I don't currently have any lighting suggestions, but I don't believe they'll let you put the electrical panel in the Hall Closet. The NEC (&CEC) prohibit panels in "clothes closets", which a "Hall Closet" probably is. In any case, because they can't really control what a closet in a residence is going to end up containing, many jurisdictions consider any closet in a residence a "clothes closet" when it comes to electrical panels.

And another "in any case": wherever the panel does end up, there must be a clear space 36" wide and 30" deep in front of the panelboard, where nothing is permitted to be. This requirement is rather incompatible with the idea of a closet. (Note: I could be slightly off on those dimensions.)

For starters, plan on having only two over the breakfast bar. Mine is 71" and I thought 3 would be too many. I've seen three, and IMO looks to be over-the-top.

As for the recessed, you should definitely have some concerns. I had a neighbor who remodled a few months ago, and his ceiling looked like a landing strip with way too many lights, which also included the family room. He was so unhappy he had his builder return and disconnect/patch.

Your breakfast bar/sink area are set up exactly like mine, and i've gone with the two pendants only. On the other side are my ovens/stove, and I have two rows of 3 lights, evenly spaced~they give PLENTY of light. You'll have to decide how many would accommodate *your* life style. I would go with less rather than more, otherwise you might find yourself looking up at a landing strip.

They don't necessarily need to be directly over an appliance such as the stove. IMO, it's more important to have them lined up and spaced evenly. I couldn't imagine having them 'dotting' the entire ceiling. Hope i've helped.

Instead of recessed lighting, you may consider using a fixture of fixtures that will give you more ambient lighting. Recessed lighting being a directional light, can create harsh downward shadows. A ceiling mounted fixture that is omni-directional, or a fixture like an up-turned bowl, can provide indirect light off the ceiling for a softer light layer.

In my own kitchen project, meeting Title 24 was very difficult given the lack of variety of fluorescent fixtures. The only fluorescent up-turn bowl fixtures that I could find which matched my kitchen style where too expensive for me to use. A link to them is provided below. Instead, my main fixture while still expensive, is flexible by having both halogen MR16 bulbs and T5HO fluorescent. The MR16 can provide directional task lighting on my island (if necessary), while the fluorescent T5HO tubes indirect light off the ceiling. This arrangement works best if the ceiling is a light color.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lightolier indirect pendant

Keep in mind with the way that Title 24 is written- if you use two low efficacy pendants at roughly 60 watts each, you HAVE to use 120 watts of high efficacy for the rest of your lighting- even if you don't need it.

And that's a lot of light for a small kitchen.

But, forget fluorescent. Use the LR6 (sorry, have to recommend it again) LED recessed light. It is fully dimmable and much more environmentally friendly than fluorescent fixtures. It is also twice as efficient as fluorescent.

Just search for "LR6" on Google.

It'll give you that warm color you want, as well.

The LR6 will take care of the lighting. It actually spreads the light at about 180 degrees, so your issues of shadowing won't really come up (assuming the cans are placed correctly). Mount the can centered over the edge of your counters. You won't need anything in the center of your kitchen.

Keep in mind that you'll need the Title 24 version of the LR6. It has a special socket which cannot be used with low efficacy fixtures.

Anyway, every trade person I work with now uses the LED recessed instead of fluorescent. It literally solves every negative aspect of fluorescent lights. The only next step is to make it smaller- it's a 6" now.

Consider this though:

Seven LR6 LED cans= 84 watts of power usage with ~500 watts worth of incandescent light. 25+ year life span.

Seven 26 watt fluorescent cans= 182 watts of power usage, with less light. 4 year (if you're lucky) life span.

And here's the bad thing about Title 24, with only 84 watts with the LED, you won't have enough of a credit to use two pendant lights (unless they're fluorescent). So either you put in more cans and use more energy, or you.... get around it. I'm sure your electrician has some ideas of what to put in to pass code....

The LR6 compares well for light output with 65BR30 and 18 watt compact fluorescent but not with 75Par30FL or 26 watt compact fluorescent in a reflector trim. The LR6 and 18 watt fixtures are not bright enough for kitchen work surfaces at about 13 foot candles. Most lighting design guides call for a minimum of 20 foot candles and up to 50 for cooking tasks. If supplemented with under cabinet lighting these can work but not alone, spaced similarly as what one could do with 26 watt fluorescent. With higher ceilings deigners often have to go to 32 watt compact fluorescent.

From the LR6 spec sheet it seems you've inserted 26 watt fixtures where they company is saying 18 watt as comparable.

This is exciting stuff alright but it is not the do all tool for kitchens yet. We need more ooomf from it, especially for older eyes. There are other companies with more light output but they are lacking in other areas.

Here is a link that might be useful: LR6 spec sheet

Sorry. I have to disagree just a little (surprise!). And I'm just going from experience and preferences of designers and installers I work with. But I've seen them use over 200 pieces this year- mainly for kitchens. Although a good amount have been used as retrofits for other rooms. It's more than enough for a kitchen with an 8' ceiling. We've been successful in kitchens up to 12 feet.

One thing to remember too is the LR6 does a better job directing the light down. Whereas with a fluorescent you need a bright, reflective trim.

I have one on display right next to a 50 watt MR16. They're side by side to show customers. The MR16 is brighter (and still my preference), but the LR6 is darn close.

Let's put it this way, if they weren't working for my customers (homeowners and trade), I wouldn't spec them.

So when it comes to Title 24 in kitchens, and the fact that nobody likes fluorescent, the LR6 is a perfect alternative.

Thanks everyone for your input.

solarpowered, that's the existing subpanel in the closet. I'm hopeful (but also doubtful) that maybe they will let me keep it there. I've had conflicting advice - some say that because I'm not adding any circuits, I will be able to keep it. Others say that just touching the panel will constitute a change and will require moving it. I think if we have to move it, we might move it to the outside of the same closet (facing the kitchen entryway).

patty-cakes, thanks for the tip on the pendant lights. I think we will stick with 2. (Which is also probably for the best, as 3 would've given us problems with Title 24 too). I am concerned about the ceiling looking like a landing strip and am trying to weigh that with all of my other concerns. I'm finding this really difficult to find the perfect solution.

modernhouse, the indirect pendant is an interesting idea. Do you have any pictures of your kitchen and light fixture? I also posted this question on the lighting forum and someone there suggested using a ceiling fixture instead of recessed lights too. In some ways I really like this idea - that the indirect light off the ceiling would be softer than downlighting. I'm worried though that it would not give me enough fluorescent wattage to offset the halogen pendants. Also, because our cabinets will be so dark, I was hoping to cast some pools of light down the cabinet fronts.

lightguy and dim4fun, thanks for the discussion about LEDs. I'm interested to see what these lights look like. We have LED lights in the garden, but they have a bluish-tinge. It sounds like these recessed LEDs have a warmer color, similar to incandescent. Dimmable is great too. How do they compare price-wise to fluorescent cans? I will have fluorescent undercabinet lighting, so that would be my main task lighting. The cans would be more for ambient lighting and to light cabinet fronts. If I have 2 x 50W halogen pendants, 68W of undercabinet fluorescents, then if I went with LED cans I should be able to make Title 24. Anyway, I'll look into it some more.

Meanwhile, I have come up with a lighting plan attempt using fluorescent and halogen. In the diagram below, green is Fl undercabinet lighting, yellow are halogen pendants, red are recessed fluorescents (26W lamps in 42W cans) and blue are dimmable recessed incandescents.

I know, it looks like a lot of light. It may well be too much light and too many holes. Here's my thinking behind it - I figure that the blue incandescents would be on a dimmer and would be dimmed most if not all of the time. If we're in the kitchen cooking, we would have the red fluorescents on. The kitchen is visible from the living and dining areas, so when we're not in the kitchen, we could just have the pendants and the blue incandescent lights on low for ambience. In both instances, we would have the U/C lights on.

Is this a stupid idea? Would it look odd to have 2 kinds of recessed lights? I'm totally out of my element here, but trying to educate myself.

Any suggestions welcome. I'm also open to the idea of a ceiling fixture, if I can also find a way to put some light on the upper cabinets and have some dimmable light for ambience (maybe I could use the LEDs for this ...)

Here's a couple of ideas with LEDs (purple) and a fluorescent ceiling fixture (red) ...

I don't know about using both fluorescent and incandescent/ LED cans. You're going to get different color temperatures of light and have different looking fixtures in the ceiling.

The LED bulbs, including a Title 24 can, will run about $130.00 or so. Call around. You can potentially find it cheaper.

To be fair with the comparison, a dimmable fluorescent can is about $200.00, plus the trim, bulb and dimmer- with the dimmer running around $100.00.

A regular fluorescent can of good quality is probably around $60.00 for the can, trim and bulb. Just don't break the bulb or else you'll have to call the Hazmat team. ;)

A central fixture is a good idea. But you'll have to put some sort of fluorescent in it for code. You can change it out later. But with cans it will be redundant.

Also, look for LED under cabinet lights. Same deal- more efficient than fluorescent, longer lasting and safer for the environment.

I like the second layout with the 7 purple dots. Put one more can on the left where it's labeled 'under cabinets' and take out the center light.
Use one dimmer for the cans, one switch for under cab and one dimmer for the pendants. You'll have more than enough light.

Thanks lightguy :)

How's this? ...