I personally think the extra $ is well worth it. I love having the digital readout on the W4842, and also the W4842 has some extra cycles that I use all the time. I personally Love the Comforters cycle, Clean Machine Cycle and Beach Towels cycle. Beach towels cycle (no heat water, max spin) is the perfect pre-rinse for my Preschoolers clothes, before I wash them (usally in Very Warm Custom or Very Warm Wrinkle Free and usually with Persil and Downy).

I personally would not buy a W4802!

Thanks Larsi!

I think I've finally decided to go Miele :) I spoke with someone who has been selling appliances for a long time (friend of a friend). He finally gave me the quantifying numbers I was looking for (for what they're worth). He said if Miele is a "10", Bosch is probably a 7.5 or 8. He was at Miele in Germancy in September and said they were shown how the machines are made and how they run. He said they truly are built like tanks.

I guess I'll have to live with the backward set up. Although, being able to buy them at a discount makes them about the same cost as the Bosch Vision 800.

What cycle do you use for regular bath towels?

I figured it was worth it but wanted to hear what all you real life users thought were the valid reasons.

Is the idea of the beach towel cycle to just rinse and spin once?

The beach towel cycle is about 20 mins (vs the 10 minute quick rinse cycle) and is designed to remove sand before washing. Like Larsi, I use it to remove heavy soil but also as a long rinse if needed. I chose the 4842 b/c I wanted it to do the heavy lifting (pre-wash, deep rinses, remove surface soil, etc.) instead of me. :)

Someone might have the quantitative values, but it seems like a much longer rinse time with one maximum spin.

As a W4840 owner, I agree that the extra money for W4842 vs. W4802 is worth it.

Incidentally, my decision to buy the W4840 a couple of years ago wasn't motivated by build quality, or the Miele reputation which I knew nothing about. Rather it was because I learned that it was the best bet for getting an honest warm or hot wash.

One more comparison question ... what about a W4840 vs W4842?

The thing with this outlet is you get what comes available.

I'm waiting to see if Miele is offering any incentives in December for buying at retail. Maybe free extended warranty?

How many Miele 48xx owners have experienced leaking door seal problem? I have had a Miele 4840 for two years. Like many of you I paid premium price and replaced all my appliances with Miele. I had problem with mild leakage at the rubber door seal within 2 months which Miele instantly replaced. Now after less than two years the problem is much bigger. Water gushes out and floods the floor during rinse cycle. The sad part is I thought it was a minor probllem at first. Actually the water was seeping into the floo .Bcasue of the floor level difference the water was flowing to the corner of the house getting under the base board, soking the sheet rock.I realised the extent of the damage only after I started seeing bubbles at the base board caulking line. When I called Miele they gave me the standard out of warranty answer and wanted me to pay a $150 visit fee just to send someone to take a look. I checked the rubber seal for any crack and found none. Did a normal wash cycle and watched the entire cycle sitting in front of the machine. The leak starts at the Rinse cycle about 20 min before the end of the cycle. This time I had a towel and a huge layer of paper twel to soak the water up and that is when I realized how much water must have been leaking out in every washing that I have done before. Upon writing an email they have scheduled to send a local independent repair person to come and check it out. But I wanted to see how many others have had similar leakage issue. This is really basd for a company that claims superior quality and craftsmanship for their appliances. Compared to that my older Kenmore top load served so weell with not a single service issue for almost 18 years and even when I got rid of it the smple machine was in mintworking conditionBy the way the dryer that came with it had to replaced within one year because of a recall issue and when the service guy tried to upgrade the firmware to fix the problem the internal computer died. So much for quality and craftsmanship. Four of my neighbors that I had talked into to look at Miele when they staretd remodeling their homes have now decided to look at other brands after hearing my experience.

It is strange that the whole dryer had to be replaced because of a bad motherboard. Maybe that was just to try to give customer satisfaction.. like giving a customer a new car after the PCM failed, an incredible gesture. I can tell you though, that ANY computer can fail if the firmware flash fails. There are a number of reasons that can happen, from power interuption, a loose cable from the flashing computer to the computer being flashed, the tech sneezed and shook the connection loose, I can go on and on, but the fact that the firmware flash failed isnt necessarily a quality issue.

Im not sticking up for the manufacturer, just relating a simple fact that you shouldnt assume everything is just bad quality.

OK, the real quality issue was that the dryer could heat up and cause a fire. Miele released a new firware to fix this problem which they did . Apprently they knew the patch had a problem and rather than replacing the on board computer they decided to replace the machine. My assumption is they decided at some point their field techs are not qualified to do the job and it is much mroe cost effective to do the replacement. Also, I never had a problem with my dryer unit and it was part of a field upgrade they were doing to avoid any accidents and class action suits.My quality issue is with the pre-release testing that could not detect this issue. I also did not mention that my food warmer had three service calls in 2 months because of a vibrating noise and they had to finally replace the unit. I give high remarks for Miele customer support but not so sure about the quality especially for the premium price we all pay compared to other brands.

Just to add my experience. I have the W4840 washer and T9820 gas dryer, both purchased in December 2008. I always found that the dryer did not fully dry the clothes when I used the normal cycle and had to use the 45 minute warm cycle for about 10 minutes. In August 2009 the thermostat on the dryer failed and there was no heat. Since the dryer was under warranty the repair was done and the dryer worked better than before.
In January 2010 I was notified of a software upgrade for the dryer so I booked the appointment. At the same time the washer was leaking water from under the machine (not from the door) so I had the technician look at that during the same appointment.

He first did the software upgrade to the dryer. Then he fixed the washer. Apparently it was due to a hose in the machine that rubbing against another part which had created a hole. The hole was replaced and a little piece of buffer material was wedged in to keep the 'rubbing' from creating a hole again.

The next day the dryer stopped working but the washer was fine. I called Miele and they immediately said they would give me a new dryer. Very suspicious.

Nearly a year later all is fine. Would I buy another Miele product or recommend them to someone? Never.

When a manufacturer offers to REPLACE your unit versus simply repairing it, you think that's suspicious? Most people, myself included, would see that as excellent customer service. Try asking Whirlpool or Maytag to do the same thing, then wait for the laughter on the other end of the phone.

Help me understand this... Miele stepped up and replaced your dryer with a brand new one, and because of this you would never recommend a Miele product? Really?

I'm 100% with sshrivastava! Miele gave you a new dryer!!! As stated by stava...try that with Whirlpool!! LOL

A few years back, I bought a very, very bad BMW. I mean, from like week one.... Months & Months, service appt after service appt. When I couldn't take it anymore, I really complained to BMW. They not only gave me my money back, but they paid me for the time I drove the car!! Great customer service. I am now on my like 8th BMW.

I do not see how you can be mad, or not recommend Miele. I am a lifetime BMW and Miele owner. Miele also replaced a washer, that I felt had too many needed service visits, for a brand new unit. Great customer service should be rewarded by recommending the brand & buying more from the brand.

As I said before, I bought 6 Miele appliances. Two had to replaced because they could not fix them. When washing machine which needed 4 service calls in two years with two leaks in the first year for which they ended up changing the rubber seal broke down again with a big leak this year outside the warranty. When I called them I got the same laughter on the other end and they wanted me to spend a $150 for someone to come and do a diagnostics. Only after I wrote a long email to them did they send someone to take a look. My food warmer rattling noise they could not fix and they replaced. My dryer blew flat out and wouldn’t even turn on and they replaced that. I still feel their customer service better than many . But their quality is far inferior for the price you pay. So for that I doubt if I can recommend it. Having said that I am thinking of buying their Cappuccino machine

dude,

I get it you paid a premium price for a premium product and for the extra expense you were rewarded with problems you might not have had with less expensive machines. For many of us our expectations increase with the amount we spend. What I would accept from Whirlpool versus Miele is commensurate with their respective costs. I wouldn't recommend them either if I had your experience, for what you pay for a Miele you don't want good service you want not to need the service in the first place, end of story.

I don't think any manufacturer can guarantee you perfection. Can you say “lemon”??

What they should provide for top dollar is exceptional performance (above other brands) and outstanding service.

I spoke to someone recently who went to Miele in Germany is September and said nothing is built like them. The components that go into them are solid. They are built like tanks.

I’d like to know how many happy customers there are for every one who has an issue.

I haveto agree here about the problems with the miele machine, pay a premium price and you should get top quality, no ands, if and buts about it! Customer service is there to Smooge over the bad mistakes and mishaps and that all. We make fuel injectors for Ford, Chysler, VW, BMW, Mercedes, hyundia, and GM. Guess what? It s all made out of the small lowest priced, and quality steel (for internal parts) that we can get our hands on and we charge accordingly to the customer who buys them. So if you are around in a mercedes, or bmw, feel proud that your injectors are the same ingredients as everyone elses. You just paid a PREMIUM price for the same thing as Hyundia owners and other paid a serously lower price for , you just paid more the a name, and thats it. Ther is NO difference in how we run the product, or quality specifications. We were told recently in a plant wide meeting, its not about the employee's and so forth, its about the STOCK HOLDERS. Lets face it, they are the ones who run manufacturing these days. If Miele is publicly traded, then they will be no different in this way of thinking, if you think otherwise, your only kidding yourself and your hard earned money

@gates1...

In regards to stock holders running things, that I have to basically agree with you. It is very sad how big businnes runs (and ruins) a lot of things!

Saying Miele, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, GM...are all essentially the same quality is total NONSENSE! Have you seen the internal parts of a Miele machine??? Have you seen the one of Miele's plants in Germany? Where almost every other manufacturer uses cheap, spidery plastic, Miele uses metal. Miele uses double glass doors, the highest quality plastics one can get. Miele also is one of, if not the only, one that engineers and manufacturers their own electrnoics. I've seen the inside of a Frigidaire and Samsung washing machine and trust me...MIELE is leaps and bounds better!

Last time I checked, BMW and Mercedes used BOSCH fuel injectors (Made in Germany). I cannot believe Ford, GM, Hyundai, Chrysler....would use German made fuel injectors! Since I know BMW and Mercedes very well (have had over 20 new MBZs and 8 new BMWs [and I did print & advertising/PR work for BMW of No. America]), I can tell you their quality and parts used are SO above and beyond most other manufacturers, it would make your head spin. I do think Audi though, probably even has higher quality control standards and uses the best of the best materials!

In terms of build quality, durability and sheer design...go and close the door to a Mercedes or BMW & then go do the same in a GM or Chrysler. The German car feels and sounds like a tank, with their trademark "thunk" sound. Plastics, leathers, real woods, aluminium and steel used is top notch.

I think Hyundai has come leaps and bounds in terms of quality, craftsmanship and materials used. If they continue, they will be competition to the Germans, just like Lexus did. But...that will take a while.

Even though Miele is not perfect (and I've had washer issues, although my current W4842 is awesome)...I will keep my German Engineered and German made items (or maybe Czech made LOL)

Miele is the world’s largest family-owned and operated appliance company. They do not have shareholders to answer to.

Miele is a German manufacturer of high quality domestic appliances and machines for commercial applications. The company was founded more than 108 years ago in 1899 by Carl Miele and Reinhard Zinkann and has always been a family-owned, family-run company.

Miele aims to manufacture the highest-quality domestic appliances and commercial equipment in the world and to be seen by markets worldwide as providing an absolutely top-class household product.

In the words of our founding fathers, Carl Miele and Reinhard Zinkann, "Success is only possible in the long term if one is totally and utterly convinced of the quality of one's products." Therefore, continuous innovation is the foundation of our business success.

OT - I love my new Hyundai Veracruz!

Producing premium quality products at a premium price is a high stakes game - customer expectations are higher. Given the price point I would hope that Miele produces a product that has far less defects than their competitors (I would be stunned if this was not the case) but the reality (and you can be sure Miele knows it) is when consumers buy Miele but do not experience that quality many won't recommend the brand. I wouldn't.

Philosophically I like the Korean's approach which is to try to deliver high quality at an affordable price. To me this is much more appealing than what Miele does (ie manufacturing a premium product at a premium price). I also think the context of South Korean manufacturing and its short history is an interesting story (we all have our reasons for buying one product over another). In terms of major appliances they may still need some refinement but their achievements are still impressive.

All the same when looking for a new vacuum I felt like the bottom of the Miele line was my best bet (it still costs more than what I would like to pay for a vacuum of all things but I have had it with cheapies). I'm looking forward to using it but I am quite sure it won't turn my house into a Miele household. My standards simply don't demand Miele (thank goodness because I certainly can't afford them).

First Miele Gallery for Ottawa is going in just up the street which is a great boost to the quality of the retailers in our once struggling retail area. I hope it continues the trend.

I know it's not a marketing forum, but I think caryscott's point of view is so relevant to the OP's request. It really is a tightrope. Miele's bullseye is not someone who is deciding btwn a Hotpoint or a 4842. Those who buy Miele with little regard for price have (rightly) high expectations but someone who overextends to do so may have even higher.

larsi, ad I said, I hope that meile is of a higher standard. but. i can tell you, that I work in Va and we make injectors for BMW and Mercedes, In Newport News Va. i may not be a college graduated but I can read a placque when it says MERCEDES! BMV! And so forth. We are a German own company but manufacture he in the USA? my moms side of the family is full German, and I asked my uncle about whats up with Mercedes and BMW quality in cent hears. he said it went to he'll, and wouldn't buy one, they are trying to dig themselves out of their quality issues.

so yes we do manufacture all those injectors and. I can tell you that there is not special stock steel that we machine for any of these manufactures, it call comes from the same horse so to speak and shipped off. yes european cars doors sound great when they close, I agree, that does not make it a reliable car. Im not saying that BMW and Mercedes are bad cars, they just have had there quality issues like everyone else. go on edmunds.com, owners complain a lot about them

Since my wife and I are early adopters of the W 48XX and T 98XX Miele series I believe we can safely make an assessment based upon the MIele tech visits we’ve had, and and the many hours spent going through the units on my own out of curiosity. As a little prelude we took over six months to purchase these units, and I examined the competition to the extent of trying to accomplish a comprehensive comparison of the controls, back, sides, front, top, and interiors. Obviously, I did not take the units apart in the showrooms, but I did review several blogs where some offered photo essays of the internal workings, and service techs posted their findings. The brand I did not and have not reviewed to date is Speed Queen. However, to this date I still review the competition out of habit.

The Miele techs have been exceptional, and they were asked a myriad of questions that none of the various techs refused to answer, or did not have an answer to my queries. Our units are the W 4840, and the T 9820; many an aspect of both were upgraded by Miele, as was the firmware of each unit. We’ve now owned them for three years.

The competition simply is not up to Miele’s vocabulary of production means, methods, and materials, period.* The comprehensive nature of these units at consumer level is something that used to be seen in America in the fifties, and long since lost in today’s America. This truly shows when you remove the front, and top panels of the units and start learning how Miele does things. Yes, there are aspects that could have been done better, but remember these are consumer level units, and on this leve--they excel. The flip-side to Miele’s vocabulary is that you must have the service personnel who understand and appreciate this vocabulary to properly service these products.

As early adopters there is a prerequisite consumer resignation that issues might arise…and they did. The list includes:

Washer: Sagging door hinge; motor noise; motor shroud noise; latch replacement to newer latch design; sagging door returned, but remedied by me; discovered the door seal panel gasket spring and wire were gouging into the seal (modified by me); suspension struts were abrading inside their metal tube housing (white grease applied by me); on highest-spin level the top was making noise (applied felt dots, by me); multiple firmware updates.

Dryer: Did not dry clothes properly to begin with; drum seal replaced with revised part; filter screen replaced with revised part; sagging door (remedy by me, but a slight sag still occurred, and I will be watching this over time); replaced fan cage with revised part; multiple firmware updates.

The issue of the sagging door hinges is related to the alloy composition. Most likely Miele has changed this, and the hinge assembly design on the newer model series. We are empty nesters so no one touches these units other than me as I do the laundry that is not sent to the dry cleaners so the doors have never been leaned upon, or anything laid over them.

The consensus: We are very happy with both units, at this stage. The dryer is a gas model, but dries well as it has been tailored to our liking. The washer washes clothes better than any washer we’ve ever owned. Together, they have increased the life of the clothes we own that are processed through them. Miele will automatically be on our short list for our current replacement when the time comes, but as we did before, we will look at the competition and then make our final decision.

What can Miele do? They can start by ceasing their insipid and insulting patent line of, “The consumer is not using the units correctly.” This is not uniquely Miele as I own a prosumer Kranzle pressure washer and ran into the same line (German corporations must all think alike). If Miele is to stay in the North American consumer level market then they really need to test new models with actual consumers, and not Miele US based employees, and their relations. Miele needs to listen to its consumers as there are Miele owners who are both competent and savvy with the ability to provide highly-detailed feedback. Miele needs to increase the warranty term of a new series to help buffer early adopters. Miele’s Customer Service (not their Service Techs) were nothing less than arrogant and horrid when we first interfaced with them, but they have gotten much better over time.

Miele is a niche market product, and Miele most likely wishes to keep it this way. They currently do not have the Service Techs to grow to anything larger, and their customer base it of a certain socioeconomic strata in North America.

* Please see my note about Speed Queen in the first paragraph.

fahrenheit_451, is this supposed to make me feel "secure" in my decision to buy a Miele?? :)

No … I get what you’re saying. It was a good read.

I’ve been on the fence for some time (mostly between Miele and Bosch Vision 800).

I don’t think anything is perfect (even at top dollar) but I sure hope Miele proves to be something special for the price. It’s not “out of my price range” but I would be unhappy if I’m not thoroughly impressed by it. I mean, if it doesn’t shine above the others, what’s the point in paying so much?

Although, there are plenty of other brands getting just as expensive. I was out looking a few weeks ago and I was surprised at the price tag on some of the newer Samsung’s, LG’s and Kenmore’s. Some were more than the Bosch. Not quite Miele pricing yet but getting up there.

I understand every brand will have some failures but I sure hope it’s not my units.

I would have to agree that at the top end of the price range, there is a certain level of expectation. I’m not expecting perfection - just close to it ;)

I mean, it's not like a designer handbag - there has to be some substance to it (more than the name).

As for the car analogy … it made me realize … I’m willing to spend top dollar for excellent performance in my washing machine because it’s important to me. If someone would come out with a “Hyundai” of washing machines, I’d probably take a close look at it. It’s not I couldn’t afford a more expensive car, it just wasn’t important to me to drive a certain make. The Hyundai was everything we were looking for and it’s a great vehicle (so far) at a price lower than the competition. Point being … we will spend the most we can afford on the things that matter to us (and we’re all different in that regard).

@gates1

The parts made in the USA, thatlabeled for BMW and Mercedes are for sure just for USA made Mercedes and BMWs. Mercedes builds the ML, GL and R Class models in Alabama and BMW builds the X3, X5 and X6 models in S.Carolina. There is a clause for both companies, that a certain percentage of parts and engine components be manufactured in the USA, to be considered USA made models (and something to do with taxes and tax credits...I do not know the specifics).

BMW and Mercedes quality problems BOTHstarted when the companies began making USA made models. The ML and GL Mercedes models have been nicknamed by Mercedes Service Techs as "Alabama Mercedes" and the last generation of BMW X5s have been dismal. I've had 4 new BMW X5s and 3 new Mercedes MLs...and they have ALL been so bad, compared to the German made models. Starting in 1998, with the first generation of the Mercedes ML (Alabama made) was the beginning of the quality issues. Mercedes has done a huge effort in returning to their glory!

So, I am fairly sure the parts you see being made in the USA, are not for GERMAN models. Sadly, but very true, Mercedes and BMW quality issues, are due to American work quality and American made parts. It's not an attack on the USA or putting the USA down...there are A LOT of countries in the world, that do not make things well. Such is just life, skill, ethics and pride of work!!

I'll throw in my two cents' worth here.

I purchased a Miele W4842 over two months ago and so far I have been VERY pleased with it. I paid about $2300 with tax, license, power steering, air conditioning, etc. for it. It does appear that the Water+ option (set via Program Mode) may not work on some or all of the MasterCare cycle selections but it still manages to rinse thoroughly... indeed, the specialty cycles I have used all seemed to work quite efficiently for me.

The two major items I tweaked via Program Mode are setting the extra rinse/Water+ option ON and I also lowered the max extract speed to 1200 RPM to help it enjoy a longer life (I made a YouTube video on entering the Program Mode FWIW)-

The rather LONG wash cycles really don't bother me at all because my articles come out CLEAN with this machine!

I do wish it had a "Soak" option, though... but so far I haven't needed it. My heavily-soiled clothes just get some rubbing with Fels Naphtha soap and the added pre-wash.

In sum, I think the W4842 is well worth the money- arguably the very best consumer-grade washer out there IMO.

crashbox, thanks for your two cents ... sounds good.

Larsi, I cannot at this time tell you if our injectors go the the German made models or not. I am gonna gess they are USA models, since it would not make since to ship them overseas due to expense. I will MOST definitley agree with you about the quality of American made quality of items too. We, as machine operators are giving the bare minimum to work with. Im talking about low quality steel from vendors that usually wreck havoc on our machine, shave tool inserts that do not last a 12 hour shift, drills that couldnt make a clean hole in a piece of paper. When we tell management about it, it like talking to a wall. Most of our screw machine are over 30 years old, past their life expectancey and you cannot even get replacement parts for them. The maintence team honestly has to go on Ebay to to find parts. NO joke! The plant manager tells us that there is no funding for repairs and corporate will not allow us to do this that and so forth. We have worked mandatory over time since July, in most cases anywhere from 5-9 12 hour shifts in a row before you get a day off. That doesnt help moral, and people are over worked and quality suffers. When I worked on the test lines years ago, I ran over 10,000 injecters one night, about 50% of them failed and were thrown out. When I questioned why are we continuing to manufacture and test these, since the ball seats in them were bad and we are suppose to stop production. The answer I got is that it is cheaper to throw out the bad ones then it is to be late on a ford delievery. It is not unusual for us to have a 747 at the airport waiting for us to load them up with the parts. This was a new injector that ford designed for the 5.4 engines for the trucks. We eventually lost that contract, now bosh has it and struggles with it too from what we heard. Ford of USA hates us, but ford of Europe loves us, go figure that one out. I know this is way off subject here guys, but it is a lesson in quality control and how things are done in a manufacturing plant. Bottom line is, management and corporate and stock holders have the final say so in how something is made, not the employees. BTW, Im so glad mercedes responded fast to the design in the 90's where the front end got real ugly with those round headlights..OMG!! dont know who's idea that was, but it did not work at all! They look smokin hot these days and if I can ever get my hands on a 1985 300sd Im buying it, that thing is a beast for reliability

gates1,

WOW...I am really saddened at the state of American quality. Since you have a first hand experience, it is worse than I thought. I refuse to buy American cars, but I always try my best to buy everything else American (if possible). I recently upgraded the range in our kitchen (every other appliance is Miele, but they do not make a full size range yet). I bought a new Thermador 6 burner gas range with huge 36" oven. The quality is amazing, and built in Manhattan Beach, California. Funny....I found out a German company now owns and runs Thermador (whose slogan is "An American Icon"). LOL So, now I am thinking the amazing build quality and performance is due to the Germans!

You are SO right, Early 1980's to mid 1990's Mercedes are THE BEST. I had 2 older Diesel Benzes, a 1983 300TD and a 1993 300D. 200,000 miles on the original engine and tranny and it felt better than a brand new American car. If you find a 300SD (they were made up until 1991)...they are a GREAT car.

I prefer to reward the manufacturer with higher quality products whenever possible. I work hard for my money and I'll spend it on the company I think deserves it. I hate the typical American "throw it away" cheap-at-all-costs Walmart mentality. It costs a tremendous amount of resources to produce a washing machine, so shouldn't it be built to last a long time and therefore minimize the impact to the environment?

So while my Miele may have cost me more than a Maytag, LG or Whirlpool, I'm convinced it will outlast any of those products. Think of the environmental savings. How many people are throwing away their machines after only a few years because they are built with planned obsolescence in mind? Hollow aluminum spider assemblies which corrode and break are the reason many machines faile after only a few years. Mieles are built to last 20 years.

Why wouldn't I spend a few hundred bucks extra on something that will last me 20 years versus five to seven? It feels like the right thing to do, at least for me.

Larsi, I also have worked for a American company that make turbine engine for airplanes and power plants. the quality control is no different there either, one of the main reasons I do not like to fly anymore. the Mercedes with the w126 engine was the best from what I have read

oh uyea BTW, I work for a German company here in the US, they bought us in Jan 08 from another german company that used to own us, so go figure on German quality standards, or do they not know or care whats going on in their US companies

Is it the special air over in Germany we don't get anywhere else or are the people just magical?

If a company designs and manufactures a good product and they are any good at all they should be able to that anywhere or they are not as good as they think. Regardless of where they are built a Mercedes is a Mercedes and if the ones built in the US are not as good as the ones built in Germany then Mercedes simply isn't all that, qualifying their quality by the geographic local the product is manufactured in isn't much of a recommendation. The kind of quality problems BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagon and Audi had or are experiencing are all about mistakes in engineering, proper testing and quality control. I for one don't believe that German citizenship imbues one with magical qualities and all the other aspects of quality manufacturing are teachable and transferable to anywhere in the world if your company has the desire and competence to do so.

@Caryscott...

Yes, the air is magical over my Deutschland! When we sneeze, pixie dust floats out of our noses, up in the air & then gently floats down into our manufacturing plants creating the best products in the world!! LOL

A lot has to do with employee moral & benefits. German workers are some of the highest paid in the world, and they get 4-6 weeks of PAID vacation EVERY year. So, USA workers just do not feel as valued or have as much to work for/goals!

OMG LARSI!! that was spoken like a true smart***!!! LOL!!! Had I not knon better, ID swear my mother just said that, who is Full German. But your right, moral is everything in in any work place and has an effect on the end product going out the door. We just found out that they changed our shut down between the holidays, now everyone is hot as fire since they had holiday plans and airline reservations, that are all non refundable.

@ caryscott: Sure you can make a great product anywhere. You can do anything in theory. However - and from my own personal experience - American-made products generally cannot compare in quality to their European or Asian made counterparts. It's a fact of life in American design and manufacturing that corners are always skipped and standards are constantly compromised to meet the bottom line. An exception to this phenomenon is Apple, which consistently out-innovates its competitors and sets new, high standards in quality and manufacturing. Their employees are also among the happiest in the industry. And look at how wildly successful they are!

Yes, you can make a great product anywhere. Hardly any of them are made here.

sshrivastava, you hit the nail on the head! Sad part is about American manufacturing is that is the production people on the floor can voice their opinions, facts and concerns to management about what is going on, but it goes upon deaf ears and the standard answers are as follows, we dont have the budget for that, that would slow down production or stop or it for a while, that would add to our labor cost. Then at the end of the year, management and corporate are rolling around in there bonus checks...go figure. In the past, so many american companies wanted to "copy" toyota's quality control program, as it set the standard in the world wide industry of manufacturing. As a result of the mishaps for toyota the last year, I dont think any company will be looking at them to copy there QA program anymore as it too has flaws in it and has been a major embarassment to the Japanese. It goes to show you, no one or no country is perfect.

In my opinion it's all about the company and the final product they want to supply the consumer. Example, Honda Motor Company. They are known for their legendary reliability. They maintain this status even though 95% of the vehicles sold here are assembled in the USA. It comes down to company culture and values. American companies missed the boat on this years ago when they tried to start selling crap to the masses forcing quality to take the back seat. The fact that Miele has been able to resist this for over 100 years is a testament to their determination to make the best product possible. This is why I choose to buy their appliances and one of the reasons I would recommend anything they make. Back to the topic: Go for the W4842, I love it and it will be much more customizable in the future via pc update. Endless possibilities when you have a display screen for options.

Mieleforme said:it will be much more customizable in the future via pc update. Endless possibilities when you have a display screen for options.Did you read that somewhere?

I have to put my two cents in. In regards to longevity of American cars, I had a GT mustang and drove it for more than 300,000 miles. Very hard driving, I might add. Never had any issues with the engine, trans or other major components. Replaced engine computer--easy job. Replaced one (ONE!!!) clutch. Next car Ford Taurus. 150,000 miles until my son blew the engine on a very, very hot day in So. Cal. while going up the grapevine. Current car, 2001 explorer. 150,000 miles, no repairs other than A/C. We also have a 2001 GMC truck, no repairs. During this period, my co-workers have gone through the following: BMW Z3 with unbelievable repairs, 5 Series with constant quality issues, A3, VW Passat, C300 with a few service issues. Others in my office have had various american cars. None of the European cars has held up like the American cars.

How does this relate to washers? My take is that the issue is with RELIABILITY. It is wonderful that Meile and Bosch have good customer service (once you get past the apparent arrogance), but given the prices paid it appears that the machines fail the reliability test.

We are about to replace a 10-year old Fisher & Paykel for which we paid a premium, but nothing like the premium for the others. This machine was simple and appeared to be well-engineered. Got lots of use and with 2 teenagers at home doing their own laundry this machine likely took lots of abuse. Only reason we are looking to replace it is due to the cost of the repair needed at this time exceeds the value of the machine.

What is more expensive, a 500 dollar repair on a Miele or a 500 dollar repair on a Maytag? The reality is that most folks would just rather spend 500 toward the new 1000 dollar machine and get newer, more modern appliances than those who care about how many years they kept it going.
I can keep a machine going for as many years I am willing to do the work myself.

I dont believe in todays global markets with so many models that are produced every year trying to keep up with modern science, technology, and environmental standards that many people will be keeping machines 20 years or even able to find parts for all those models for 20 years.

Nissan used to make one of the most reliable cars in the industry. One day they made a corporate decision to stop supplyin ANY parts for their older models leaving many folks with dead autos that had to be junked out.

Dont think even Miele wouldnt do whatever it takes to keep thier corporation afloat in a tough global market.

@todathome: My sister had horrible experiences with her Ford Probe and Ford Explorer. Never-ending transmission problems and one failure after another in the first 5 years of ownership. The problems with the Explorer were so bad that the dealer had to take it back and give my sister a new one. Never a Ford. Never.

Drove my 1997 Acura Integra to over 360,000 miles and only once had to replace a radiator hose - in addition to normal maintenance like clutch, breaks, etc. More problems with my VW 2002 VW Jetta - failing electronic components, shorts in the electrical system, leaks, etc. The two best cars I've ever owned were my 1997 Acura Integra and my 2007 Toyota Prius.

@fordtech: A $500 repair is still cheaper than buying a new $1,000 machine. I think the more a product costs, the more likely you are to repair it when it fails and the less likely you are to replace the product. Here are some photos I found on another web site showing the internals of the W484X. Would anyone care to provide insights on the "quality" of the internals compared to their less expensive counterparts?

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I have a fellow worker who has a Mercedes 390 E class. He has spent a fortune on maintenance. Every failure costs about the price of a new Miele. But his wife INSISTS on a new Mercedes every time she wants a new car. Just the way it is with some folks.

This thread is surely far from its original intent. I posted my findings based on first-generation series of the W 48XX and T 98XX. Miele in now into the second-generation of this series and I have seen posts by Larsi regarding some front door/drum gasket issues, and there were some vibration concern by another; Larsi came to a resolution, and I do not know what happened to the person with the vibration issues. But to be fair to Miele the washer is a tad short of third-hundred pounds so floor construction will always be a consideration with that amount of weight.

I recommend anyone buying Miele’s to purchase the extended warranty or wait until Miele is offering the extended warranty as an incentive to buy perk. Have Miele certified installers do your installation to avoid any fine-print issues (e.g., lightning strikes).

From what I have learned Miele made these models for North America for several reasons:

2. Competition was offering large capacity, and customers were inquiring about this and other features (e.g., bleach dispensing).

3. They were losing sales to people who were turned-off or did not have access to 220V in their homes.

There is no doubt that Miele stepping into this territory was stepping-out of their comfort level and their expertise with their existing products. However, I do believe Miele is making a concerted effort to better these products. Will the competition outpace Miele? That is yet to be seen. I do appreciate that Miele products are not “gimmicky.” Would anyone care to provide insights on the "quality" of the internals compared to their less expensive counterparts?

This is tall order, and you really have to be at the machine while disassembling it to see how Miele has thought matters through. I can say that Miele uses highly-skilled labor to build these units as the different fasteners, and materials they secure require a deft hand. One clue to Miele’s comprehensiveness is that the back of these washers and dryers are finished similar the sides and front. In others words you can have your Miele washer dryer in the center of your room and the backs would be perfectly acceptable in an exhibition setting.

On another note, the styling of these units is exceptional. It would take another long post to describe how well the styling on these units is thought-out. There are some very complex styling cues that all come together and make it look easy, but in reality that are very difficult to accomplish. Miele products remind me very much of Bang & Olufsen, and Apple.

I've read criticisms of the W48XX for not having holes in the drum fins. After closely observing the wash action, the fins do actually scoop up water and throw it back over the top of the laundry. The water appears to hitch a ride on the side of the fin as the drum turns through the pool of water at the bottom. Miele makes other machines with perforated fins, so I don't believe this is something Miele would have overlooked. The design is intentional.

In my experience, the more expensive appliances do have better performances. Reliability is still a crap shoot even in expensive appliances. My Miele appliances are not old enough to really know.

The only old Miele that I have is a vacuum, about 10 years old. There was a plastic part that I had to replace because it cracked and leaked air. I thought that it should have been made better so that did not happen. Yes, the motor is more powerful and longer lasting. However, if the other parts start to fall apart, then hmmmm.
i think a lot of people are not looking into the reason why appliances are not repaired but instead replaced. I have had both expensive appliances in my house and middle of the road appliances in my rental houses that i own. For me personally, the repair records are not that great for expensive items, including Miele. I will "pay" to have my expensive appliances repaired since my initial cost was so high. For items where the repair has to be made at 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost of a new appliance, I will not repair. I will replace to make my tenants happier with new appliances. This comes backs to replacement versus lasting 5 years only. My expensive appliances needed repairs at 5 and 10 year marks, so I pay to have the repairs done because I do not want to have lower performance appliances in my house. (I must have washers that heat water to an exact temperature that I set! I will NOT go back to having hot/warm/cold on my washes!) My 10 year old washer washes at temperatures up to 205F. I will have to spend $3000 or more to replace this washer when it dies. I will pay a few hundred to repair this washer because that is still cheaper than $3000.. I want my built in refrigerator to be able to set temperature digitally, not dials from 1 to 10 etc.

For example, I know many families that will repair their built in refrigerator even though the repair cost is in the thousands of $ because the option of replacing a built in refrigerator with matching door is MORE expensive, ie a brand new kitchen.
When I rent condo units, I am appalled at how dirty the dishes are if I don't rinse them first. I have had Bosch, Asko, and Miele DWs are my home and I have never prerinsed.

I am not really sure if Miele performance record in America will repeat the performance record that it has had in Germany. Only time will tell..... I have a few Miele products and we will see.

A manufactured product is only as strong as its weakest part. No matter how well you engineer something, there will always be a weak link somewhere. You can buy the most expensive, well built car in the world but you'll still get a flat tire.

I opted for the big Miele due to capacity and quality reasons. My previous washer was an Asko W6761 (less than 2 cuft capacity) and I needed something bigger. However, the Asko had features 8 years ago that today's big Miele lacks - exact temperature settings up to 205F, anti-crease tumble up to 2 hours after the load is finished, true H-axis, 220V operation, 4 custom programmable buttons for your own favorite feature settings, profile wash, etc.

But what I've given up in control I've gained in capacity. Moving to a XL sized machine meant giving up most, if not all, of these things anyway - so why not go with a Miele? I've seen how the competition is built - no thanks.

Can any T9822 or T9820 owners tell me how the dryer's reverse tumble performs? Our current dryer knots our king sheets and duvet covers so much that we have to shake them out 3 or 4 times during the drying cycle. A reversing dryer is on the list of "must haves" for our new washer/dryer.

I specifically mention the gas dryer because somone on the forum (Larsi?) mentioned that the gas dryer doesn't reverse as much or often as the electric. Does this affect the performance?

Thanks,

W-R

We had the first generation W48xx gas dryer...and it was awful. I know Miele does offer a free software upgrade and whatever else they do to increase performance. I will NEVER own a gas dryer again.

With our first generation Miele gas dryer, it tumble reversed, but not as much as previous, smaller electric Miele dryers.

Our W48XX Electric dryers start reverse tumbling almost right away, and do so until the very end. ALSO, we had the EXTENDED COOLDOWN / EXTENDED REVERSE CYCLE set by a Miele Technician. So now, the last 10 mins of each cycle, the laundry is reverse tumbled (a lot of back and forth) with cool air. EVERY load is untangled, fluffy, virtually wrinkle free and as perfect as can be. LOVE my Miele T9820 electric dryer!!!

W-R, Miele performed a software update on the gas dryer so not sure if Larsi's comments would still apply. My friend has the gas Miele and loves it.

IMPORTANT UPDATE
For Miele T9820 Gas Dryer Owners & Users
As an owner and / or user of the T9820 gas dryer, we want to make you aware of an important, performance-enhancing software update which we highly recommend for your appliance.

Miele has developed a software update that monitors and controls temperature more precisely, ensuring that the dryer will consistently perform to the standard you expect from a Miele product.

In my current dryer, I dry the fitted sheet seperate from the rest and never have a ball problem. You should probably call Miele directly and ask them about the gas tumbling less than the electric. I have found them to be very helpful. They would have the most up to date information for you.

Tel: 1-800-565-6435
Fax: 1-800-704-7232
Email: customercare@miele.ca

Are you going for the 10 year free warranty deal?

OOPS...I meant LOVE my T9802 Electric Dryer!!! :)

Livebetter,

I'm thinking about it. It is sooner than I wanted to because a) the new laundry room isn't done yet and b) I'm cheap (not that I won't be cheap later).

I think I will push this decision out until the very last minute (Feb 13) and then book delivery for early April. That gives me a few months to finish the room. It will also give me plenty of time to over analyze.

I am sure I will have tons of technical questions in the meantime. Like - does anyone see a problem installing these machines in a space that is 58" wide? The washer will be 1-1/2" from a wall on the right hand side and the dryer will be 1-1/2" from the face of the cabinets on the left hand side. The doors will only be able to open a little more than 90deg.

Thanks,

W-R