uninsulated exterior walls, time for bubble wrap?

15 years ago

My house was built in the 50's. The exterior walls are cinder block, with a brick veneer; finished on the inside with a mortar like plaster on a metal lathe, and a smooth 1/8" skim coat on top of that, which we paint. The thickness of the exterior walls, not counting the outside brick, is 6".

In the winter time, which is what it is now, the walls transmit the outside cold, right through and into the living area.

The temp. of the wall on the inside, is about 25F above the outside temp. So, at 7F outside, the inside wall is 32F. It's like touching an ice cube, but not wet.

The furnace can't keep up with it. It's set to 68F, and that what it is in the interior hall where the thermostat is located. But the middle of rooms with exterior walls are closer to 65F. However, the closer you get to the wall, the more the temp drops. At 2" away from the wall it's 35F.

For an experiment, I placed a 3'x3' piece of bubble wrap directly beneath a double window.

The temp at the bubble wrap was very nearly 67F, while the right next to the bubble wrap, where there was only the regular wall, it was closer to the 35F.

What can I do?

I think even a thin coat of something would do much to help break the cold from getting through.

I can't make a frame and put in Sheetrock. That'd pull in the walls at least 2", which would throw off the corners, the fireplace, the door frames; plus, loosing the space. But then, bubble wrap looks kind of strange too.

Any ideas of what you'd do? Or who I would call for information, ideas? --I wear sweaters, already. I really need to get the temp up. There is a very valuable piano in the living room and it doesn't like cold, nor low humidity.

--My wife may come home and find the living room wrapped in bubble wrap, anyway. (Oh, I can't put anything between the brick veneer and cinder block. It violates code to close the air space.)

The houses here were all built the same way. My new neighbor demolished the house he bought and built a nice, new, insulated one. But that's a bit much for me.

Hope you can help. Or is it down to Lowes for bubble wrap?

bob

Featured Answer

energy_rater_la

8 years ago

you'd do better to start your own thread.

I will tell you this, foil bubble foil isn't good for insulation.

meticulous install providing spacers on both sides of fbf

only gets you minimal R-values.

better off with foam sheathing boards which provide

insulation value & air tightness.

fbf is over sold by its mfg with claims of high R-values.

not true.

read the following link:

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-building-science-HERS-BPI/bid/29497/The-Foil-Faced-Bubble-Wrap-Sham-Understanding-Radiant-Barriers

best of luck

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Comments (17)

lucy
15 years ago
Look up Insulation in the yellow pages and call a company re getting some blown in insulation work done. Not rocket science.
Billl
15 years ago
It might not be rocket science, but it also isn't a very good idea for concrete block walls. Concrete is porous, so anything you put in it as insulator would have to be water resistant. Also, the outside of the blocks would act as a bridge to the cold and transfer a ton of heat no matter what is on the inside of them.

If you can't put insulation on the inside, your best bet would be to work with the air space between the veneer and the concrete blocks. Is it possible to seal that up well and make it a truly dead air space? Sealed air is a very good insulator. You don't want to fill the space, just keep air from blowing into it from the outside.
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Bill, thanks for the reply.. Attached is a photo of the exterior wall. The tub lip will be near the top edge of the lower piece of blue insulation. With the window, the additional furring around it, and the cross furring there is not that much rigid insulation. The plywood on the exterior wall was to take the place of furring strips to move the durarock out to fully overhang the tub. This would also give me more to screw the durarock to. As a byproduct, I hoped to gain a bit more insulation. Is the concern more the plywood (as opposed to furring strips which would allow more air movement), or is it the rigid insulation trapping moisture, or the combination? Would plywood be ok if there was no rigid insulation? From other posts, it was recommended that if using fiberglass with kraft facing, to cut the kraft paper face every foot. This would allow moisture to escape. Since the rigid insulation is not wider than a foot I thought it would allow sufficient moisture migration. As an alternative, I could just peel 1 inch of unfaced fiberglass insulation and place it on the exterior wall instead of the rigid insulation. I did this in the paneled basement that has a similar exterior wall (and it helped). Or if the concern is more the plywood, I could put furring strips in. Yes the existing furring strips were not very level. I replaced 2 (both sides of window), and added another just above the tub lip (for screws). Then with the plywood, shims and screws planned to make the surface more level for the durarock. From your post, I interpret that you may also be suggesting durarock directly on the existing furring strips (with vapor barrier). Thus no plywood or additional furring strips to move the durarock out farther and fully over the tub lip. Floating the wall might be easier, but I have my experience with thinset and tile so hoped to stick with that. For the 1.5 2 inches on the ends, I was going to again use plywood to furr the wall out. I planned to split the difference and make up some of the gap on each end. However, based on your suggestion I now plan to sister the 2x4 on the back wall and put most of the 1.5-2 inches there. Attached is a photo of the floor for completeness. I added another joist (2nd out from wall) between a steel I-beam and a wall that sits on a concrete floor below. The new joist was cross braced to the existing joist along the exterior wall. It was placed to sit under the left set of feet on the tub. The position of the tub feet are marked with white paper in the photo. I then used joist hangers to support the joist to be cut (3rd out from wall). I placed the cross support to sit almost under the right front tub foot. I then cross braced to support the tub left back foot. So all the tub feet will sit directly over a structural member. The tub feet are referenced from someone sitting in the tub facing the drain.
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worthy
15 years ago
This is a frequent question. There are only two answers: you add insulation and a new surface to the outside or you add it to the inside, either on top of the existing finished surface, or to save space, tear it out and start over. Neither are cheap. The only alternative is to seal the home as best you can--windows, doors, attic, basement, especially the rim joist area.

While I was building my current home, we rented a 1,000 sf bungalow built like the op's. The only upgrade was new double pane windows. Heating costs were equal to our new 4,200 sf (10 ft. ceiling, finished basement) home. Cooling costs were 20% higher. And it always felt like we were living in a tent with the winds whistling through.

I wish I could be more helpful.
Debbie Downer
15 years ago
This is very interesting as I have a cement block exterior with only some plaster and lath inside. Same problem of cold coming in although I think mostly it has to do with wind because it can be a cold day but if the air is still the house keeps its heat much better.

How wide does the bubble wrap come? I'm thinking I might just hang it over the walls and windows as a temporary feature in the 2 or 3 coldest months of winter. Kinda weird but what the heck! Its always dark anyway, dark when I leave and dark when I get home. Actually the bubble wrap would let some light through wouldn't it? I'm a believer in creative out of the box solutions, trying to work WITH the house somehow, instead of always struggling AGAINST it...
calliope
15 years ago
Danged shame you couldn't earth berm it. My kids have a house where the entire first story is cinderblock, with only the southern expose done in glass. I pay more for my newspaper each month than their fuel bill. LOL.
tryinbrian
15 years ago
Well, I agree with the others that you are pretty much between a cement block & a hard place - those type of houses were pretty much dependent on cheap energy.

What I would try, however, would be to glue extruded styrofoam boards, probably 1", or even 3/4", to the present wall and then glue new wall board to the styrofoam and finish it. This would bring your wall in less than two inches and would give you the most bang for your buck (and work). Most construction adhesives would handle this job.

Pick the easiest room in the house to try it on (e.g., a bedroom with only one outside exposure wall and one window) just to give you an idea of how much it will help. You will have to remove trim and extend all the jambs, etc, but I think the increased level of comfort will make the effort worthwhile.
Debbie Downer
15 years ago
How about polyurethane foam in the cavities? In my case it would go between the lathe & the cement block exterior, about 1 1/2 - 2" Not sure how I'd get it in there, probably drill holes. Would there be condensation issues? I'm having trouble grasping these concepts....

I don't know how applicable that is to the OP's problem.
mightyanvil
15 years ago
Low density expanding foam can be injected into the block cavities from the inside of the house through 1/2" holes. The only other choice is to add 3/4" to 2" thick sheets of rigid polystyrene foam insulation between furring strips and cover it with drywall.

Here is a link that might be useful: injected foam
energy_rater_la
15 years ago
I remember living in a house like that growing up.
We cleaned and cleaned the bedroom and then found that the smell was comming from the headboard of the bed that was in contact with the exterior wall.
Got rid of the headboard and kept all furniture 3" away from the walls.
Now I know why it happens.
insulating to the interior as described above or the foam injected into the blocks would be the only ways I would know to solve it. for climates where the vapor barrier is to the inside it would work, for climates where the vapor barrier is to the exterior..frame and insulate interior of walls.

best of luck to you!
Debbie Downer
15 years ago
But, if you can put rigid polysterene between furring strips and drywall over, then why not FOAM between furring strips and plaster/lathe over? Am I missing something?

So it would be- cement block (exterior)
foam + firring strips (middle)
plaster and lathe (inner interior)

I'd put the foam in thru holes drilled in the plaster & lathe

If that works it would be SOOO easily do-able and make my tenant very happy! (she lives in the cold apt.) But I want to be completely sure that I don't create mold/moisture.

Back to the OP, look what I found ---

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/bubblewrap.htm.
goingpostal9
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I have a hand hewn log home that sits in the woods. Nobody but an occasional deer or squirrel sees it. I was wondering how bubble wrap would work on the outside? I thought about just doing east & west sides with 48" medium bubble putting batons every 4'. Any comments?
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
8 years ago
+1 to energy_rater_la comments. If I had a dime for every $1 of BS radiant barrier application sold, I would have a team of people typing this response. Are there applications where RB work, absolutely. As a primary insulation is not one of them though.
tim45z10
8 years ago
How about floor length curtains, spaced an inch or so from the wall?
User
8 years ago
Aerogel batting ... for the thickness, the best insulation for stopping wall drafts. Install it on the inside, covered by sheet rock.

http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/spaceloft/
energy_rater_la
8 years ago
I'd not invest in aerogel when there are so many products

that aren't so shy about listing R-values. ( the standard

to which building insulation products are held)

just my opinion, based on spec sheets from link above.
User
8 years ago
Energyrater ... the values for aerogel "fabric" vary wildly depending on your installation method. It's being used extensively in Europe to retrofit those old (really OLD) housing things where you can't mess with the exterior and every inch counts. The thermal break it provides increases comfort out of proportion to the actual insulating factor.

uninsulated exterior walls, time for bubble wrap?

energy_rater_la

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