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foodonastump

Rookie canning question

foodonastump
14 years ago

All this talk about hot food had me look up Annie's Habanero Gold Jelly recipe. It says to process 10 minute in a BWB. My questions are:

- Does that mean just in unpressurized boiling water? If so, can I just do it in a stock pot?

- If I can't just do it in a stock pot, is there any reason this recipe really has to be processed in the first place or can I just store it in the fridge? (I really have no desire to buy canning equipment beyond some jars.)

Thanks!

Comments (36)

  • marlingardener
    14 years ago

    The jelly can be processed in an open boiling water bath (that means not pressurized, and perhaps without having a lid on the container). A stock pot can be used, but I'd suggest putting an open metal grill of some sort on the bottom, to keep the jars from having direct contact with the hot pot's bottom. I use a round cake cooling rack that fits my medium size stock pot. Although you don't want to invest in canning equipment, you will really need a jar lifter to get the jars out of the bath without scalding yourself! When removed, place the hot jars on a double thickness of toweling, so the hot jars don't suddenly meet a cold countertop.
    You could probably store the jelly in the fridge without processing it, but it might be best to try a small batch that way and find out how it does.

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    (Psst....don't tell....but for jelly I don't even do the boiling water bath thing, particularly for jelly that contains vinegar. I just boil the jars for 20 minutes and take them our of the water with tongs and pour the very hot jelly into them....cover with melted parafin while they are still very hot, wipe the lip of the jar and place on it the lid which has been in simmering water for 5 minutes and the ring....and listen for the Ping ping ping. Don't tell , because it's not blue book recommended, but my mother did it that way and my grandmother and great grand mother and so have I for about 50 years. Hundreds of jars and only 2 possibly 3 that I remember have ever shown any mold.
    Our secret...oK?)

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  • dgkritch
    14 years ago

    Yes, you can process in a regular stock pot.
    Yes, you need something under the jars to keep them from direct contact (an old dishtowel even works, it won't burn because of the water).
    Yes, you can make it and just store in the fridge if you think you'll eat it up fast enough!!
    Yes!!!! The up-to-date science requires boiling water bath processing for safe, long-term storage.
    Yes, you can use parafin, but why? Why risk the hard work to mold?

    The stockpot needs to be large enough so that the water covers your jars by an inch or two.

    Marlingardener's instructions are correct by today's standards.

    And...You "can" (pun intended) get by without the jar lifter if you want to scoop out boiling water until you can safely grab the tops of the jars, but they are pretty darned cheap for the huge convenience!!! :)

    Just go for it, I'm bettin' you'll like it!
    And if you decide canning is fun....come on over and check out the Harvest Forum!

    Deanna

  • annie1992
    14 years ago

    FOAS, BWB is just boiling water. I used a stockpot for years, with a dishtowel on the bottom to keep the jars from breaking if they boiled around against the bottom or the heat was too direct. A towel WILL float up, but the jars will keep it weighted down after you put them in the pan. A round rack is much better, like the one in the bottom of my pressure cooker or a cake rack and someone said they just wired together old canning rings, another punched a few holes in an old pie plate, turned it upside down and used that. You WILL need tongs or something to take the jars from the boiling water, a jar lifter is cheap and although I spent years removing jars from the pot with a pair of tongs, it's the best couple of bucks I ever spent.

    I don't like paraffin either. I know LindaC does it and although it's not approved by the USDA as a canning procedure, jam is one of the safer products you can process at home. Botulism is not an issue and if it's moldy, well, toss it out, don't eat it. I'd eat jam with paraffin seals and never think twice. In fact, LindaC sent me some a couple of years ago and I enjoyed it a lot.

    I just don't like working with paraffin. I've actually had a pan of melted paraffin catch on fire, I have to melt it in a pan and the cleanup is a PIA, I WILL burn myself with hot wax, guaranteed, and I often seem to get a bubble or something in the paraffin and don't get a good seal, so I don't use it. I slap a flat and a ring on the jar and pop it into the boiling water for 10 minutes and get a good seal without the mess.

    You can store the stuff in the refrigerator for a long time, if you'd rather, but even the original "small batch" makes 3 or 4 half pints, that's a lot of jelly to use up in a couple of months.

    Annie

  • annie1992
    14 years ago

    Deanna, you and I must have been typing at the same time!

    Annie

  • foodonastump
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Yeah you guys made pretty much the exact same comments - I guess they're right!

    Thanks for the advice. I haven't found canning equipment locally and I really need to stop ordering kitchen stuff. Today UPS brought my Mario Batali lasagna pan that I knew I didn't need when I ordered it. I'm pretty annoyed at myself, although it is nice.

    Parafin - That bought me back a while. My mom used to use that. I wonder if she ever sterilized the jars? I know she never used real canning jars or lids, just old jelly jars. If that didn't kill me, I'm sure Linda C's method wouldn't either, LOL!

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    I have a small garage sale pan that is just for melting parrafin....and when it's melting I never take my eyes off of it. And your jelly is hot, your jars sterile and your parrafin hot, as I said, out of thousands of jars of jelly and jam I have put up I can only think of 2 or 3 times when the jam got mold on it.
    I most often use lids which seal, because I can mail them, but I sometimes use a stemmed wine glass or a glass Christmas mug and once an antique bowl.
    To me it's lots easier than doing the BWB when you are doing a large batch of maybe a dozen jars....when you are done, you are done....no boiling 6 jars and removing and boiling another 6 jars....etc.
    The method won't kill you...won't grow botulism....and if by some chance something does mold, throw it out!
    Downside of the method....with the hot jam and the wax on top you can't twist and turn the jar to get the contents evenly suspended in the jam without getting the parrafin mixed with the jelly.
    Linda C

  • lakeguy35
    14 years ago

    I remember the parrafin seal on jams at both of my Grandmothers houses while growing up. I've been HWB canning in a 16 or 20 quart stock pot for severval years now. I have 12 lid bands dedicated for lining the bottom of the pot. I Had to replace them this year as they were very rusty.

    Watch your hands, knife, and cutting board with those habaneros. I learned the hard way. I now wear gloves and use a plastic chopping mat that can go in the DW.

    Much success to you! Watch out though...this canning thing can become addictive.

    David

  • lpinkmountain
    14 years ago

    OK as long as we're talking cutting corners . . .
    When I first started out I did't put anything on the bottom of the pan. Just put the jars in the BWB. OK they rattle around and can develop hairline cracks or even break, theoretically. But has never happened to me and I still most often do it that way.

    For lifting jars, a good set of meat tongs will work. They can scratch the jars so the rubber coated ones work better. Hold on tight--if you drop a jar it can break but also more likely splash you with hot water and burn you! So be careful and it doesn't hurt to drain away some of the water somehow. DO NOT use salad tongs--ask me how I got those scars on my stomache! Jar lifters can be found in the houseware gadget section of most supermarkets nowdays.

    As for the pot, I hardly ever use my acual canner anymore, it is too big for most of the batches of stuff I do. Why use all that water boiling water that is more than you need. You just need a pot big enough to hold all your jars and tall enough to hold enough water to rise above the jar tops by 1 inch.

    I canned for a while without any canning equipment at all. Then I got hooked and bought all kinds of gear, including a food mill.

  • hawk307
    14 years ago

    David:
    My Grandmother's did the same, only at that time there were large washtubs around.

    I think they held about 2 dozen Jars. They covered the Whole Rangetop.

    That's when the Huckster's came around. They had Jersey Tomatoes very cheap.

    So they put up about 50 or 60 Large Jars of Tomatoes for the winter.
    Lou

  • gardengrl
    14 years ago

    Lou,

    Now that's what I'm talking about!!! A whole washtub of jars; I can only imagine how much time that would save!

    I have 12 jars worth of Habanero Gold macerating at home; waiting to be processed tonight. That jelly has a cult following.

    Plums are in season too....gonna make some Asian Plum Sauce.

  • auntnete
    14 years ago

    This is a hoot! I bet I have not been on this board in 3 months. I started making the Habanero Gold and had a question and what is the top topic? Habanero Gold! LOL My question is this, my DH picked up certo sure jell instead of the liquid, can I substitute? Thanks!

  • annie1992
    14 years ago

    auntnete, if those sure jell is powder, you shouldn't substitute. Well, you can if you want, but I have no idea whether or not it'll set up or turn into taffy or what.

    The liquid pectin and the powdered pectin are not interchangeable. If you want to live dangerously, go ahead. (grin) If you are one of those very safe cooks, then don't do it!

    Annie

  • auntnete
    14 years ago

    thank you Annie, I am not one to live dangerously! I will get him to go pick up liquid! Thanks again!

  • shaun
    14 years ago

    I just have to chime in here with a warning not to use the tongs upside down which I did. I did it with the salsa and with the Habanero Gold Jelly. I kept thinking, what's wrong with me? Why won't these tongs work? hahah! My husband had to tell me I was using them upside down. D'OH!

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    Well, last canning season Bon Appetit had a canning article which pictured the jar lifter upside down, so you're in good company.

    It takes a while to figure these things out sometimes.

    Carol

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago

    I bought an asparagus pot at a garage sale. It is big enough for one quart jar, and has a wire basket that fits inside. Sometimes you've got enough for a wash tub and sometimes you only have one or two jars. LOL!

    I don't BWB my jam and jelly. Tried it, didn't like the results. I sterilize my jars, pour the boiling jam or jelly into the jars, slap on a hot canning flat, screw on the ring nice and tight, and then carefully tip the jar, (always AWAY from me, not TOWARDS me), so that the hot liquid touches the edge of the flat, turning slowly until the liquid has touched the flat all the way around. Then I let it cool. They seal quickly with a resounding snap. I've never had a bad jar of jelly.

    I used paraffin many, many years ago, but only if I wanted to use a container that wouldn't accommodate a regular canning lid. A couple of tips for this: put your paraffin in a can that you washed after you prepared dinner -- from a vegetable, for instance. Set the can into a saucepan that contains maybe two or three inches of water. Bring the water to a boil and then turn down the heat. This keeps your paraffin melted safely while you work. Paraffin is VERY, VERY volatile when it is over a flame and I would never heat it over direct flame. I've seen others who had very bad burns by the paraffin getting to hot and "popping" out onto their skin. If you use a can that one of those plastic lids they sell to cover a can of dog or cat food will fit on, you can store the can away after it has cooled and use it for future jam making. The other tip is, have handy some short lengths of heavy cotton string. Imbed the string into the center of the paraffin as you pour it on top of your jam. When you're ready to remove the paraffin, you've got the string to yank on.

  • foodonastump
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I think I'm finally doing the habaneros today. So my next rookie questions - I assume I sterilize the lids and rings together with the jars? All for the 20 minutes that Linda C mentioned above? How tight on the lids?

  • Cloud Swift
    14 years ago

    The Ball website has step by step canning instructions. That says to put the lids in a separate pot and bring it to a simmer over medium heat but not to boil. They say boiling the lids may lead to seal failure.(But I only just read that because I wasn't sure I was doing it right and I have boiled lids in the past without the seal failing.)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ball canning instructions

  • foodonastump
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Excellent, thanks! To the market I go. Hopefully they have habaneros. And canning jars.

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    Cloud is right......just boil the rings....but frankly that's not necessary as they never come in touch with the inside of the jars.....but remember to wipe the rim of the jar with a wet cloth so the lid can seat.
    If you have never cooked habaneros....remember not to sniff the steam from the pot!
    Linda C

  • foodonastump
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice making the Habanero Gold. It is delicious, and I can't think of enough excuses to eat it. Good thing I made a quadruple batch!

    One question about the texture - it seems kind of "gelatiney". Is that normal or should I have used less than four packages of Certo in a quadrupled batch?

    I had a few brushes with the boiling hot water. At one point I said to my wife, "I guess this is why people buy canning equipment." To which she replied, "I guess this is why people buy jelly for a dollar fifty at the store."

    I thought that was classic. I don't expect she'll ever understand...

    By the way, any preference between yellow and orange habaneros? They were in the same bin at the store so took half of each. I didn't taste any difference between the two.

    Or Turkish vs French dried apricots? I figured turkey is generally less fat than French food so I chose that. (Actually, they just looked a little better somehow.)

  • nosnowtn
    14 years ago

    FOAS, did you quadruple the recipe all in one pot? If so, that is not a recommended practice, not from a safety standpoint but rather a gel/set one. Pectin can be highly unpredictable anyway, so when I make this(it's macerating in the kitchen now) I always use the recipe Carol adjusted to a double batch and use two pans.

    The color of the habs should only affect appearance, the ones I grow I pick red. Ditto the apricots. I once used organic non-sulfered Turkish ones as opposed to sulfered Mediterranean ones and the jelly was brown. Still tasted fine though, just unappetizing looking.

    Have fun playing with the colors for different stained glass effects, but be careful who you share this with. I have addicts up and down the east coast and usually put up
    over 100 jars a year LOL!

    Joan

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    There is a difference in flavor between Turkish and California apricots, though I doubt it makes much difference in this particular recipe. When making a winter conserve with dried apricots and toasted almonds I chose the Turkish because they were sweet and mild while the California ones I had were "mouth-puckering" tart.

    As far as the habs go, use what you like. My big-batch recipe is slightly more cloudy than the original, partly because I increased the apricots. So the color of the habs in that jelly isn't as discernable anyway. It's all aesthetics. As long as the jelly tastes and looks good to you it doesn't matter what color the habs are.

    People do increase batch sizes, even quadrupling as you did, but I wouldn't recommend it. You have to cook longer to get to the appropriate point at which you add the pectin. This changes the texture and also reduces the freshness of flavor. (Especially if the sugar starts to caramelize.)

    Carol

  • foodonastump
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Well I guess that explains it. Who knew. At least it's safe. Yes, it has a slightly funny texture, but it tastes great.

    My reason for quadrupling: The smallest jars I could find were pints. As it was, four times the recipe only filled six. It seemed kind of silly to make a single recipe, go through all that effort and have only one true "canned" jar, and another half a jar in the fridge.

    Of all the canning pictures I've seen on this forum, I've never seen 1.5 jars. More like 20. I guess it's time to look for smaller jars. Online? I searched high and low locally before I finally ended up with the pints at Michael's.

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    Gads, that's a lot of HGJ in one jar!

    Here a lot of people can, so I can find on the store shelves pints, half-pints, 12 oz. jelly jars and even little 1/4 pints, which are handy for tiny stocking-stuffer size gifting.

    The link will show you Ball's jelly jar line in those smaller sizes. You can purchase jars online but the cost is usually prohibitive due to the shipping fees. Glass is so heavy and requires special packaging.

    If you have an Ace Hardware near you and they don't carry the jars you need, you can order from Ace Hardware online and have jars shipped to your local store free of charge. The same is true of Walmart.

    Carol

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ball Jelly Jars

  • Terri_PacNW
    14 years ago

    Food, do you have a hardware store? Ace or TrueValue? They should have a small supply...and here even the groceries have a small stash all year long..all beit very expensive! LOL but I guess if you factor in shipping..

    When I made the Hab Gold it was a very thick gelatin like set. Oh and after a few months it started to crystalize too around the "head space". But it was still delicious and everyone that tried it LOVED it and asked for the recipe.

    oh and I appreciate the tip on the organic non sulfured apricots...I have those in the pantry and they are MUCH darker than the packaged ones I've bought before. I'll remember to pick up some new apricots when I go to make some more.

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    If the jelly crystalizes, it may be due to undissolved sugar crystals remaining when the mixture is brought to the boil. It's really important to make sure the sugar is fully dissolved before boiling.

    Another possibility is if the jelly was cooked too long or too slowly (another reason for avoiding over-large batches) too much of the water evaporates out and the sugar crystallizes. This is the same thing that can happen with an opened jar that's sat in the fridge too long. The jam dries out at the top (even with a lid on) and you get sugar crystals there.

    Carol

  • Terri_PacNW
    14 years ago

    You know Carol, it may have been the opened jar in the fridge that did that....Not the unopened jars...I don't recall..I gave most of it away, and only kept one jar for the occasional cracker/cheese snack..This year I'm going to do some in 4oz jars.

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    Yup. That would explain it. It's not all that unusual with a jar that's been refrigerated for a while. As the jelly's consumed, it leaves an even larger airspace, which increases the odds of evaporation with the little that remains.

    Carol

  • Cloud Swift
    14 years ago

    I don't think the difference between California and Mediterranean apricots would make much difference in the finished product but the Mediterranean ones might make the preparation easier especially if making multiple batches. The California style ones are dried to a very dry point and usually are also more tart as someone else pointed out. Because they are very dry, they are very chewy which is what I prefer when eating them out of hand, but the softer Mediterranean ones are easier to cut. Because the Mediterranean ones are more hydrated, 1/3 cup of them might have less apricot than 1/3 cup of the California.

    While we are on the subject of jar sizes, is it okay to stack the half pint jars in the BWB?

  • lpinkmountain
    14 years ago

    I hoard a supply of the smaller jars because they are often hard to find. Single me just can't eat up things in pint jars, no way.

    I wouldn't recommend stacking the jars. That's why I have a smaller pot I use for the BWB with the smaller jars. Not to say I have NEVER stacked jars, but it isn't recommended and it isn't a very good idea. I like to live on the wild side, what can I say. The risk is the jars won't seal or they will come unsealed, or they will get broken, and you risk your jelly being ruined, which has happened to me.

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    Stacking jars in the canner to process is fine. (It's stacking on the shelves after they've cooled that isn't recommended.)

    It helps if you can find a second cake rack or other rack to place the jars on so as to avoid tipping.

    My inclination with preserves, like lpinkmountain, is not to stack the jars, but that's principally because I prefer to work with smaller batches. However, I have done it often in the pressure canner and it's not a problem.

    Carol

    Here is a link that might be useful: Can Two Layers Be Processed At One Time?

  • Cloud Swift
    14 years ago

    The reason that I'm asking about stacking is that I'd like to use half pint jars for gift giving but when a double batch makes 4 or 5 pints, I can't get that in my BWB in one layer all at the same time.

    I use the wide mouth half pints so two staked are the same size as a pint and they aren't at all tippy. I might be able to put a cake rack in between the layers if needed for water circulation. If using tall narrow jam jars, I can see how they would be tippy.

    Is there a way to do them in one layer without having a second BWB pot? I wouldn't mind doing the BWB in two batches, but I don't see how the logistics for that would work. I thought that it was important to ladle the hot preserves, jam whatever into hot jars and then put them into the BWB right away to avoid temperature shock to the jars and so that the BWB gets quickly back to a boil. If I did something like fill all the jars and put the first set in the BWB for 10 minutes, take the first set out and put the second set in, would the second set have cooled to much for good processing?

  • readinglady
    14 years ago

    Well, it's not a high-risk product, so there aren't any safety issues.

    You'd be gambling. Depending upon how much it cooled, there could be thermal shock. You could remove the first load in the BWB then lower the temperature of the water by adding some additional cool water. That reduces the risk. With hot jam in them those jars are going to stay pretty warm anyway. You would have the additional time needed to bring the water up to temperature.

    But based on what you're saying about the jars you're using, I'd just stack them. With jam there's really no problem. Small jars. High acid. High sugar. And I doubt very much you'd see seal failures.

    Carol

  • lpinkmountain
    14 years ago

    OK I've done it with a rack in between no problem. I was thinking stacking them without a rack in between. I was thinking that the water would just start boiling away briskly and then one of the jars would fall off . . . But if you situated them just right they should be fine. There has to be some space above the first jar though doesn't there? Hence the rack? I dunno, I've stacked jars a couple of times and it's been a little rocky but no problems. What I stacked was stubby half pint jars of salsa, from a double batch. And sometimes an extra small jam jar or two.