Justaguy, Tom Mobley has a had unbelievable success with just 14 14 14 in his pot n pot method. I am totally new at this business, my dad who just past away this year at 99 always had a large veggie garden in NC, but I was never interested until now at 72 ! I have put some MG in the water once they started blooming, but this first big beef is unbelievable (seems to be my favorite word this morning :>)). Our weather here is very subtropical, I have two very large mango trees that people said would not survive this far north and west (away from the Atlantic and gulf stream), but put them on the South side of my 12 cbs wall of the hangar and they have done extremely well. People keep tomatoes producing here from fall until June when it apparently is so humid that they fail to set new fruit. Typical day high here summer is 92 and 90% humidity and 70 low at night. Lots of rain in summer, we've had zip where we're located here west of port st lucie this winter and spring. Sorry about how dark the pictures turned out and with my palmetto background it is really hard to see how large the first bigbeef is in the bucket. Will try again to make a picture. bernie

Good to hear from you Ken. I agree with everything he says. I use acsorbic acid as a pre dip and add it as Ken does sprinkled over the finished product as well, before I freeze. But since you already have Fruit Fresh (acsorbic mixed with citric acid) on hand, you can certainly use it as a pre dip to save the color. (Ascorbic acid works much better though). Mix with water according to the directions on the Fruit Fresh container for a pre treatment and slice the peaches right into it, doing only enough for one pie at a time so as not to let them soak too long in the dip. I also used to sprinkle more of the fruit fresh, when I used to use it, over the finished product before freezing as well. I use 6-7 cups of peeled, sliced, (red centers cut out)peaches per pie (same process for apples but I only use 6 cups apples per pie). If the peaches are ripe, you can just cut the peach into quarters, remove the pit, cut out the red inside, turn the quarter over so the skin side faces you, hold the quarter in one hand and with the other holding the knife, use the knife to grab the top of the peel as it faces you, on each quarter and pull the peel down and off. I never do the boiling thing except if the peaches are not ripe, but then I wouldn't can or freeze them anyway,but I might make jam with them. How many peaches is that? Depends on the size of the peaches... 1 pound = approx 4 medium (tennis ball size)= approx 2 cups sliced. So that would make it approx 12 medium peaches for 6-7 cups of sliced peaches for one pie, in a gallon size baggie for the freezer. My peaches just into the freezer, took 15 to 20 for 6-7 cups because they were so small and had portions cut out that were bruised. As for the clear jel, I'm still fussing with the amount. http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_02/can_pie/pie_fillings.html The recipes at the above link are for canned fillings. I use these recipes as a starting point and then freeze them. But the amount of Clear-Jel is excessive. I have printed some dialog from another post here with Carol & Linda Lou talking about the recipe for apple pie, filling: Carol- "Here's the link to the NCHFP recipe, which calls for 1 1/2 cups (Clear-Jel), but personally I'd cut it back to 1 cup or even less ClearJel unless you like your fillings really dense." Linda Lou- "I agree with Carol about the pie filling being too thick. When I helped teach the new gals at the extension office this spring I had them thin their pie filling down. No oozing out of the jars that way. Otherwise it does tend to rise up in the jars and ooze out, keeping them from sealing. The headspace when canning pie fillings is important. Corn starch should not be used for the pie fillings, only Clear Jel. Cornstarch will break down and get watery." Carol- "Another downside of those recipes. They're far more likely to boil over. I tend also to allow more a bit more headspace (3/4") for that reason. I really don't know what the extension agencies are thinking of, recommending so much thickening. I freeze ClearJel-thickened cherry pies (unbaked) and put them in the freezer with no problems whatsoever. I don't see any reason why you couldn't freeze the thickened filling. I have never experienced separation of ClearJel in the freezer. Those canned quarts are never sufficient for a pie, as far as I'm concerned. You basically have 3 cups of fruit and all that thickening. I generally use 5-6 cups of fruit per pie, so if I'm making two pies I'd use three quarts of canned fruit, only one of which would be thickened. The other two quarts would be drained of most juice and added to the thickened mixture." (me again Rebecca)- I do the peach pie filling in one of 2 ways to prepare for freezing: 1) I drain the peaches well from the dip. I put the peaches in a large bowl. I mix the Clear-Jel (I usually use about 1/4 cup per pie in 6-7 cups of sliced fruit) with a small amount of sugar, (amount of sugar can vary wildly according to the peaches and your tastes but I guess I usually start with 1/4 to 1/2 cup). I sprinkle another teaspoon or so of ascorbic acid (you= fruit fresh) over top, then I stir all very gently together with a large flat spoon or rubber spatula till sugar is dissolved, then pack into freezer gallon size baggies, press flat to remove air, seal and freeze flat until frozen, (then you can store any way you want). By the way, I really prefer the Glad freezer bags that don't use that pull zipper thing- it seems to catch on everyting in the freezer and punctures things.) Sometimes I put just the sugar over the peaches, stir gently and let sit covered for about 5-10 minutes. I can then taste the peaches to see if they need any more sweetening, or if they need a dash (1 to 3 TBS or so) of lemon juice to tart it up. I then also add my 1/8 tsp salt and seasonings, like cinnamon and/or fresh ground nutmeg and I taste again. (I do a lot of tasting, always with a clean spoon each time). The peaches will give up some juice, which I drain off into a bowl. I then add the Clear-Jel to this juice using a wisk- it can take a minute to get the juice and the Clear-Jel mixed well enough. Then I then add the juice and the Clear-Jel slurry back into the peaches/sugar/lemon juice/spices, add more fruit fresh at the last minute, mix gently and pack and freeze. 2) I lightly blanch/cook the peaches first... to dissolve the sugar, to incorporate the Clear-Jel and to pre-thicken the filling as well as to 'slump' the fruit before freezing and baking, which is the same exact process I use if I am making a pie to bake and not freeze. I do the same as #1, but I add only the suger to the sliced peaches and let them sit for about 10 minutes. Then I drain the juices off. I wisk the clear-jel well into the juices until mixed. I put the juices into a saucepan (large enough to later hold the peaches), and heat the juice on medium high stirring all the time until it just comes to a gentle boil. Then I add the lemon juice and simmer for about a minute, stirring constantly. Then I lower the heat to medium, add the peaches and simmer gently, always gently stirring, for about a minute or 2. Then I remove the peaches from the saucepan (I just put them back into the big metal bowl they sat in earlier, (I add the salt & spices anywhere along the line), where they sit, covered, until cool enough to pack, adding fruit fresh/ascorbic, and freeze. The benefit is that I can see how thick the filling is before freezing and like Ken said- if it's too thin you can make a slurry out of a small amount of water and more Clear-Jel, add to the peaches when they are still being heated, cook another minute or so and correct the thickness (too thick when cooler, like Ken said I just add some water). This summer I froze 2 unbaked peach pies, made 2 gallon bags of peach pie filling for another 2 pies and froze another 5 gallon and 4 Qt bags of plain peach slices (treated with ascorbic and packed with a light sugar syrup) that I use for peach crisp or cobbler, eating as is etc. Lastly I froze 3 QT size bags, treated with ascorbic but no sugar, (each holds 2 cups sliced peaches) that I will use to make no-sugar jam for my diabetic mother in law, in my breadmaker. Each 2 cups makes 2 half pints of jam. I have found that using 1 TBS Clear-Jel mixed in with the water, then the peaches in the breadmaker jam thickens the jam perfectly, much better than the full box of pectin the breadmaker suggested. I also mix in a tiny amount of Splenda at any point in the process if it's not sweet enough. If anyone reads this and if anyone knows- I purchased some "Therm-Flo" at an Amish type market nearby. It was next to the Clear-Jel. The Therm-Flo was marked 'canning/freezing', while the Clear-Jel was marked 'cooking'. No other directions on either. I'm getting confused with all the types that are out there. I know the link above says you must only use regular Clear-Jel for canning, NOT the instant or any other Clear Jel. But I've seen online canned pie fillings that call only for Instant. I believe Clear-Jel A is now the 'regular' Clear-Jel used in the pie fillings in the site link above. But what the heck is Therm-Flo? Is it the freezer Flo Ken refers to above? How is it used that is different than the 'regular' And what do you use the instant for? I have some of that too but don't know in what or how to use it either. Oh well....lilacs of may- enjoy having and preparing all those peaches, and don't worry. I've had soupy peach pies and dry peach pies and many perfect ones. We have loved each one regardless, hot out of the oven on a winter day, on a plate with a fork or in a bowl with cream and a spoon. It's all so good and worth the effort. Best of luck to you, Rebecca

This is just my 2 cents (or maybe 5 cents). First, your immediate issue is either your freezer or how you're packing the onions because they shouldn't be freezer-burned. That is an issue worth resolving because if one item is getting freezer-burned others are also - and that adds up to a lot of waste. Second, the issue with fats is not limited to heat penetration. Fat coats the onions (which are already low-acid), inhibiting penetration of the vinegar. Botulism likes a low-acid environment, so it's possible to add acid to a recipe but still have an environment in which low-acid pockets of product reside. That is definitely a problem. I looked at the BH&G recipe. As magazines go they are one of the more reliable canning sources, but whether that particular recipe is reliable I have no idea. BH&G has not provided information about the credentials of their test kitchen staff (i.e. regarding their background in the kinds of safety issues which pertain to canning) or their test protocols. I can say for myself that is a type of canning recipe I would not feel comfortable sealing in a jar unless I knew it was Extension Service/USDA/NCHFP vetted. Since it isn't, I'd keep on freezing it and resolve whatever issue is causing the problem there. It sounds like Dowdney is evaporating out the water to bring the pH down to 4.3, but again, depending upon where/how the mixture was tested, it might be 4.3 but contain pockets of product where the pH is considerably higher. He isn't even canning, he's just slapping lids on jars. His methods are idiosyncratic, to say the least. I might make the recipe but I'd never follow his instructions. Hypothetically you could pressure can these onions using the time for fish and be sure what you canned is "safe" but by then it would be mush. The focus of testers is to develop recipes which balance safety, texture and flavor. It's an impossible task for the home preserver. Carol

Do I have to include DH's junk food? Bags of chips and cookies, and ice cream which he is the only one to eat; he buys, stores, eats, and is totally responsible for them. Okay, that's probably only about $5 a week, but. For years I spent well under $100 per month; now we are both retired: so meals are mostly only for two, but I do use a few convenience foods. Looking at the checkbook tells me the grocery bills for the past year averaged way less than $60 per month. Note that is edible only, paper goods and other non-food are purchased separately. There's no magic used, and I don't mill grains ~ I know, that's a loss of nutrition but I do freeze the flour until it's used. We do have a vegetable garden but it's no longer the primary provider of our food and it has gradually shrunk in both size and variety ~ once you hit 70, it seems like a good idea to let the young folks do the planting & picking, lol. I buy vegs & fruit from the local farmer's market, and can or freeze whatever is in season and available at a reasonable cost. Items purchased from the grocery store are almost always on sale... milk, butter and flour are bought at a warehouse club. (Milk is 3.29 per gallon compared to best grocery price of $3.89) I grew up rural, where if you wanted to eat peaches or green beans in January you canned them the preceding summer. That isn't stockpiling, but a different way of running your pantry: grow it yourself or buy what is available at the normal harvest-time. In other words, one thinks of what will be needed between harvest this year and the harvest next year, and prepares accordingly. I do can/freeze almost everything made with tomatoes (from spaghetti sauce to catsup to juice), make all our jam/jelly, and make most meals from scratch, including bread. It takes very little effort to pre-prepare and can/freeze heat-n-eat meals, which means I don't spend money on TV dinners or other commercially prepared foods. I rotate meals containing beef, pork, or seafood, and alternate each meat-meal with a non-meat meal. Meat-meals rarely have meat as the main ingredient; there will be at least two vegs and a fruit each in servings larger than the meat portion. Quite often meat is used more as an accent or flavoring, such as in chili-mac or a stirfry. I do try to vary recipes so that no meal is repeated more often than once a month. I think it sums up this way: I cook/bake from scratch (no box mixes); most food is grown locally; most foods are purchased either on sale or at a very good price and sufficient is prepared to use for the following year; meats are eaten in small quantities and non-meat meals account for half of the dinners; there are always pre-prepared meals frozen or canned; and there is a lot of variety in recipes so boredom is prevented. Oh, and while I was working, I made a point of rarely spending more than 30 minutes fixing dinner.