Chisue, I'm always glad to see this topic talked about. I feel very strongly about it after my very bad reaction.

I had Versed added to the list of drugs to which I am allergic, but this list is in the file kept by my primary care physician, and apparently never makes it out of his office. Every time I've seen a specialist or had a procedure done somewhere, I'm asked what I'm allergic to. Since there's a number of drugs on my list, I always wonder if I've mentioned them all. I've started carrying a little folded card that lists them--a gift from the dermatologist's staff.

I was also advised to print NO VERSED over my signature on all permission forms. There's always a bunch of these to be signed before any procedure.

An 81-year-old friend wrote to me recently asking about my experience with cataract surgery. I'm sure my reply wasn't quite what he expected, as 3/4 of it basically said, "Stay away from Versed."

PS: If a staff member asks for details on your "allergy," tell them Versed makes you agitated. Memory loss, in my experience, doesn't seem to impress them, but an agitated patient is something they want to avoid.

I had Versed twice in the last year, once for building up bone loss prior to a dental implant, and a couple of weeks ago for the implant itself, both done by an oral surgeon. Fortunately both times were fine, I thought I was "out" but they say it's "conscious sedation" that you don't remember.
I think it's the same stuff they give for colonoscopies, which I also have had. Unfortunatley the first Dr didn't give me enough (this was about 15 years ago) and I woke up yelling, I went to a different Dr years later and told him about my experience and it went fine the second time....
(I should have another one done soon..not looking forward to that!)

Thanks for the 'back story' about becoming agitated, Susan! I'll print NO ASPIRIN or NASID's - NO SULFA - NO VERSED. Not a long list. Maybe I should ask that THEY sign too, and give a copy to DH.

Maybe we are *creating* mentally impaired people -- who will need medical care, (ware)housing, other profit-producing services. Insurance companies could sell more long term care!

This is interesting. I never thought about it. Do they give Versed for most surgeries? Just curious. I had major surgery in 2006 and I guess that at that time, I didn't know who my daughter was. I do now but wondering why I wouldn't have known her. I guess I knew my husband and that was about it. By the way, that's the only surgery (minor or major) that I've had. Versed seems like something I'd like to stay away from.

Scissors, I believe most hospitals use it for most surgeries and other procedures like endoscopies and colonoscopies.

Chisue, what sort of reaction do you have to Sulfa? My parents told me that I was allergic to it, but I'm not sure how it manifests. I've always stayed away from it.

Hate to say it, but I think you might have something there about how we're creating mentally impaired people.....

LOL I had Versed for a dental surgery appointment and when I went back a week or so later, everyone.....I mean everyone stopped me in the hallway and said "I remember you, you were so funny!" Sadly I never did find out what I did or said that was so funny but I must have amused the whole staff. I think I am also going to put it on my list of do not give.

I had Versed for a colonoscopy and didn't remember the procedure, which was the desired effect. The memory loss was only temporary and only while the drug was in my system. That's what it's for.

I hope I didn't act goofy on Versed (IV) during my dental surgeries...that's one reason I never wanted nitrous oxide
(laughing gas), I heard people act so silly on it...might be cute for a kid but not this old lady...

Aside from what has been mentioned, it is not unusual to lose some memory. The older you are the more possibility, but it does come back.

I haven't had the memory loss, but Versed did not do the job for me during a colonoscopy and I knew/felt everything. Stupid doctor kept telling me I wouldn't know a thing afterwards. I do remember everything and will never forget it. Had to go in for a second one a month later. Even though he upped the anesthesia. I was still aware.

Obviously I will never go back to the guy. As with cataract surgery, they line you up like cattle. Especially if it is an off site surgical center. Choose a doctor that has their own on site.

There are now great designed bracelets and necklaces to hold your alergy or important info. My age tells me I should be using one.

I think it is a bit misleading to imply that *everyone* should avoid Versed & recount their own personal horror story to drive home the point. Anyone can have an unexpected reaction to any pharmaceutical. So you tell the dr you're "allergic" (read: scared because of what you read on the internet) & he uses an alternative drug, then you have a bona fide reaction to that drug. Now what are you gonna do the next time you need conscious sedation? My advice for anyone who is contemplating surgery or a procedure would be to discuss any concerns or questions with you physician & anesthesiologist.

As to the person whose dad had esophageal ca & was getting rapidly senile..... you've taken one variable (the Versed) & pinned it as a cause/effect. What about the fact he is AGED? What about he might have metastatic brain cancer? What about ALL the other medical history, medications he's on & all the other possibilities. My point: it's wrong to pick one thing & lay all the blame there, or even to imply it, imho.

Trying to calm the irrational fears of those who might have Versed used in their future:
In my immediate family (dh, ds, & me) we have had Versed used @ least 10 times with NO untoward effects. Did we remember anything about the procedure itself? NO...... just as intended with the use of Versed. We all still have all our mental faculties. In addition, as a nurse I saw Versed used many, many times & cared for many, many patients following its use. But I never saw anyone who experienced an untoward effect related to Versed.

I am glad that you brought up this topic.

I have been given Versed twice in the past few months (endoscopies) and am finding this discussion interesting. As far as I know, it has not caused problems for me.

I just had Versed last week for an endoscopy. I personally asked for very light sedation as I didn't want to be completely out of it. I have more anxiety about sedation/being put under than of procedures. They gave me just enough to make me feel very good and relaxed, but I was awake/mostly aware of what was going on. I didn't even need to sleep it off, I was wide awake sitting in recovery, basically just felt high. My only complaint is that I had a killer headache for several days after the procedure.

Everyone should just do their own research and make informed decisions. My doctor had told me prior to the endoscopy that I had no choice but conscious sedation if I wanted the procedure done. When it came time, they told me I could have it completely free of sedation if I wanted, my choice. A few years ago I had to have a hysteroscopy procedure so they could take a look in my uterus. My doctor told me that general anesthesia was my only option. I was scared for weeks about being put under, not the procedure. When it finally came time to have the procedure, I found out I had the option of getting a spinal block and just being numbed from the waist down and not completely knocked out. I immediately felt better, and opted for that. I was wide awake during the whole procedure.

For both of these procedures I wasn't given options (even when I asked!), I had to INSIST. Doctors prefer you to be knocked out so they don't have to deal with you, IMO. Take your medical care into your own hands. You have choices, get informed about what you are having done and ask lots of questions. I know some people just want to be knocked out, but I prefer to not take the risk of being put under unless absolutely necessary. I thought the idea of being so sedated that you can't even breathe on your own anymore (general anesth.) just to have a scope with possibly minor surgery in my uterus was ridiculous. I saw no reason to be put under for that. But apparently everyone else is fine with it because everyone in the surgical and recovery room was shocked I was awake.

"Doctors prefer you to be knocked out so they don't have to deal with you, IMO" is an irresponsible statement. There are so many things to consider with each surgery/procedure/sedation/anesthesia that you don't know or understand. "Take your medical care into your hands"? Really? Good luck with that.

I almost didn't post to this thread, because there are so many, many things to consider and I really had to make sure what I was posting was understandable. This is a complex subject and people study for years and years to provide these services.

Being informed is one thing, but being "informed" without the education to back it up is dangerous.

Well said both Sleeperblues and beeohio.

DH has had Versed 5 or 6 times over the last two years. The anesthetist and/or nurse anesthetist has always had him sign a form saying he will refrain from signing any legal documents for at least 24 hours. After the procedure they come in, give the post-op instructions to both of us, and make sure that I know there is a possibility that DH will NOT remember the conversation. Sometimes he did remember the conversation, sometimes he didn't. It didn't affect the rest of his memory.

This is normal, folks. It takes a while for the drugs to completely leave your system.

And another thing - why aren't you all taking in a list of your medications and OTC supplements to every doctor appointment?

DH is on 4 prescriptions and a couple of supplements, including aspirin.

He has a general practioner, a cardiologist, a urologist, and a gastroenterologist at the moment. That's a lot of doctors, and it doesn't even count the urgent care clinic he ended up in over the holidays.

We keep the list of meds on the computer, update it every time he adds or subtracts a med, and print it out and take it to EVERY SINGLE APPOINTMENT! This is on you to do as an informed consumer of medical services. Clearly you all have computers, and this isn't difficult.

I keep a copy of the list in my wallet, too, in case we are in an accident.

Clearly, if you have a reaction to a med, you should absolutely tell the doctors. But to refuse a medication, when you've had no adverse effects, on the basis of internet anecdotes is pretty foolish.

As I said in my post above, memory loss is a desired effect of Versed.

It sounds to me that some people have assumed that memory loss from Versed means "permanent" memory loss. Just to be clear, it's "temporary" memory loss during the procedure while being given the drug.

Sleeperblues and Beeohio make some good points, and I can't argue with them. I was given Versed a number of times over the years, and although I've never been comfortable with the concept of experiencing pain and simply not being able to remember it (except on a subconscious level), I never had problems with the drug until I was around 60. At that point I noticed short-term memory loss following administration of Versed.

Oldgardener, although the intention is for the drug to provide temporary memory loss, the reality is that for many people the memory is dramatically affected for a period of time beyond the procedure. I noticed that with each Versed experience it took me longer to shake the brain fog and get my memory back. The experience of trying hard to hold onto a thought while feeling it slip away is not pleasant.

After going through this more than once I learned (yes, on the Internet) that Versed poses some risk to the elderly because the older the patient the more likely memory will be affected afterward. This was certainly true for me when I was given Versed in January last year. After that experience, I said, "Never again." But then a few months later I had my cataract surgeries.

That experience was the end of the Versed line for me. My current concern is for the people who will react badly to Versed and have no clue what caused their symptoms. As I wrote in my blog, if symptoms can make a delayed appearance, how many are going to make the connection between their terrible mental state and the nice little sedative they were given more than a week ago? And my short-term memory, BTW, was affected for months.

I don't want this to happen to anyone else, and this is why I feel it's important to keep telling my story. I was lucky. I got back to normal. And I want to stay that way.

sleeperblues, that's why I said "in my opinion". I understand there are things I don't know about, which is why I do a lot of research when it comes to anything that involves my body, and what's needed to keep me healthy. I DO believe it is easier for doctors to have you put under so they prefer it that way, and I'm allowed to have my opinion and am not irresponsible for stating that opinion. It just seems as though people are put out for everything...and there is a risk when you are put under. People die due to anesthesia. I think that in some cases it's an unnecessary risk. Just because something is now the status quo, does not mean it's right for everybody.

By taking your medical care in your hands, I simply meant to do research yourself and make informed medical decisions, I thought that was obvious. People often won't advocate for themselves when it comes to their medical care because they are intimidated. Doctors and nurses are just humans and can be wrong too, people need to do what's right for them. People should look into things themselves and not just go along with things because a doctor told them to. I believe everyone should ask questions and advocate for themselves, and not just assume that their doctor knows everything.

Sorry, but what I find irresponsible is believing everything someone tells you because they went to medical school. There are lots of other factors involved in the health care system...it's a business and it's not just about what's best for the patient. You have to look out for yourself.

Really nice to have so much diverse knowlege on the KT!

Sleeperblues -- Is there some reason I couldn't opt for something OTHER than Versed for a colonoscopy or just skip that part? Is there another sedation with a short 'half life'? (What's the 'starts with p-r-o' sedation that killed Jackson?) Is there a need for the patient to be semi-conscious durng a colonoscopy?

I think we all understand the *intended* purpose of Versed: to wipe memory of a procedure. It's the possibility that it may wipe other memory that's being brought up as a concern. Has there been any follow-up, beyond a phone call the day after a procedure?

I've already had a couple negative outcomes while following later-disproved 'conventional medical wisdom' -- like being prescribed hormones after menopause 'to fight heart disease'. Whoops! Mistake. Doesn't help the heart. May cause breast cancer. 'Science' changes.

Susan -- Re: Sulfa.. I've had sinus infections since my late 20's -- maybe earlier, since I was not a robust child. Sulfa would make short work of the infections...until the day I stepped out of the shower, looked in the bathroom mirror, and saw that I was uniformly bright red from head to toe. No more sulfa.

After the last two dental surgeries, with Versed, I wish I had asked for it for 2 root canals and another gum infection
surgery before, done by another Dr. I'm not afraid but it was very uncomfortable sitting still all that time when I could have been relaxed. When I asked for sedation the nurse said it was only offered in his other office, about 45 minutes away. I opted to just have it done with the shots.
(My only complaint would be the colonoscopy done years ago where they didn't give me enough and I woke up twice, in a lot of pain...I still fear that may happen again)

(The oral surgeon said he used Versed, Fentanyl, Propofol,
and something else, so it wasn't just Versed..)

Chisue, we are aware in the anesthesia community that the drugs we give people may have negative effects on them days, months, or years after surgery (particularly versed and particularly in the elderly although concerns with peds are now occurring) but there just aren't studies done to document this. The overwhelming majority of people can receive versed safely, so I wouldn't worry about it. The way I do my sedation for colonscopies is versed/fentanyl in the beginning while placing monitors and oxygen, have the patient turn on the side and get comfortable, then start giving the propofol. Works like a dream, patients wake up quickly and many say "I was wondering when you were going to start". I rely more heavily on the propofol, which is very short acting, and by the time people leave the hospital they feel great.

To answer your question, I don't see any reason you couldn't have your procedure without versed. I wouldn't lie and say I'm allergic, I would talk frankly with whoever is going to administer your sedation and relay your fears. They may have to use more propofol than they normally do, but you should get through it fine.

Pekemom, the other medication was probably an antiemetic so you didn't get nauseated. What your oral surgeon used is the standard mix.

Sleeperblues -- Thanks a lot for that. I have never had an opportunity to speak to the anesthesiologist until just before being prepped, and goodness knows I've graced many an OR. Yes, propofol is what I was thinking of. So...I *could* get wheeled in, lie down in position, and get just propofol for a colonoscopy?

I remember being in the OR years ago for ovarian surgery (before 1970). I talked to the nurses. I heard someone say, "Oh, thank goodness, a THIN one!" I wasn't sedated up to the point after they'd draped me. I don't remember the procedure. (I do remember the clown GYN who should not have been getting his kicks by trying his hand at this surgery.)

Chisue, propofol is all I got for my colonoscopy, and it was very satisfactory. My gastroenterologist uses propofol alone for endoscopies, too.

I wanted to tell you that when I entered perimenopause I battled with the cardiologist I had at the time; the issue was hormone replacement therapy. She insisted I needed it to prevent heart disease! I insisted I wanted no part of it. She and I eventually parted ways.

I wonder if my sulfa reaction is like yours......? We'll never know. :-)

Sleeperblues, thanks for the info.. I was very pleased with the sedation results. I am just sorry the other Dr (endodontist) didn't sedate me.
Apparently if you don't fuss some of them think it's not necessary to make you as comfortable as possible.
My husband used to get nitrous oxide, just because it made him comfortable and made the time go faster. He doesn't get it anymore since the price went up and he didn't want to pay more but he was never afraid of going to the dentist.
I never tried it because I heard of people acting loopy. I think my Mom got it years ago when she had all her teeth pulled and my Dad said she cried off and on all the way home, it was a side effect. I have so much dental work done (and am grateful that it can be done) that I wish I could just sleep through it. As I age it gets harder, not easier.

Propofol is a MUCH safer drug that my gastroenterologist, whom I trust implicitly, has administered to me for colonoscopies and endoscopies with no residual cognitive/neurological effects. On the other hand, I recently had an invasive test called a transesophageal echocardiogram (TEE) performed by a cardiologist, and the anesthesiologist insisted on using Versed despite my apprehension about the drug (I vaguely recalled some negative anecdotes about it). I've been experiencing cognitive impairment (e.g., inability and hesitancy in writing complete sentences; I'm a writer by profession) and the traumatic aftermath of the "temporary" amnesia that was inflicted by Versed before, during, and after the test. Versed is a barbaric drug that should be banned.

Oh, sorry to hear your experience, joerich73! Hope some more time will get it out of your system and you'll be back to normal again. Make sure this is noted on your medical records...NO VERSED.

When DH had a routine colonoscopy this year the staff acted amazed that I would even ask if they used Versed. Oh, no, they said. (Same GI guy; same anesthesiologist group -- now they act as though it wasn't 'routine' before.) I'm still keeping it on my chart as a no-no because I'm "allergic" to it.

I had Versed for a colonoscopy years ago and woke up twice, it was very painful....now they use Propofol, no problems for me.....

I totally concur with Mary_C_gw, 'He (my DH and I also) has a general practioner, a cardiologist, a urologist, and a gastroenterologist at the moment. We keep the list of meds (and all past surgeries/procedures) on the computer, update it every time we add or subtract a med, and print it out and take it to EVERY SINGLE APPOINTMENT! This is on you to do as an informed consumer of medical services. Clearly you all have computers, and this isn't difficult.

We keep a copy of the list in our wallets (and glove compartment), too, in case we are in an accident.' Italics are mine.

Clearly, if you have a reaction to a med, you should absolutely tell the doctors. But to refuse a medication, when you've had no adverse effects, on the basis of internet anecdotes is pretty foolish.'

I personally have had excellent results with Versed for both types of scopes.

Because I had blind faith in the team, which was recommended by my cardiologist, whom I trust implicitly, as one that he would take his family to, I have no idea what I was given when I had my aortic valve replaced, but was very happy to hear "Wake up, its all over"!!!

Just as an aside, Propofol is one of the drugs attributed to Michael Jackson's death, albeit used for the wrong purposes, so lets not jump to any rash decisions.

Just a note -- when I had my ankle surgery 3 weeks ago, they asked me if I wanted a spinal block or general anesthesia. So, some surgeons still ask. I opted for general because the idea of something being injected into my spine -- I've had a fair number of back issues over the years -- gives me the willies, and because I'd have to undergo surgery on my stomach -- and I loathe being on my stomach for any period of time whatsoever. So I went to sleep and it was all fine.

Re laughing gas -- I had that for oral surgery when I was a teen -- I woke up crying and maudlin not due to any pain but this sudden drug-induced bout of nostalgia for a couple of forever-lost teeth! Crying gas in my case!

wantoretire -- Doctors get propofal for THEIR colonoscopies. They always did, even when we patients were being given versed prior to the procedure. Now they have extended that 'courtesy' to their patients. Versed lingers. Propofal has a short 'life' in your system.

While I do not exhibit an allergic reaction to versed while it is administered, I have experienced the mental fog for weeks afterward. When this was pooh-poohed years ago, I decided to just say I am 'allergic' in order to avoid a drug for which there is a superior alternative.

As for Michael Jackson -- what drugs DIDN"T he take? (Extraneous to this discussion.)

As I said, just an aside.

Regarding Versed, ChiSue said, "I'm still keeping it on my chart as a no-no because I'm "allergic" to it."

Allergic reactions are different than negative side effects. An allergic reaction can result in a life-threatening situation (e.g., anaphylaxis), whereas a negative side effect is an uncomfortable reaction to a medication (e.g., nausea, vomiting, dizziness, stomach pain, itching).

Doctors don't want to prescribe a medication for someone when they know the patient will experience uncomfortable reactions if there is another medication that can be given that won't result in adverse reactions. However, they will give a medication that causes an uncomfortable reaction if that medication is the only thing that will "cure what ails you." They can prescribe other medications and/or treatments to take care of the negative reactions -- the main objective is saving your life or curing a disease.

So, JoeRich73, what you have experienced after being given Versed may not be an allergic reaction, but in your case it is an negative side effect, so you'd be justified in stating that you have adverse reactions to it. The medical personnel will want to know what reactions you experience, so be prepared to tell them. You can easily do a Google search for side effects of Versed, and then list any of them that may apply to you.

Versed is evil! Use a Sharpie to write NO VERSED on your forehead prior to any surgical procedure! If you don't, some medical person will try to put it in your IV even if you have already told them that you are allergic to it. It messes with your brain and never goes away no matter what they tell you. Short term my a$$. No pun intended.

My wife is allergic to Versed. She has always been sensitive to meds and even perfumes. With Versed she goes psychotic, really out it it. First time was a colonoscopy. It was like "Wham bam thank you ma'am ", send her home and bang, she goes out of it! I was afraid she was going to try to try to kill the doctor!!! She turned from a very calm person into a psycho. Took months of seeing a Psychologist and some scrips to bring her back. She still takes one years later. But the PTSD of the experience never left. And try to get doctors to work with her is next to impossible. Some have been great, but they are far and few between. Two different doctors ran the nurse anesthetists right out of the operating room. The most recent, a eye surgeon, said he would deal with it, but show up for the procedure, and the nurse anesthetists didn't want to listen. She ended up removing the IV herself and leaving. So much for caring doctors. Now off to search out a new eye doctor who cares!!! So much of patient consent and informing the patient of their rights! It appears that we have no rights.

It can appear to the staff in the OR that 'there's no lasting reaction to Versed', but they aren't THERE in the following days to see the patient struggle with memory tasks -- and then there's the fact that MD's were refusing it for their colonoscopies 'because they had to go back to being MD's' in a few hours.

I had Versed on Halloween a for cataract surgery and thought I had a reaction which I mentioned to the ophthalmologist. They also used it for the second operation and everything was fine...no reaction at all.

This is off topic but my doctor did put on my chart NO prednisone after I told him about my experience with poison ivy last summer. So this Sunday in Parade magazine, Jane Pauley was given this ten years ago when she had a bad case of hives. She became manic and then was diagnosed as bipolar and still takes meds for it. So I'm very glad I will never have to have prednisone again and I sympathize with Jane.