White wheat is similar to red wheat. The plants are alike and both come in hard or soft varieties. Just use it where you would use a commercial whole wheat flour (which is milled from red wheat varieties).

The bran color is what is different. The bran color is determined by one, two, or three major genes that don't affect other plant traits. White wheat has NO major genes for bran color. This makes the flour a little sweeter, and much less bitter. The bitter taste in whole wheat flour comes from the bran.

It will work for cookies, but will probably have a higher protein level than all-purpose flour, so take care not to over-mix them and develop too much gluten (which can change the finished cookie). You may find using it as a substitute for as much as 50% of the all-purpose flour more to your liking. Not all recipes readily translate from bleached/unbleached flour to whole wheat flour - and especially if you're not accustomed to working with or consuming whole wheat flour.

-Grainlady

Thank you for your reply, glad I held off using it as white. I think I'll try using it in bread as a substitute for ww flour, not 100%, DH complains about anything that might have some nutritional aspects in it, I really have to be sneaky; I kid him telling him he's as picky as the cat who's offended even when I change the height of the cat dish! DH begs for that fluffy white bread, poor thing; I'll see how a loaf of bread with part WWW goes over, but no bread baking until it cools down around here. Surprise, today's a good day to bake cookies, it's overcast today but don't know for how long.

Cookies and dinner rolls are a good place to add some white whole wheat flour - in combination with all-purpose or bleached/unbleached bread flour. The light color and mild taste of WHITE whole wheat flour is a good choice for people with picky palates who don't like "whole wheat" anything....and you'd like to add some wholegrain goodness. Most folks can't resist fresh baked cookies and dinner rolls - while they seem to fall suspect of anything besides white bread.

I use freshly milled white wheat or spelt for most of my baking. It took about 6 months to get hubby off commercial bread products, and now he thinks commercial bread is insipid.

I beat the heat of baking by using my Sharp Convection/Microwave Oven. Two panned loaves of bread bake perfectly in 25 minutes, and NO preheating. I also bake quite a bit in a Solar Oven. Since I bake all our breads and other baked goods, I wanted to figure out a way to do it without heating up the kitchen too much, and save energy.

-Grainlady

I use it in some of my recipes..But you have to add a few tablespoons more to a cup when "subbing"..I don't sub all the AP with it, though.
But I like the little extra protein boost and fiber that we are getting in our rolls, cookies and breads.
I usually sub out 1 c plus 2 T for 1 c of AP.

Substitute a cup in Waffle and Pancake mix. It will make them a little more tender.

I you need a Waffle recipe, I'll post it.

I use it in my Braided Bread also and Cinnamon Bunns.

DH loves waffles, and now I make my own Krusteaz mix with healthier oil. Yes, 307, would love to have your waffle recipe. I'd like to adapt it to use WWW flour. Thanks all for the helpful information. It's motivating me to substitute it in some of those most often used recipes to see how they go over.

LOUS
Pancakes and Waffles Recipe

2 ½ cups milk
2 eggs ( separated ) .
1/3 cup of veg. Oil
2 tablespoon of vanilla
Pinch of salt
½ cup Sugar

1 cup of Wheat Flour
4 teaspoons Baking Powder
All Purpose flour
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Mix Pancake Batter:
Put the first 6 ingredients ( except egg whites ) in a mixing bowl and beat until smooth.
Put in the Wheat flour, Baking pwd. and some All Purpose flour.
Beat until smooth. Add enough flour to thicken slightly,
(were it leaves ripples while mixing) not thin and loose.
Beat the egg whites with a teaspoon of sugar, until peaked.
Add ½ the egg whites to the batter and fold in easy.
Beat the other ½ of the whites until very stiff and fold these in also.
I put plastic in between pancakes for freezing.

For Waffles:
Thicken a little more, to where you have to move it around with a spoon,
when it is put on the waffle iron . Then do the egg white thing as in the pancake batter.
When baked I cool them fast on a rack and put them in a plastic bag,
and right in the freezer.

If you overcook a little, dampen slightly with water,
before you put them in the toaster oven.

As for the waffle iron , I have a very old round one with adjustable heat Range.
It makes a waffle about ½ inch + thickness. For me this is just right,
for the amount of butter and syrup that you can put on top.
I donÂt use the Belgium Waffle Maker ; except when IÂm adding
Ice cream and fruit topping , because itÂs too much waffle for the
amount of syrup and butter. But may be good for you.!

If I want a Belgium Waffle, I just make a double decker and
put fruit or whatever filling in between.
Then you have more cooked surface area , on the Waffles.

You will have to regulate the cooking to your wafflemaker. I use mine hot, so they cook in a minute or so.
If you like the recipe let me know.

Here is my Plaited Bread Recipe.

Luigis - - - Plaited Bread or Dough for Cinnamon Buns Etc.

2 cups of milk, (warm ) - - 1 1/3 cup of Sugar
3 large eggs- beaten (save ½ egg w. a little milk for basting )
1 teasp.+ of Vanilla - - ½ cup + of oil - - ½ teasp. Salt
2 packs of Fleischmans Active dry yeast
AP Flour - 3 cups to start ( probably about 6 total ) enough to knead into a soft ball that doesnt stick to your hands. You can Substitute a cup or two of WW Flour.

Stir the yeast in a 1/3 cup of warm water w. ½ spoon of sugar, to test it for raising.

In a large mixing bowl, or (KA mixer) place the warm the milk ( not hot )
add the sugar ,vanilla , salt & eggs
Beat until the sugar is dissolved and add the Yeast and mix well.
Add 3 cups of flour and mix with mixer a few minutes or by hand.
Add flour until you make a soft Ball of dough that doesnt stick to your hands.
Dont make it stiff , try to keep it a "soft dough." Sprinkle some flour
under the ball and knead it until smooth. Place it in a large bowl, Rub some oil on top.
Cover with a damp towel and place in a warm spot until double.

Punch it down and knead the dough again. Then cut into 2 pieces ( 2 loaves ).
Divide each piece into 3. Roll each of these 3 pieces into the shape
of a sweet potato ( about 10 in long ).
With the basting ( egg ) mixture and wet the tips of the 3 pieces and stick them together at one end . Then spread the other end the shape of an arrow Place the 2 shaped loaves on lightly oiled cookie tins, or loaf pans.
Preheat the oven to 400 deg.
Spray some Pam on the loaves or brush with oil. This will keep them from drying while raising. When doubled in size (about 20 min.) place in the oven , top shelf and bake until
slightly tan. Baste them with the egg mix and rotate them back into the oven and
( Turn temperature down to 325 deg.)
Baste again when they are a dark tan. Cook till a rich brown, mahogany color.
Take them out of the pans onto a rack to cool. Control yourself !!!! Let them cool !!!
This sounds like a lot to do but it is easy and should take only 10 minutes to mix and shape. The most time is in the waiting for the dough to rise and for the bread to cool .
But it do look great !!! & Professional

This dough can also be used for Cinnamon Buns ,

Thank you so much for the recipes. I only have a Belgium waffle maker as I replaced my 3 regular wafflers with one Belgium. Usually I keep a lot of old unused equipment around but I started a new philosophy when I got the waffler. I'll let you know how they turn out. We only have waffles on weekends but won't be able to fit this in this weekend. I'm anxious to try the plaited bread, never made that before.

I forgot to put in the picture.

Baked in a loaf pan:

grainlady, can you please post your Sharp model #? Can you do delicate stuff like scones?

jessyf - Sure thing... Purchased 7/2002 from Lowe's.

SHARP Carousel
Over-the-range Convection Microwave Oven - R-1870
(also has hood fan and filter)

I can bake anything in it that I bake in my regular oven. I can also roast and broil in it. The turntable (carousel) can be turned off if you are using a pan that is too big to be able to turn completely (it will accomodate a 13x9x2-inch baking (cake) pan, tube or bundt pan, and a 12-cup muffin tin). For cookies, I use 12-inch pizza pans (covered with parchment paper), and they are the perfect size and bake quickly because they can go around on the turntable. I can bake two pizza pans at once using a rack + the turntable. I can bake free-formed breads directly on the turntable (which is essentially a mini baking stone).

It has a defrost feature for ground meat, steaks and chicken without cooking them in the process.

There is also a sensor setting. This is a semi-conductor device that detects the vapor (moisture and humidity) emitted from the food as it heats. The Sensor adjusts the cooking times and power level for various foods and quantities.

-Grainlady

Thanks Grainlady!

Oh, will you look at that, our downstairs microwave (circa 1992) just bit the dust. Tsk Tsk what shall we do now....(she runs off to measure the cavity)?

Grainlady -

At one time I bought white whole wheat flour from King Arthur's and didn't have luck with it. It got so old I ended up throwing most of it out.

I purchase whole wheat products, usually at Trader Joe's, and enjoy eating brown rice, beans and lentils. We've gradually gotten away from white breads and rice.

However, I haven't had much luck with cooking with whole wheat. Most recipes seem to recommend 1/2 ww and 1/2 all- purpose flour. The A-P four is what I'm trying to avoid in baked goods. I also don't want to use refined white sugar.

Do you have recommendations for where to find good recipes either online or in a book? I love the taste of stone ground breads and multi-grains.

Kari

Kari - I mill white whole wheat (both hard and soft varieties) into flour, as well as a large variety of grains, beans, seeds, so it's always fresh. That is a huge benefit for taste over commercially milled wholegrain flours. Using commercially milled whole wheat flour just wouldn't be an option for me, it tastes terrible compared to freshly milled. To me, it's like the difference in taste between instant tea and a well-brewed cup using high-quality loose tea leaves.

I used one bag of King Arthur White Wheat Flour when it first came out, out of curiosity, and much like your experience, I didn't get great results. Because they mill the whole grain, by the time it leaves the mill - is transported - warehoused - shelved in the store - it's already lost most of the nutrition and the wheat germ oil is already degrading and quickly goes rancid - which is the "off" taste most people experience with commercially whole wheat flour.

I use freshly-milled flour within 24 hours of milling (keeping it refrigerated during that time), or freeze it. I never keep freshly milled flour for more than a week. Even frozen, the nutrients degrade, and that's why I choose to mill grain and use it fresh. That's the only way to maintain high amounts of nutrition, fiber, and taste, compared to anything that is commercially milled.

I just bought 50-pounds of Hard Spring White Wheat on Sunday.

-Grainlady

Grainlady -

Where do you buy your wheat?

How do you mill it?

What would be a good source for recipes?

I really admire your dedication to eating healthy whole grains. We have a bread bakery near us called Loafers that mills its flour on site and their breads are wonderful.

Kari

Grainlady - you know your grains so I have a question. I use WW pastry flour for baked goods like cookies, quick breads and muffins and of course pastry like pie crusts. What makes that different from regular WW flour? Less gluten?
Thanks.
Clare

Kari & Clare -

Kari -

My sources for wheat:
1. locally grown hard winter red and white wheat (free or very cheap, but usually NOT chemical-free or organic)
2. Heartland Mill, Marienthal, KS - organic grains
3. Bob's Red Mill - soft white wheat (and other grains)
4. Wal-Mart - Hard Spring White Wheat - Prairie Gold (from Wheat Montana - chemical-free) - they also carry hard red wheat Bronze Chief. Wal-Mart has only recently started carrying Wheat Montana wheat around here - $5 for 25-pounds.

Mills:
1. (A very old) Whisper Mill - which is an electric impact mill (now known as a Wonder Mill) - this mills most grains/seeds/beans into a very fine flour - fine flour = fine bread, coarse flour = coarse bread.

2. Marga Mulino Flaker Mill - for cracked grain, flakes, and coarse farina (for cooked cereal)

3. Corona Corn Mill - for coarsely milled grain and corn meal.

4. Porkert Seed Grinder - for small seeds, such as amaranth, poppy seeds, teff, etc.

5. Bosch Coffee/Spice - for milling flaxmeal.

6. Family Grain Mill - a hand mill, that also has an electric-powered motor to run it as well, that has a lot of attachments available for other uses (meat grinders, flakers, etc.). This is my back-up mill. You have to mill the flour twice to get a reasonably fine grind of flour.

Source for recipes:
I suggest you start by substituting unbleached/bleached flour in your favorite recipes with a portion of wholegrain flour. There are all kinds of books out there on whole wheat baking. I have a collection of 28 beans, seeds, and grains that I use milled and whole - included in that, several types of wheat. I develop many of my own recipes because I use really "odd" ingredients, including gluten-free baking.

Here's a few books I like from the large selection in my library:

RECIPES FROM THE OLD MILL
(Baking with Whole Grains)
by Sarah E. Myers and Mary Beth Lind

WHOLE WHEAT COOKERY
(Treasures from the Wheat Bin)
by Howard and Anna Ruth Beck

THE AMAZING WHEAT BOOK
by LeArta Moulton

THE SPLENDID GRAIN
(all kinds of seeds and grains)
by Rebecca Wood

WHEAT COOKIN' MADE EASY
by Pam Crockett
---------------

Clare -
Wheat comes in HARD (strong/high-gluten) and SOFT (weak/low-gluten) varieties. Whole Wheat Pastry Flour is milled from (low-gluten) soft red wheat, just like you thought. It's best used just as you described - in baked goods where you don't want a lot of gluten development - for the most part, anything other than yeast breads. Low-gluten bleached flour would include White Lily and Martha White - which are great for quick breads, pastry, etc.

I purchase soft white wheat berries from Bob's Red Mill to mill into whole wheat pastry flour. I also use freshly-milled spelt and some rye, barley, and triticale for baked goods that need low-gluten flour, as an alternative to soft wheat flour.

All wheat has a protein level that determins if the grain is hard or soft. Even in the same field you'll find protein (gluten) level differences from one side of the field to the other. If a portion of the field is shaded(usually at the edge of the field) and/or there's a low place in the field that retains water after a rain, the wheat that receives a lot of water/shade will usually have a low-protein count. Even though hard wheat may have been planted, the protein level is also determined by the amount of rainfall, and other factors.

Soft wheats are characteristicly plump (a lot of endosperm), while hard wheat varieties (especially winter wheat) is small, wrinkled, and very hard when you bite it. When soft whole wheat is milled, the flour is exactly that - very soft to the touch. Hard whole wheat is much 'grittier' - due to the higher percentage of bran to endosperm ratio.

All bleached/unbleached flour is milled from a combination of wheat protein levels to formulate the amount of protein for the type of flour needed. High-protein wheat is used for yeast breads, a combination of hard and soft wheat is milled for all-purpose flour, and pastry flour is milled from soft wheat.

There are also fields of extremely high protein wheats (15% or more), but they are mixed with lower protein wheat to make flour. I've used some wheat that was 16% protein, and it took forever (lots of kneading and a very long fermentation) to develop the gluten in bread - 12-13% protein level is much better for yeast bread. Too much gluten will make a tough loaf of bread.

The highest protein level wheat is durum wheat. Unlike hard red and white wheat varieties which are used for yeast breads, durum wheat is used in pasta. I mill durum for whole wheat pasta - NOT red or white varieties of wheat. Commercial whole wheat pasta is made with wholegrain durum wheat.

The elements in wheat protein that we call "gluten" are actually a gluten group - GLUTENINS and GLIADINS. Glutenins provide the elasticity quality that allows bread dough to expand. Gliadins contribute to the viscosity and extensibility of bread dough. Red and white wheat varieties have a dominance of GLUTENINS and less GLIADINS. Durum wheat has a dominance of GLIADINS and less GLUTENINS. Therefore, even though durum wheat has a high protein level, it's unsuited for bread making, due to the type of protein.

-Grainlady

Grainlady - Very interesting. Thanks.
Clare

Grainlady - Thanks. I'm going to cut-and-paste your post and read it thoroughly then check out those cookbooks.

Right now, I don't use white flour for cooking or baking at all. In other words, I've not been baking because I only want to eat whole grains so I buy those products at Trader Joe's or the bread store Loafers.

I'm looking forward to learning more to see if it something I want to delve into as a home cook.

Kari

Grainlady: Don't they use AP flour in commercial
Whole Wheat bread ?
LOU

hawk307 - Check the lable for ingredients in commercial breads. "Wheat Bread" can have a combination of whole wheat and bleached or unbleached flour (probably high-protein bread flour, not all-purpose). After all, even bleached/unbleached flour IS "wheat" flour - it's milled from the endosperm of wheat. It's just not WHOLEwheat or wholemeal, or wholegrain. This is also known as Light Wheat Bread. "100% Whole Wheat" Bread is just that, all whole wheat flour.

There are standards by which breads can be labled, and it's according to the ingredients and amounts used in the bread. The standards set by the FDA are interesting, at the very least.

"In 1999, the FDA began to allow marketers to claim that their whole-grain products could reduce the risk of heart disease and cancer--as long as the product contained at least 51% whole grain."

Buyer beware. "...Many commercial whole wheat products are primarily from white flour, with just enough bran peppered in to give them a healthful-looking brown tinge." (Quotes from Flour Power - A complete guide to 3-minute home flour milling - by Marleeta F. Basey)

Another good reason to mill your own grains/seeds/beans and make your own breads - control of ingredients.

-Grainlady

Grainlady: Thank you. That's exactly what I thought.
What you said. Not all of that really !
LOU

Hello again, Grainlady -

OK, I've been reading up on milling grains . . . and discovered that the home mills are quite expensive ($250+) for something to experiment with so I visited the local Loafers bread store that mills High Plains Hard Red Spring Wheat right there on the premises with a large stone grinder. I am able to purchase milled wheat directly from them if I order in advance so they can have it ready for me.

I can buy their wonderful breads so I don't feel the need to make bread - BUT I'd love to make things like muffins, cookies, quick breads, etc. Things that would substitute for the processed treats the kids eat (and I currently avoid but would love to enjoy again in a healthy way).

Now, I need to track down some recipes that have been developed for 100% whole wheat baked goods. Would one of the books you recommended be a good place to start, such as Recipes from the Old Mill? I'm big on ordering books from the library because I'm in Pittsburgh and we have access to the entire Carnegie Library system online - if it is anywhere at any of the branches, it will be delivered to my local branch.

I've been enjoying the St. Benedictine bread, some sprouted grain bread, and some oatmeal/stone ground wheat breads this week - and the kids have been loving them, too. It helps that I take them along to the shop where they get samples of things like chocolate/cherry bread.

Thanks again for all the info!

Kari

Kari -

You're right about the expense of grain mills! I've invested a lot in them over the years, but consider the health aspect of freshly-milled grains/seeds/beans and the great taste of wholegrains to be the divedend it has paid in the long run. A good quality grain mill should last you forever. I also took making all our breads/cereals very seriously and I live where grains are readily available free or at a fairly low cost. For me, bread is VERY cheap to make.

You ARE fortunate, however, to have a source for freshly-milled wheat and breads made from it - they sound wonderful. Just remember, keep any flour you purchase in the freezer. I never keep wholegrain flour for longer than a week. The nutrition degrades quickly, and superior nutrition to commercial flour is why I use it in the first place.

What you are missing out on by not getting a good quality grain mill is all the other grains/seeds/beans that you can mill with a home mill. If you need rye, spelt, kamut, oats or other grain milled into flour, will the mill do those for you? Probably not. And there's nothing more tasty than freshly-milled corn into corn meal for cornbread.

Not only flour, but I also mill my own multi-grain cereals (the chopped grain that is used as a cooked cereal or as an add-in to yeast breads) and make my own flakes so that they are all as fresh as possible. I mill durum wheat for my 100% whole wheat pasta. Regular (hard or soft) wheat is the wrong type of wheat to use for pasta.

I mill pinto and black beans into bean flour to eliminate the long soaking/cooking process for making refried beans. Bean flour cooks in just minutes to make and is very cheap food for making refried bean mixtures. What a time saver.... Milling small white beans into flour is a good way to add fiber and protein to baked goods.

If all the mill uses is High Plains Hard Red Spring Wheat, that is probably a high-gluten wholewheat flour (12% protein or so, you can ask them if they know) and best used for yeast and naturally-leavened breads. Soft wheat flour is a better choice for quick breads of all types - and absolutely necessary for making a delicate cake, but you'll find you can also use the flour they have available for all kinds of things - just be careful not to over-mix the hard wheat flour in quick breads, or you will develop too much gluten. Cookies may be a little more "crunchy" or dry as well.

I actually mix soft white wheat and oats (3:1 ratio) to use as cake flour. Spelt and rye flour are also good whole wheat flour substitutes in quick breads because they have some gluten for structure, but not enough to make quick breads tough.

I've included a link below to the Kansas Wheat Commission. They are a good source for recipes using whole wheat.

ENJOY!

-Grainlady

BANANA OATMEAL MUFFINS
(source: Recipes from the Old Mill)
Yields: 12 large muffins

1 c. whole wheat flour
1/4 c. sugar
3 t. baking powder
1/4 t. salt
1 c. rolled oats
1/2 c. raisins
3 T. oil
1 egg
1 c. skim milk
2 mashed bananas

Topping:
2 T. sugar
2 t. flour
1 t. cinnamon
1 t. melted margarine (or butter)
1/4 c. chopped pecans or sunflower seeds

1. Combine whole wheat flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt. Add oats and raisins.
2. Combine oil, egg, milk, and bananas. Mix well.
3. Add liquids to dry ingredients and stir only until ingredients are moist.
4. Spoon batter into greased muffin tins. Fill 2/3 full.
5. Mix topping ingredients together and sprinkle on top of each muffin.
6. Bake at 350°F for about 15-20 minutes.
--------------------------------------------

WHOLE WHEAT CHOCOLATE SHEET CAKE
(source:Cooking with Whole Wheat - Kansas Wheat Commission)

2-1/2 c. whole wheat flour
1 c. sugar
2 t. cinnamon
1/4 c. unsweetened cocoa
1 c. water
1/2 c. vegetable oil
1-1/2 t. baking soda
1 c. buttermilk
2 eggs, beaten
1 t. vanilla

Icing:
1/4 c. unsweetened cocoa
1/2 c. butter or margarine
1/3 c. milk
3 c. confectioners' sugar
1/2 c. chopped nuts

In a large bowl, combine flour, sugar and cinnamon; stir well.

In a medium saucepan, combine cocoa, water and oil; bring to a boil. Add to dry ingredients and beat 1 minute at medium speed of an electric mixer.

Dissolve soda in buttermilk; stir into chocolate mixture. Add eggs and vanilla and mix an additional 2 minutes on low speed or until combined.

Pour into a greased and floured 15x10x1-inch pan. Bake in a preheated 350°F oven for 20-22 minutes or until a wooden pick inserted in the center comes out clean. Frost cake while still warm.

To make icing, bring the cocoa, butter and milk to a bil. Remove from heat and beat in sugar and nuts. Frost cake and let cake cool completely in pan on a wire rack.

Serves 24.
Nutrients: One serving provides 208 calories, 3 g. progein, 20 g. carbohydrates, 2 g. fiber, 5 g. fat, 18 mg. cholesterol and 96 mg. sodium.

Grainlady - I'm finally back online after a bad storm knocked out our telephone and internet service for over a week!

My kids go back to school in a week so I'll be able to do more then.

Thanks for the recipes and the link. I'll check out the Kansas site to see what they have there.
In the meanwhile, I've been getting some honey whole wheat, oatmeal bread, and multi-grain bread at the local bread bakery I mentioned. My kids go bonkers for it and no wonder. It's so fresh and delicious.

Kari