Thanks Violet - so no tendril action whatsoever on the bush types eh? And vining cuke lengths/heights are indeterminite I take it! Planted plenty of viney things - most give at least an estimate of how long the things get.... re) veggies - guess it would also depend on how long the growing season is too, right? Trying to make the most of my tiny yard, so thanks for the help! 'tis appreciated. :) Sandy

Would need to see the recipes your talking about to address any issues of safety. There is a standard recipe for Marinated Cucumbers and Onions in vinegar, sugar and salt & pepper. But it sure can't be stored in the fridge for "months", more like a week, and no the brine doesn't need to 'cover' the sliced vegetables. All the water in the cukes quickly dilutes the vinegar so the pH rises and bacteria becomes an issue. As to 2x the sugar to the amount of vinegar - you can't make a comparison there. It's like comparing apples to onions in terms of their purpose. :) It takes a great deal of sugar to offset the taste of the vinegar so many pickling recipes will call for more sugar. The ratio all depends on the recipe used. Dave

This is my favorite salad with tomatoes and cucumbers: TURKISH SHEPHERD'S SALAD 3 large tomatoes 2 medium size cucumbers 2 medium size Green Peppers 1 large red onion 1/2 bunch Parsley 7- 8 sprigs fresh mint 2 tablespoons olive oil 1 1/2 tablespoons lemon juice 1 teaspoon salt (or less to taste) Sumac powder * (This is not a marinated-type salad and is best when all the ingredients are chopped and mixed close to serving time.) Wash the vegetables; peel and halve cucumbers, removing seeds; remove stems and seeds of the green peppers, and remove the surplus parts of onion, parsley and the mint. Chop the onions, green peppers, tomatoes and cucumbers into cubes about 1 cm. In size (between 1/4 and 1/2 inch.). Finely chop the mint and parsley. Add lemon juice and salt to olive oil, whisk well and pour over the salad immediately before serving. Sprinkle lightly with sumac powder. *Note: if you don't have sumac powder, increase the lemon juice to 2 Tbs. * - Sumac powder is the ground berry of a Mediterranean evergreen and is widely used in the Middle East; the bright, red berries have an intense, sour, fruitiness. Sumac's potent flavor easily cuts through strongly flavored, rich meats. Sumac may be used in place of lemon or vinegar in any dish, particularly those of Middle Eastern origin. Use sumac over rice, on salads, or on fatty meats and kebabs. Here's another one with those two ingredients: I'm not sure why this is called Irish, other than the sauce is a pretty emerald green color. I usually don't marinate the tomatoes, just pour it on before serving. The sauce is even better served with cold poached salmon. IRISH TOMATO SALAD (4 to 8 servings) 1 small cucumber, peeled, seeded, and cut in chunks 1 small green pepper, seeded and chopped 6 scallions and tops, cut in 1" pieces 6 Tbs. fresh parsley leaves 1/2 cup fresh mint leaves 1/2 cup vegetable oil 1/4 cup lemon juice 1/2 tsp. salt, or to taste 4 large tomatoes, thinly sliced red leaf lettuce Mix together cucumber, green pepper, scallions, parsley and mint in blender for several seconds. Add vegetable oil, beginning with a few tablespoons and using up to 1/2 cup, as preferred. Add lemon juice and salt. Blend for several seconds. Pour mixture over tomato slices and let stand 1-2 hours. Arrange over red leaf lettuce and serve. Source: The Central Market Cookbook

sliced cucumbers with vinegar, sugar, dill, onion... would be a jar of pickles or a jar of relish (coarse chopped). You could then open the jar and add whatever you wished to it after opening. So the only issue is finding a sliced dill pickle recipe that includes enough vinegar to cover onions too or a relish recipe that already calls for the onions and then add bit of sugar to it. Check out Fresh Dill Relish at NCHFP and make the following changes: coarse chop instead of dicing (you could probably slice instead but the processing will make slices pretty soft) leave out bell peppers, mustard seed, and garlic reduce sugar to taste (1 cup may be too much for you) use fresh dill to taste but no more than ratios in the recipe use white vinegar if you prefer See what you think. Dave Edited to add: don't reduce the brine and don't over-pack the jars, make sure it is sloshy in the jars and then drain after opening if necessary.