never gets used on the kids. She and dick are now residing with her parent and Dick is working under the table for a family business. They drive a brand new car, and she does nothing but shop! And thats great but she files all these motions, and motions for Nick to pay for the motions she files but she wont send things like medical bills for the kids to him... she lets them go into collection and then files a motion to hold Nick in contempt for nonpayment... we live over a thousand miles away and have no idea who the docters are or when they are seen, but by the sep.agrement she is supposed to send copies with in a week and let him know about medical illnesses. When we were able to track some of them down (we had to send court papers to them to release information) She told the physicans offices not to release info to Nick... only Herself and her Husband Dick. Then filed a motion against Nick for invading her privacy....lol There are so many instances of BS that it makes my head spin.
Now the Alimoney as I mentioned above does not terminate on re-marriage unless its been put in the divorce/separation agreement, this I do believe is different than it used to be in the past but im not sure when this was put into effect.
All I know is this woman is hell bent on making us crazy for as long as possible. As it stands now, Our house is in my name, the cars also... his credit is ruined because of her thing with the late medical bills, and her taking off out of state and letting the house go into forclosure(his name was still on the loan but he quit deeded it to her in the divorce)
At this rate we might be married when im 80....lol I just thank god that I never did this to my ex when our kids were growing up... he was a jerk but once it was finished I never would have even thought to try to make him this crazy... I really in my wildest dreams never thought people did this kind of thing... except on TV....LOL

going bonkers, sorry if this is harsh but I was in your situation. I saved my sanity (and my relationship) by butting out and keeping my finances separate from his. Nick is not a child for you to rescue. Let him deal with his ex as he sees fit while you concentrate on building a workable relationship with your future step children. Thank your lucky stars that the support payment is only a grand a month, and that his youngest is 15 instead of 5. DH's kids were 3 and 6 when we met.

We've been married for 17 years. I have comforted him and provided a shoulder to cry on whenever the x: dragged him back & forth to court, bought a new house while we lived in a dump, bought new cars while he drove a broken down truck, moved the kids to a different county, refused to work, took in fosters so her payments from the government don't count as income, *delayed* graduations for both kids to keep riding the gravy train a bit longer, and many other things that I have long forgotten. We don't hear from her now that child support is over. Not even a word of condolence when her ex MIL passed away recently... her children's grandma.

Our house (not his car) is in my name, but he certainly pays half of everything. What he does with the rest of his money is his business. During the lean years, he never hesitated to pick up extra work when needed to take care of his responsibilities while doing his fair share around here.

I'd be going bonkers too if I had spent 17 years researching and trying to give him legal advice. Just love him, that's what he'll need to get through the next 3-4 years. You don't have to carry his baggage.

I really wish it was that simple, I do give him support and he does research on his own, I just help. I wish I could stay out of it, and for quite awhile I did. But there are stipulations she put in the separation agreement that he signed(he was worried more about the kids at that time, and tried to do the right thing)that will affect him till the day he dies. Like 100 percent of his estate goes to his kids, the kicker is that when they separated she got 100 percent of everything, house, cars, furnishings, 401K's, retirement from previous jobs. He was pennyless when we got together. I supported him financially for over a year(second year we were together) when he got laid off and all his income went to them. I did that because I love him. But here is the thing... we work to build a future for ourselves so that when we retire we will be able to get by... god forbid that something happens to him... She will drag me thru the mudd to get his share of whatever we own.. and where will that leave me?? That is why I wont marry him till this is fixed. I dont mind if he wants to leave the kids some money or heirlooms or whatever but I wont loose my husband then loose my home ect for her or the kids. We are not young anymore, I raised my kids and they are all on their own. His oldest is on his own and planning to marry soon. BTW he already has to carry a life insurance policy on himself that goes to them, Its value is 150 thousand (another sep agreement condition) so they are well covered. But I have no doubt that because she has been doing this for the past 3years its not going to stop unless we put a stop to it. I love this man and I want to marry him but it will never happen at this rate... and also he has not had visitation in over 2 years.. only phone calls. Since we now live so far apart the daughter would have to stay for a few days, and since we are not married she wont let her come. (another of the motions we are fighting) But there is a bright note here... the daughter and mom have been having it out.. and she has been telling her she wants to come live with her dad. The daughter is in trouble because she got caught (cell phone bill) calling her dad when her mom wasnt present(she stands in the background and says rude things). So maybe she will want to come and that would be fine, she is a great kid. I guess only the future will tell.

I have absolutely no experience in these things, nor how legal things are handled across state boundaries. So you can tell me that I am way off base. But if none of the money that is being sent to them is being used for the kids, then what happens if you stop sending it? You say you are quite a distance apart (like in another state). So it would mean that Nick could probably never set foot in the state of Ohio again. Is that so bad? Or does this problem transcend state boundaries? I honestly don't know, but just thought I'd throw out the idea.

I wouldn't stop child support payments. He could get in trouble with the law!

Plus, nothing you have said really suggests that the kid(s) haven't been getting the money. Just because the "X" is living well, or a lot beter than you, doesn't mean your child support payment isn't going to the kids. It sounds like Jane's new husband is making quite a bit even if it's not totally on the up and up, and that is why they can afford a new car and she can go shopping. I doubt your grand a month is going to send them into a comfortable retirement. Their income (be it from winning the lottery, robbing banks, or getting free rent from the parents) doesn't mean Nick shouldn't have to pay child support. It costs to raise children...unless the kids are out on the street and being fed in soup kitchens, I don't think you can really know that Nick's money is not going for the child.

I know you are mad about the past and the divorce settlement but that is really something you need to blame on Nick himself or Nick's lawyer. Sorry, but what was he thinking giving her everything and taking all the debt? I have never heard of such a thing! Usually the assets and liabilities are figured and split at least somewhat fairly by the courts. If he gave in way too easily, you can't really blame her. Did he even have a lawyer? And, he should have some visitation; what's up with that?

ps... Maybe I'm just not getting what you're saying..but I really don't think Nick is paying alimony. Maybe you're just referring to it by the wrong name or being sarcastic, but Alimony is NOT the same thing as Child Support. Alimony is a payment specifically to the "X" wife just for her expenses and can be present when there aren't even kids and usually goes away with remarriage. Paying her past credit card billls that were aquired during the marriage was part of the divorce settlement, not really considered alimony..Child support is payment/money for the kids and doesn't stop until the kid become of age. Maybe it will make you feel better to know the money Nick is giving really is child support and for the kids, and isn't alimony or for her. Now if she isn't clothing or feeding the kids and is buying drugs with the money, I'd be a little worried, but that doesn't really sound like the case...although maybe you'll get some money back with the school "mix-up".

And, good luck with getting Nick's daughter. Although, I'm not sure I'd wish a 15 year teenage girl on anyone--LOL! I doubt it will help you much financially, since I'm sure there will be a lot of extra expenses, but at least you will have her in your lives.

Hope you can sort through everything. Within a few years, when the oldest is of age, things should settle down. I'd check with a lawyer about how to change Nick's will, and how to purchase a house, etc... so that you won't be out in the cold if he dies. Again, good luck and remember, "this too shall pass" (Hopefully!).

Here is a link that might be useful: Alimony

Over,
that is not an option first that would ruin his relationship with his kids (the entire reason were in this mess) Second, to do that we would have to change our names, get new SS#'s and probably leave the country! (sometimes I'd like too...lol) But we would rather get this fixed legally. I guess this forum just gives me a place to vent (Id rather vent here instead of give myself a migrane!) But thanks anyway for the great daydream material.... runnin off to lay on a sandy beach with clear blue water, and a fancy drink in my hand!!!! lol I wish!

Carla,
Yeah Dick maybe makin money but if thats the case why hasnt he paid child support for months? (and he was behind then) So how is it fair that she gets support and alimoney(i do know the difference) and her husband wont even take care of his daughter? She is right in expecting Nick to support his kid, thats what I believe too. But what kind of woman will scratch for every last drop of money but helps(actually encourages) her husband avoid supporting his own biochild? That to me is wrong and selfish.

Another thought - if somebody is making money 'under the table', is he paying taxes on that income? If not, the IRS could create a world of hurt for him. :-)

Dick and the way he handles his payments or lack of them is really no concern to you...and really doesn't affect what Nick owes.

Not only are you taking on Nick's problems, but also Cari's, (who you barely know). Their payments and arrangements are their business and aren't an excuse or reason for Nick to not pay, or pay less. I wouldn't get involve with their legalities just on Cari's word and what you see (maye the in-laws bought the car, someone died and left an inheritance, etc).

Nick and Jane's arrangements (and their kids) are the only thing you should even be thinking or worried about.

You're focusing too much on personalities and who is right or wrong, what is fair, what should be, etc...when, in fact, you should be focusing on solving the actual problems.... getting all the orders to stop, getting money back if due for the oldest when not in school, making sure the billing is set up right for the kid's medical bills, and making sure your stuff is protected if you marry, right?

How Jane is living, and how big a bit&h she and Dick may be really doesn't matter. Your hatred for them is going to drive you crazy. They are not worth worrying about. Repeat, they are NOT worth it. Quit thinking about fairness and try to resolve only what needs to be resolved that you can afford to do. Life isn't fair and people aren't nice and you will probably never be able to change Dick and Jane...They've taken enough from you financially, don't let them take your psyche and relationship too.

I dont worry about my relationship, that is very strong and cant be ruined by any amount of problems the ex could cause, believe me shes already tried on a personal level... but thats another story!
What I consider fairness is just what you mentioned... getting the orders to stop ect. ect. As for Cari I just feel for her, we both have been dealing with the same unreasonable people and have alot in common. As for her telling the truth, I know for a fact she is... Ive seen court docs. But that too is beside the point.
But because we are dealing with these types of people it will take working together to make our lives peaceful again. It is eventually going to back-fire on Jane and Dick...they both have in documents and in open court swore to things that were completely false. And by teaming up with Cari(her case is in a different county, same state)
We now have them contridicting themselves between the two.
Hopefully this will help put an end to the lies.
Ohh BTW she now has a pro-bono atty. provided by the state...she had to claim poverty to get that... now its not just us she is milking... Its the taxpayers!

Thank you everyone for your advice and words of wisdom!

Nick and Jane were married for 20+ years so it is quite possible that he could have to pay alimony even after the kids are grown and gone. Especially if she never worked outside the home during the marriage. Either she had a good lawyer and he did not, or he felt outrageously guilty when they split. A grand a month is actually very reasonable for alimony plus child support. Listen to carla35. It doesn't matter if it's fair or not, you can't change it and Nick may not want to.

You should consult a financial professional of course, but I doubt that Jane can take a house, car or retirement plan that is in your name. The tax rate for *married filing single* is higher but that's the price you pay for peace of mind if you marry a man with baby mama drama. BTDT so I totally understand your frustration.

I sure hope Nick realizes how special you are. Not many women would provide financial support for a year without a marriage license.

What would you advise your daughter to do if she got involved with a man in Nick's situation?

bunglogrl,
You hit the nail on the head when you said he felt outraggeously guilty when they split.... he did and the kids were his concern, that they were already living without a father in the home so they should not have to any other changes. He wanted them to stay in the home where they were comfortable, and live like they always had. But she put a stop to that when a month after he left she moved Dick in. Way tooo soon for any kid to accept but that was her choice. Nick didnt want to cause trouble so he let it go. The next thing she did was take the kids and move out of state... without telling Nick. The drama has increased from there. The grand is for support of one kid. The alimoney is 965.00 monthly on top of the support. His goal was to make sure he provided for the kids, mind you he agreed to this because they made a verbal agreement for the kids to finish highschool where they were at.... now 3 years later and 3 states and 5 different addresses enough is enough. Yes he made a mistake and signed papers, something he regrets everyday.. but he honestly was just thinking of the kids when he did it.
I would advise my daughter to stay clear of anyone with a mama drama....lol But if she loved him like I love Nick I would tell her that good men are hard to find and if you find one (even with the drama) love him and help him thru the hard times.... its worth more than all the money in the world.
Thanks bunglogrl for the advice!

bunglogrl,
You hit the nail on the head when you said he felt outraggeously guilty when they split.... he did and the kids were his concern, that they were already living without a father in the home so they should not have to any other changes. He wanted them to stay in the home where they were comfortable, and live like they always had. But she put a stop to that when a month after he left she moved Dick in. Way tooo soon for any kid to accept but that was her choice. Nick didnt want to cause trouble so he let it go. The next thing she did was take the kids and move out of state... without telling Nick. The drama has increased from there. The grand is for support of one kid. The alimoney is 965.00 monthly on top of the support. His goal was to make sure he provided for the kids, mind you he agreed to this because they made a verbal agreement for the kids to finish highschool where they were at.... now 3 years later and 3 states and 5 different addresses enough is enough. Yes he made a mistake and signed papers, something he regrets everyday.. but he honestly was just thinking of the kids when he did it.
I would advise my daughter to stay clear of anyone with a mama drama....lol But if she loved him like I love Nick I would tell her that good men are hard to find and if you find one (even with the drama) love him and help him thru the hard times.... its worth more than all the money in the world.
Thanks bunglogrl for the advice!

"....but I doubt that Jane can take a house, car or retirement plan that is in your name" - I don't doubt it. I don't trust our litigious society to find any way that it can to take away something that belongs to someone else. People lose their homes that they have lived in all their lives because some corporation comes along and wants the property and is able to convince the city officials to condemn the property so they can build there. Once you have shared assets, you are at risk - don't get married yet.

Lawsuits are filed every day that the filer has no chance of winning. But the filer knows that they can drag it out long enough to get a settlement so that the suit will go away because the legal expenses become so expensive. It is coming to a time where we need legislation that dictates that if you file suit against someone and are unable to prove/win your case, that you become immediately liable for all costs and be held liable to pay back those costs. But I suppose if there was such legislation, there would be about 50 % less lawyers in the world.

"we need legislation that dictates that if you file suit against someone and are unable to prove/win your case, that you become immediately liable for all costs and be held liable to pay back those costs"

sounds like a great idea, 'over n under', but do you really expect the little guy to win in a case against a big company with all their high priced lawyers? Or, how about a wealthy husband and his attorney form Harvard versus a poor "X" wife who has only free legal help...who do you think will win that one? Or, how about a rape victim...not always that easy to prove? The little man is already at a disadvantage in our legal system; Making a law like you suggest would mainly be a disadvantage to the poorest people. "Many" worthy cases are brought to the courts by real victims, but are not rewarded due to one reason or another (often the big companies just have better lawyers that can find loop holes). Just because a case isn't won, doesn't mean it wasn't legitimate. I think judges need to use their own discretion on a case by case basis to reward court fees, etc.

Now, fivolous law suits (like it sounds like is one this poster's problem) are quite another thing, and I think judges can and often do make the frivolous filers pay court costs, etc.

Personally, I think 'going bonkers' has some legitimate motions she needs to be filing herself.

ok here is a for instance that I would like some feedback on...
Jane wont send medical bills, she waited until the bills were WAY past due (some in collection) then sent them to the court, the court said send them to the father, she didnt, months later she filed motions of contempt for non-payment on said medical bills. Because these were now part of filed motions we received copies. Looking over these bills I noticed something wrong.. the bills were missing most info... Dr's address/phone# patient billing number...insurance payments made...and anyother deductions.
She had submitted altered bills for the full amount to the tune of over 10,000 dollars of which the majority was paid by insurance and deductions. This was done intentionally and Dr/patient info erased to try to prevent us from tracking back thru insurance(Nick had 2 changes in insurance companies) Now how should a Judge handle this? I have always thought if you commit fraud its fraud... plain and simple. What do you think should happen if you are submitting false documents to a court of law? If you are your own lawyer shouldnt you be held accountable just like an actual lawyer??

Thanks for all your comments and advice it really helps!