20 years of marriage and the future is bleak

17 years ago

After 20 years of marriage, I am fighting to stick it out --sometimes. Most of the time I want her gone and out of my life. I think of the hell of the past 20 years and think sometimes what to expect in the next 20. No money problems,no kid problems, nothing unusual. She is so frigid as a friend and sexually , I have no ill feelings--just no feelings at all. I meet nicer people at the local WalMart than her! Anyway it is hard to talk about things with one side of the story. I just know I did not think couples could cross the line so easily and no big deal from them. Any ideas, suggestions, things to try. In 20 years you go through alot, but not like 30,40 etc. or sometimes just another view. Thanks for any help.

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Comments (32)

stargazzer
17 years ago
I think you need to do some serious thinking about "would you be better off with or without her?" I know this not a popular opinion, but I am a firm believer in not wasting your life in an unhappy marriage. I knew after 5 years of marriage to my first husband I wanted to leave, but I stayed another 10 because of the kids and lack of support from my family. It would have been better to have gotten out when my children were small. I have never regretted what I did, just the timing.
colleenoz
17 years ago
If you have been so unhappy for so long, why are you fighting to keep it together? If your reasons for staying are compelling, have you tried/considered counselling? Is your wife similarly unhappy- have you ever discussed this with her?
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susanfnp, were you financially supported by your parents when and during the time you were in school and living together? Were they OK with that? During the year we lived together before graduating, we were supported in part by our parents and also by scholarships, student loans, and 15-20 hour/week jobs. We did not ask our parents' blessing before we lived together and it frankly didn't occur to us to do that -- not because we didn't love and respect them but because they had always trusted, even encouraged, us to make our own decisions. Their support (financial and otherwise) was not offered or withheld in proportion to the amount of control they were willing to give us over our own lives. If we made bad decisions, we knew there would be consequences, but those consequences would not include losing our parents' love and support. And the fact is, I think we made pretty responsible decisions and our parents respected us for that. Our house (which we shared with several other students until we graduated) was not a den of iniquity. We were good students. We paid the rent on time. We got good professional jobs right out of school and were able to buy a house (without our parents' help) when we were 23. Most importantly, our parents saw that we each had someone we cherished and who cherished us, who made us light up, who inspired us to want to be kind, generous, and engaged in the world around us. What's not to be OK with about that? Our oldest child is now 19 and a freshman in college. We will pay 100% of his education expenses and give him a room/board allowance until he graduates; the only condition is that he remain in school (because if he is not in school he will be able to work and support himself, right?). He is free to choose where he lives, and with whom. We expect that he may make choices that are different from what we would choose for him (and has in fact done a little of that already), but he knows he is responsible for the consequences of his decisions, and making mistakes and learning from them is part of how one becomes an adult. We don't have any problem giving him advice or saying "we think that's a mistake", even when he doesn't ask us for our opinion , but I cannot imagine anything he could do that would make us withdraw our love and support of him.
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Just thought I would pop back in. Doesn't god hate lazy people too who refuse to help themselves or take care of their family? We went to visit both our families this weekend...about an hour away. We were supposed to eat lunch with my family today. He had wanted to stay at his mom's and I wanted to stay at my mom's (more comfy bed), so he said lets split up. We ate dinner with his mom Sat night, she offered to pay and he grabbed the check and said no we will pay. Then proceeds to hand it to me since he has no $$$. I don't know why but I paid. I should have said something. His mom knows we are having trouble - he told her we are declaring bankruptcy and I told her the business has failed. So I call him at 12 today to say I was on my way to pick him up. He says no I have to go home to work we need to leave now. I said that we already had plans and he could eat with us if he wanted or stay at his moms, and I would pick him up afterwards.. He chose to stay there and sulk. His mom pissed me off as she knew we had plans with my family and she says to me on the phone when I called to talk to him at 12...oh we are celebrating aunt so and so's birthday today at such and such place if you want to go there instead. Then we get home at 5pm and he goes to bed. He hasn't had any photoshoots in a month, so any work he might have is from over a month ago. Plus he never mentioned he needed to leave at 12 even when I spoke with him the night before. Whatever. y mom asked what was wrong, because clearly I was upset, even though I was trying to hold it all in. So against my more rational judgement I kinda told her what was going on. I really didn't know what she would say...she is pretty religous. She said, well I hope he gets it together and you don't have to get divorced, but you can't keep wasting your life and always having to push him. I was pretty suprised. I thought she might say, that its not that bad and it would be wrong to divorce. I told her I would feel like a failure for getting a divorce and she was very reassuring that isn't the case. (Note: She is divorced, but my dad beat her all the time and finally she left after 11 years - the church told her she shouldn't) I mentioned the only way he will probably find a new job is if I do his resume and send it out. She said she wouldn't do that...that he needs to do it himself and if not, then he has made his choice and I shouldn't feel bad to have him leave. Then my brother arrived at lunch and asked where my husband was since he figured he would be at lunch. I told him less. Brother is younger than me and has his own business and really likes my husband...considers him a brother. I just said he was in a bad mood, that the business wasn't going well. Brother said that he had talked to him at XMAS trying to help...suggesting sales calls, networking, inviting him to his business assoc. mtgs etc. I said he hasn't went on one sale call, sent out any direct mail, phone calls or trade shows ever in three years, doesn't call his customers back when they have complaints and has a bad rating with the better business bureau. He said, well he could turn it around, but it would require 80 hr work weeks, tons of sales calls, resolving issues etc. He said it doesn't sound like that will work. I was very calm just matter of fact with my family...not emotional, not saying I hate him etc. Just the busines isn't working and that I told him he needs to go back to work. Brother asked how much the business is making, if I didn't mind saying, which I didn't...I told him $615...he thought that was per week....I said, no that is per year. He agreed time to say goodbye to it. He did say his 1st three businesses didn't succeed, but that he doesn't have a "sugar mamma" so if he doesn't work he doesn't eat. Then went on to say its not fair to me to have live that way. Of course I asked each of them to keep this confidental. I really hadn't planned on saying anything to my family since I embarrassed about the entire thing and also because if we do reconcile I do not want them to hold a grudge, but I think the way I presented it, that will not be the case. Plus my family typically doesn't hold grudges. I didn't tell my brother I was thinking about a divorce though. Not really ready to tell everyone. Hopefully it wasn't a mistake to mention it to my mom. I delivered all the bankruptcy forms and support docs to our atty this week and we will file March 15. I found a new job that pays 10k more as my current employer eliminated by job in Dec and I have been doing data entry work for the past four weeks, so I start that in a week. It will involve some travel. Even with the increase we still qualify for the bankruptcy, thank god, because I can barely pay all the nessecary bills. Thank you all for listening to my vent...I really needed to get that out. I am willing to give it to the end of May. If he doesn't have a job by then, I am done. It makes me cry just typing that out.
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My honest opinion is that your wife is not in love with you anymore (if she ever was) and is only staying with you "because of the children". Let's look at the facts; she shows no interest in you whatsoever (physically, sexually) and doesn't even want to sleep with you or spend any time with you. She told you straight out that you were third in the list of her priorities. She is making excuses as to why she won't have sex with you because she doesn't want to admit to the real reason. I think she wants you to stay around as long as the kids are still at home. The biggest indicator of all is that she will not attend marital counseling with you!! She obviously knows you aren't happy and are trying to work on the marriage, yet she is only willing to placate you by going to individual counseling. Not that she doesn't need that too, but the problems are with the marriage, yet she straight up is refusing to do maybe the only thing that would save the marriage. No matter what the reason is for the problem, the fact that she is unwilling to try and fix it clearly demonstrates how important the relationship is to her. I think you are too young to be spending your life in a "relationship" with someone who basically wants nothing to do with you. Nobody should have to endure a marriage where they are having sex a couple of times a year (unless both partners are fine with that arrangement) or when one partner obviously has no interest in the other. I think that unless she agrees to actually go to Marriage Counseling, with YOU, and talk about what is going on here, then don't bother. Why should you try if she isn't going to. Go find someone who is madly in love with you and wants to cuddle with you, have sex with you, spend time with you, and will communicate openly about problems when they come in your relationship.
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nancylouise5me
17 years ago
That's what I was wondering. What is her answer to the frigidness when you try and discuss this with her? NancyLouise
corvette57
Original Author
17 years ago
Thank all of you for responding. In order I will try and explain.

Stargazzer,
I have done almost exactly as you thought to do. I was married before with 2 small children, my wife and I were very young and dumb.I bailed after 5 years and have since realized I was wrong to jump ship so quickly. I have since apologized to both of my sons now in their late 20's and to my ex. Maybe that is why I am being so slow in responding to this dilemma.

Coleenoz,
My wife seems to thrive on making me unhappy and is confortable with her life.I have went to counseling alone as she would not go with or without me. She thought it was a waste of her valuable time. We (I) discuss problems alot. She acts like the sound of my voice hurts her ears and leaves the room or ignores me totally. Counselors have a mixed bag of answers. I am not impressed with them as a lot.

NancyLouise,
I hope the above gives you some sort of answer. My wife refuses to give me an answer. She will tell me I am a wonderful husband and have done no wrong, but I think this is sarcastic. She wants me to shut up!

Recently I asked her to leave and her grown son agreed to take her in. However she keeps coming home after work and acts like she never agreed to leave. Strange?

Any advice would be appreciated!!
stargazzer
17 years ago
I think you know what you should do. Sounds like she just wants you for the support.
scarlett2001
17 years ago
"Drive it or park it".
Or, how about a trial separation? Which is kind of practice parking.
colleenoz
17 years ago
Sorry, if my husband said the sound of my voice hurt his ears or walked out when I was telling him his behaviour was making me unhappy, he would be out the door.
Either make up your mind to be unhappy indefinitely or cut her loose. Clearly she doesn't feel the need to change, all that can change is you.
I'd change the locks, personally.
nancylouise5me
17 years ago
Corvette, I am of the mind of stargazzer. Live is to short to be unhappy the rest of your life. You have tried talking, you have tried counselors, I would be thinking of divorce now. Your wife doesn't want to put forth the effort to fix your marriage. It is time to move on. NancyLouise
straycat_wandering
17 years ago
I stayed 23 years...for my children. They were grown and out of college and I also had gotten my degree. The ending result was that my children resented me leaving. Even though they knew I was not happy and that even though they were in the opinion he was a good father ( at times...for two out of the three) they did agree he was not a good husband, they resented me initiating the divorce. Three years later they still refuse to be a part of my life or allow me to be a part of theirs. I lost a lot...It sounds like your children a in the same age group-or close. I would check out their feelings before making any decisions. Believe me, it's really tough when they slam the door to you and the grief this has caused me makes me now wish I would have stayed...I miss my children whom I love so very much and nothing can replace them.
nancylouise5me
17 years ago
Just goes to show you how different children can be in their way of thinking. When I was growing up I PRAYED that my mom would divorce my dad so we could live a "normal" life. I even brought it up to her once. Her response was "where would we go?" (back then there weren't the support or services they have now.)
As you said in your first post, no money or children problems to consider. You gave 20 years to a person that has made you unhappy. Why prolong the misery. I personally would be moving on and trying to find happiness else where. NancyLouise
corvette57
Original Author
17 years ago
To everyone,
Looks like eveyone is is of the same mind. I just don't have in me to be cruel or lie, but I have been doing lots of reading and and some soul searching.

I think I gave it good shot and did my part, so I think I will move on in a month or two. I want to make some prepartions and not just react to certain things. One thing I have forgot to ask and it very important.

I am 50 years old,in good health, but always wondered. Can I find real true, honest love out there? I don't need someone to take to the cleaners or play games with me. Just someone to love me and me to love them back. Please respond alot this question. Just a decent, honest person. It is very important!!!
finedreams
17 years ago
yes love is possible at any age, 50 is new 30 LOL. but sometimes it is OK to be alone for awhile, definitelly better than in a bad marriage!
dotz_gw
17 years ago
Corvette, YES YES YES , You can find true, sweet love at your age!!!!I did and no one was more shocked than me..Expected to be a spinster after a hellacious LONG marriage, but was blindsided to find a soulmate...God Bless the Broken Road....Get to youtube and see the video and listen to the words carefully, it will give you hope The best ...
corvette57
Original Author
17 years ago
Sorry for the bad writing, our weather is very bad, the electricity goes out several times a day--so. Very surprised and glad to hear your answers! You hit it right on the the nail. I need a SOULMATE! Everyone does or your life feels empty like mine.Thank you all so much. I think I know what I must do and sooner rather than later!
Thank you all!!
nancylouise5me
17 years ago
Glad to read you have made a final decision Corvette. You will be happier for it I'm sure. I wouldn't jump right in with dating and searching for your soul mate though. I think you should take a break from women for a little while. Have some time just with yourself and your friends. Collect your thoughts and figure out what went wrong so you don't make the same mistakes again with another woman. Take care and good luck, NancyLouise
stargazzer
17 years ago
I think every person needs to live alone, to get to know themselves and what they want. Ask yourself "what do I expect from a spouse and marriage? Sometimes as young people everyone just does what their family did, marry and have a family, after a few years they want to experience the things they missed out on by marrying to young. The same is often true after a divorce. When I think back I don't think I would have married or stayed married to anyone if I had been skilled enough to earn my own way.
corvette57
Original Author
17 years ago
Couldn't agree more. That is the way I feel right now. Some peace and quiet, find myself. Seems like I have been married and had kids all of my life. That may sound selfish to some, but I think in some cases it is the right medicine.Thank you for caring, that's more than I have had in many years.
scarlett2001
17 years ago
I have got more good advice here than in marriage counseling.
stargazzer
17 years ago
By the time my 45 years of marriage was over I was totally sick of it and the odd part of it is that I didn't realize how sick of it I was until being single for a couple of years. I would not mind having a male friend to travel with but as far being married or living together...never again.
johnny52
17 years ago
I've been married for over 30 years and there are times the future looks bleak. Then I a few days later and the sun seems to be shining yet again.

Over 3 decades we have grown in different directions with different interests and pleasures. But starting over at this point wouldn't be the solution. We've been working hard to overcome the barriers and find each other. It's a serious work in progress.

There isn't anyone I would have rather shared my life with than my wife. We do take care of each other and hope that the future isn't bleak as you put it.

But when you're wife looks in you the eye and says "You're not making me feel special enough. I know you want more sex but you haven't earned it yet". Yes, all this is part of promises made during counseling but hearing something so blunt just about makes the seams of our marriage burst with stress.

I thought I've been doing agood job of being interactive, engaging but not nearly enough for her. Maybe I don't talk enough to her but she's out taking classes, sleeping in front of TV because she's tired etc.

Last night we went out to a resturant of her choice that had a little live entertainment. I had worked all day but put a good smile on and we went out (She doesn't work Fridays). After 2 1/2 hours at the place I was rerady to head home and relax before coming back to home on Saturday morning. She thought I didn't try hard enough to have a good time so Date night just didn't occur. Seems I didn't earn that pleasure I suppose.

Now where do I go from here? This is just one of those bleak times. It'll get better ... hopefully!
nancylouise5me
17 years ago
Geeesh Johnny, you have to EARN the right to be with your wife? I always thought that was something you gave freely because of the love between a husband and wife. Not something that can be used against your spouse to get their way. That's tough. Only you can decide if a platonic/companion relationship is what you want to settle for from your marriage. At least that is what it looks like what it will end up as to me if there are no changes. Hopefully the counseling eventually will work. NancyLouise
johnny52
17 years ago
Our marriage is a work in progress. She has so much resentment against me it'll an uphill battle. lately, I've been trying to give her little things every other day to just show that I'm thinking about her & that's she's important to me.

However, If I slack off just once here or there and she quickly reminds me that I'm going back to old routine. It's all in one's perspective I guess. How hard doers this have to be?
nancylouise5me
17 years ago
If you don't mind me asking johnny, why does your wife hold so much resentment towards you? NancyLouise
straycat_wandering
17 years ago
Over 10 years ago I had to have a double mastectomy. When they originally went in there were not sure if it was cancer-turned out both breasts were completely full of pre-cancer. They removed all of the tissue (left my nipples-but scraped them). I had a friend who had also had to have this done and 2 year later she died from cancer of the ovaries.
When I met my husband (we've been married less than 2 years) I was having problems with them leaking-common after about 10 years, and knew they would have to be replaced. WE married and he picked the surgeon (works with surgeons so said he knew the best). I had the surgery and I feel they look and feel better. This was a year ago this month. The only comments he has EVER made are painful. Such as; well you know you have a dent in this side, they are not the same side, they should have more projection, he should have done this... I think he could have done better....never one kind loving word. I have
cried and cried and begged him for one kind word. Never. I have even explained to him that if he could look at me through the eyes of love maybe he would be able to say some thing nice. I know in the past relationships he had breasts are a biggie for him-bit I guess I didn't realize how big.
I now cannot find it within my soul to have a physical relationship with him. Because when he does touch me (not very often) it just reminds me of what he has said and how he reacts to me when he walks in and I have my bra off. I feel ugly and hurt. Today he just left mad-because he says he doesn't understand why I don't want to have a physical relationship-after I explained to him how I feel and said I only think about MY feelings. Am I being unfair. Should I work at displacing my pain -what to do? I feel like I am old and ugly and just an object to take care of a need when he has one. (which is maybe once a month and it didn't start out that way)...what to do or think? Any thought's...
straycat_wandering
17 years ago
I am sorry I got this in your post...I was trying to start a new one. Can anyone correct? Again, my apologies.
stray
dotz_gw
17 years ago
I m sure nobody minds the mistake , Stray, sorry for your troubles and started a new one for you.....
jdjim6765
17 years ago
Wow, I myself have been married for nearly 20 years and am ready to call it quits. I have children, almost grown. I do love my wife and believe I would die for her without question; however, there is no longer a spark, nothing. I believe we are still together for the kids, I know, I know, wrong answer. It could also be that we are a vise for each other. I am not sure. She is trying, I think. I don't know if I want to. Corvette57, I believe you have made the correct choice. I am unhappy and I know it. I lied to her throughout the last 8 years about finances, I really didn't believe she could handle the truth. She knows about my deception and holds it over my head. I believe I have stopped hiding our financials from her. Sorry, I felt some background was needed. Anyways, I am getting ready to have a talk with her. I really need some feedback on this one. I am going to take her out to eat, not someplace too busy. After we eat, I am going to tip the waitress and ask her for some extra time. I will take the keys out of my pocket and place them on the table, explaining to her that at any time, she may take the keys, get in the car and leave. I will then tell her how I am feeling, how I don't know if "we" will change and how I do not want to get old feeling hated or like a failure. I believe that if she hears me out, we have hope. If not, I'm gone.
stargazzer
17 years ago
I can't imagine discussing that in a public place. Personally I would just take the keys and go home.
michigan123_live_com
15 years ago
Our society treats marriage like a cheap kitchen appliance. When something goes wrong, it goes in the trash. Americans no longer have any respect or reverence for marriage, family, values or the promises associated with those things.
asolo
15 years ago
To hell with "reverence" when a spouse reveals themselves to be intolerable and dishonest!

And **** you if you think I should have stayed with the *****
.
mkroopy
15 years ago
"Americans no longer have any respect or reverence for marriage, family, values or the promises associated with those things"

Oh please.....people have always been as messed up as they are now, it's just that society did a better job of "hiding it" I think. It was common for men to cheat on their wives back in the 30s/40s/50s....it's just that more women probably just 'accepted' it because in those days what options did they have? Few women had careers and could even come close to supporting themselves....

Ah yes...family values....gimme a break. More parents beat the cr*p out of their kids with a belt too way back when....that's good family values? My parents (I'm in my 40's) both got whipped with a belt for stuff when they were kids....fortunately for me and my brother, they were sane enough to not pass that on...and I would but a bullet in my head before I ever whipped one of my kids with a belt. But I guess to some that means I have no sense of discipline....whatever.
vala55
15 years ago
Corvette, by now this is a very outdated thread. If you are still reading here, I would like to know what you decided and how you are doing. I hope it went well whatever your decision.

20 years of marriage and the future is bleak

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