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Trash placement (final cabinet layout) & Microwave Placment

11 years ago

Hi all,
I'm finalizing the cabinet layout and I'm stuck on a couple things. These are being custom built so we can play around with sizing, etc. In a nutshell, we have a galley kitchen that goes longer on one side. One the shorter side, it will be the fridge, counter, sink, dishwasher. So in this run, I will only have one bank of drawers/cabinets on the bottom (not including the sink). Originally, I was thinking it would best to put the trash pullout in that run with the silverware drawer on top. It will be 18" wide cabinet space. Now I'm thinking, would it be better to have that spot be 4 drawers since it's b/w the sink and fridge?

If we move it, I would have the trash on the range side and put it in one of 3 drawer banks to the right of the range but it will be a wider cabinet which i'm guessing would be a waste of space since it will probably be either 30 or 24".

2 things I'm thinking about: Is it gross to have your silverware drawer over the trash? Would a 4 drawer bank be more useful next to the sink or is it better to have the trash right there next to the sink (that's what I was thinking originally)?

Truthfully, nothing is very far in this kitchen and ultimately, I'd probably be totally happy with either.

Lastly, I originally was going to put the micro in a base cabinet next to the range but now I'm thinking that space is better served with drawers and I should move it to an upper cabinet next to range. My cab maker can make those hinged and slide in door cabinets but says that they start to come off the hinges all the time and he's constantly repairing them. 2 Questions: Do you think it's weird to have the micro in a regular cabinet with a door? I don't want to see it all the time and I figure if it breaks, we have a decent size space with a shelf above to just change out a microwave rather than worry about fitting a new one perfectly. And also, those with the microwaves in an upper cabinet position, how is it? (we're not a tall family)!

Thanks!

Tricia

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Comments (22)

cathy725
11 years ago
It would be good if you could post your layout for help with the trash pull-out. You could consider putting it under the sink if there's room. (I just posted about putting it under sink and several replied with pics).

If you put microwave in a cabinet it will need to be a deeper cabinet that standard upper depth. Decide on the size of your microwave so you can figure out whether this will work.

We decided to go with a microwave "semi" built-in. I say that because it will be a shelf above the counter, but have a frame around it (1/4") so it looks more built-in but will still accept most microwaves (with a cabinet above the microwave). We wanted the flexibility of a shelf with the more finished look. Hopefully it will look good when we finally get everything delivered!
Tricia21
Original Author
11 years ago
Hi Cathy -
I didn't even think of that! Can i still have it in a standard upper if i just get a smaller microwave so it fits in? like a "cabinet depth microwave?". Here are some pics. They are not exactly right as there will be some uppers where that blank wall is on the stove side. There will be an additional upper cabinet next to the stove where I was thinking of moving the micro. Then I was thinking of putting the trash either in the lower where the cabinet is to the right of the stove or at the end.
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Donka & rmkitchen I agree. I think dropping the uppers down eliminates any use of these side countertops. These countertop do have function. This eliminates any use. It is also heavier on the eye when sitting at the table because you feel more enclosed with the cabinet there. It would be even worse if the cabinet was 24" deep. The raise cabinets have more of a feeling of openness, along with the deeper counters that you would not normally have in a galley arrangement. Also you can se more of the wall paint color on either side keeping them as uppers. The other thing that one has to consider is the placement of light switches, outlets etc. Pushing out the upper cabinet eliminates any space for switches, since the most logical location is over the side counter on the wall between the kitchen/LR. These are the details I have tried to keep in mind when revising this layout. I am used to unfunctional and wide walk space. If I never came upon this forum, there would have been cabinets around the perimeter with over 7' of walkspace. This would make the kitchen feel really wide open but obviously a lot of walking and not functional. Thus this still leaves a feeling of openness is a smaller space. Actually my wife is still very leary about feeling confined in this new space and thinks its going to be small. I am trying to get her to see the light that bigger isn't better. Hearing the various viewpoints helps me make a better informed decision and know the pro's and con's. I need the storage space as well since there really is no additional closet space in this house. I currently have stuff in the garage, laundry room, office/downstairs den and the basement. Would be great to free up those areas for other things. I hope to add a mudroom within the garage in phase 2 of this project but unless I can get the stuff out of the garage and back into the kitchen that is not happening :). So not eliminating the uppers for the sake of function is a tradeoff I am willing to deal with. I think the other choices I have made in regard to function more than offset this trade-off. Also, with the deeper base cabinets on the rangetop wall at 27"( but I could fudge a little and make them 30") and the wall cabinets at 12" deep, you now only really have cabinets that are interfering 6" into the workspace as opposed to no wall cabinets with standard 24" deep counters. Is 6" really going to make that much of an impact? How wildly is one swinging mallet? I have never hit my uppers now and they are 12" and 17" off the countertop (The ones in this plan are currently at 19" off the countertop. Not sure if that is right or not) not to mention my current counter is only 24 1/2" deep. FYI the side base cabinets in the renderings above are 24" deep. I could make the rangetop counter deeper but then where is the line between practical depth and not as well as the ability to still reach even the bottom shelf of an upper? If deeper could be done and be practical I'm willing to listen. I agree with other that baking can be done on the inside corner or even prep. The reason I stated using the side counter across from the ovens had to do with solving another kitchen dilemma. This is the issue of where do you put items that can be used in more than one area. For example, measuring cups, prep bowls, measuring spoons, etc that can be used between baking, double Ovens & rangetop. My thought was if I put those items in the corner most set of drawers, they are easily accessible from both stations and no need to walk across the floor. Holligator: Going shallower I would think would be great for the spices and the oils/etc but then render the other shelving higher up difficult/impossible to use since it would be so narrow. My thought was I was going to steal Mamadadapaige's idea, where she has a spice rack on the door of the upper and then narrower shelves, where the spice rack is, to put the oils. This gives the best of both worlds I think. Single file spices on the door, Shallow lower shelves for oils, etc and then normal 12" shelves higher up for storage. IN regard to the other question about the inside corner, I did mention that above. My current plan is to use the Blum "Space Corner". Basically the drawer fronts on the left and right side and connected and you pull out one large drawer. My cabinet guy said no problem. If I don't use him or it is an issue the second choice would be a some type of susan. I will be getting new dishes and stuff and thus have no idea how big they will be but the idea was to use the base cabinets next to the fridge for the plates, owls, etc. I have to look at the platters I have and then see how wide they are and if I need to make any uppers bigger. A drawer would work but then I would think you would want narrower drawers, since the deeper drawers would probably be a waste of depth. Maybe I need to start a thread "Show me your platter storage" ;). I could put deeper uppers on the sink wall I guess. I also re examined this wall and see that technically the window is not centered over the sink. If I did do that though the window would need to shift slightly to the right. To keep white space the upper to the right of the sink would ned to become 12" wide from its current 15". I never really studied this wall enough and not sure if I should shrink down the wider cabinets on the left side (This upper is 36" wide). I could make it one single at 12" and a double door at 14" and then all upper doors on this wall would then be 12 or keep as is. Thoughts? Rmkitchen: The drawer fronts on the base cabinets on the side counters (i.e. the MW Drawer cabinet) and the one closest to the DO are false fronts. The base cabinet next to the wall between the LR/Kitchen is a regular 24" deep cabinet. I haven't done a whole lot of baking but looking forward to it in the new kitchen. So its hard for me to say where is better. That's why I am hear to listen to the experts ;). I do know I made homemade pasta with the kids the other week and the bigger the counter the better so here would be a perfect place using the side counters to roll out the fresh pasta.
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I meant something like those, although was thinking of something nearer 15 or 16" deep. The deeper it is, the more it blocks, so you just have to weigh which is most important. We also made ours only that 15 or 16" depth so we could set plates in front if we ever needed or wanted to. Since a seating space on the fridge end would be tucked in a bit behind the oven, I don't see that it should be a problem with the master suite entrance, even if there were more of you? Don't know why anyone might usually sit there while the master suite was in use? It'd still be preferable to me than having someone seated in my way in the kitchen...My priorities! :-)
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Me? My suggestions are more for the butler's pantry. One thing I had to have in the new kitchen is horizontal tray storage. This is my mother's design and it works so well! The cabinet maker makes an inner box for a wide cupboard, with slits a few inches apart for 3/8" plywood shelves. They can pull out if needed, but usually it isn't needed. This a a great way to store all those big flat things like the hot tray, serving trays, place mats, turkey platters, etc., etc. I also have vertical storage for smaller, round platters with a shelf above for the doilies. My company flatware is cheap junk that came in its own chests, so I didn't bother with this, but if you have stackable silver, putting fitted holders covered with silvercloth in drawers makes putting the flatware away easy. My good kitchen flatware doesn't stack or I would have done it for the everyday stuff, minus the silvercloth. As to the rest, it sounds like you already have good plans. We each work in different ways, and have different ideas of what needs to be close at hand. So long as you have good places for it all, that's what matters. I'm not sure that the mop in the pantry is a great idea, but I don't see anywhere better. Love the idea of the elevator as a vacuum closet!!!! I seem to have acquired a number of old vacuum cleaners, but the one that lives upstairs never gets used because the Rainbow is so much better. It gets carried up and down. Maybe a good compromise would be to have a handheld dirt devil or electric broom on every level, and just the one main vac? It's the attachments that eat up storage space! Idea: Instead of the beverage fridge in the BP, how about a wine fridge? After all, it's the bottles that are the butler's main purview anyway. That gives a little point of use storage, lets the man have his undercounter fridge, and makes up for a little lost wineroom storage. Re the lost wine storage, carrying multiple bottles of wine upstairs without shaking them every time you have dinner guests could get really old. Call the elevator an oversized dumbwaiter/vacuum closet. And it doesn't really matter about the size of the wine room. I've never seen a wine cellar with room for more than a couple more cases. Usually, the racks are full and there are a few cases on the floor. It's one of those Murphy's type principles. If there's room for a couple cases of today's find, today's find will find a way in and tomorrow's find will be a few bottles only or sit on the floor. True if you have room for 100 bottles, 2000 bottles, or 10000 bottles. If there isn't enough room for things he buys young and wants to lay down, there's always rent-a-vault. Re the stairs, they were pretty, but I think the straight stairs are also more what one expects to see in an older house shaped like yours, so I totally agree with you on the design age. Moreover, I think that gallery wall seen though the open side of the dining room is going to...
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Lavender Lass - Thanks for chiming in, at work no less. This cheap-o free and easy design software doesn't allow me to play with the hardware placement. The PLAN is to have long horizontal pulls across the uppers and lowers both. With small ones where they make sense. In fact, my top contender is the one shown with the green cabinets in the OP. And, yes, the doors will open the opposite directions at several key points than is shown in my renderings... To both LL and RoRO, and anyone else chiming in for that matter!, I had a big long post a while back about what to do with uppers with the backsplash window. That conversation convinced me to rethink the plan to bump up the cabinets or have glass cabinets on that wall to embrace the illusion of the backsplash window. I'm trying to make myself to not go backwards and do another circle on the issue. We'll see how that goes! We'll have somewhere between 17-20" between counter and upper cabinets and I'll go with a lower profile sink of some kind. I'm short so I don't want the uppers too high (plus we have short ceilings), but I totally get the point you are making. It's tricky to find the right answers for this BS window. For sure, whatever I do will have drawbacks and not please everyone... We put the BS window in when we were doing the outside for an energy audit program 2 years ago and had to guess at everything as we had no kitchen plans. Now I just have to make it work... Roho, thanks for the enthusiasm! I'm needing a little love right now! LOL Just to be clear, do you like the original layout or the revised options to include uppers on the range wall, minimize sink size, add more drawers, etc? Are you saying the counters stained or the sinks with the zero radius? I'm not sure I am understanding... For the fridge, I"m not sold on french doors- just the bottom freezer drawer. If I could find a 30-33" option that had the interior options we wanted in a CD, I'd go for it. Just haven't found it yet... We'll do some kind of paneling around the peninsula seating. Undecided about how that is going to end up looking, but it will look finished. We'll probably leave the wall part (bump out) drywall for now and consider various options down the road, including paneling or wallpaper or tile. We might look at something we can include into the hallway there. But, that's getting ahead of myself with finishes and materials and I have got to make myself stay on layout! LOL I'm glad to hear you liked your 12" pantries. Mine won't be in such a convenient place, but it's something! If we end up finding a place to put one of those neat ones tucked into drywall, it will probably end up much more narrow as the only place for it would be on the LR wall next to the peninsula and I don't want it interfering with the walkway/sense of feeling open. I should post some of my "during" pictures someday. It's been quite a journey so far! For pendants at the peninsula counter, all I want is something shiny to cast sparkley light. It won't work well for task lighting, so we'll have another row of can lights down the peninsula on the working side of the kitchen, I think. I just want 2-3 little mini-pendants in clear glass or crystal that won't really catch the eye much until they are on at night, acting more as accent lighting. The light I showed a pic of will be the drum pendant over the DR table area. I met with some lighting consultants this weekend, and also posted on GW's lighting forum. So, hopefully that is getting close to nailed down...
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Tricia21
Original Author
11 years ago
Sink side (we're getting a wide sink as well)
debrak_2008
11 years ago
GE spacesaver microwaves fit in a standard size cabinet.
stacylh
11 years ago
This pic shows a microwave placed above the sink that might work in your situation:
https://www.houzz.com/photos/devereux-residence-transitional-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~374909-Residence-modern-kitchen-new-york

This pic shows a microwave with a built-in look:
https://www.houzz.com/photos/modern-arts-and-crafts-kitchen-with-painted-shaker-style-cabinets-contemporary-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~57540-arts---crafts-kitchen-with-painted-shaker-style-cabinets-contemporary-kitchen-san-francisco

In your situation, I'd put the trash can under the sink.
Tricia21
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks Stacy - I think I'm going to just have to put it down below like i planned....I want to keep it hidden...
magdiego
11 years ago
I have my silverware drawer over my trash. I thought I wouldn't because the thought of it made me a little queasy, but there's actually a solid piece of wood between the upper drawer and the trash pullout, so I found it didn't bother me after all.
williamsem
11 years ago
I think the cabinet as planned, under the sink, or on the range run would all be good options. On the range run, you can put in whatever size you want, then use the extra inches to make the other cabinets or drawers a little bigger so the inches aren't wasted.
tanajo
11 years ago
Regarding trash, I managed to get three trash receptacles in our kitchen but I've found the one I use the most is the one by the range ( dish towel hanging on the handle). That is my main prep area so it's super handy! Next most used is under the prep sink by the coffee machine, grounds etc.... The "main" trash is the least used, not to say it doesn't become over flowing quickly
tanajo
11 years ago
Microwave, we only heat in ours so I purchased a very small one, only 12 inches deep since I wanted a built in look. Works great for us. It's mounted underneath a short cabinet and I'm very pleased with both the form and function. Ignore the construction photo, one of these days i will post before and afters!
CEFreeman
11 years ago
Tanjo,
What's the make of your microwave?
Despite the fact I specially made a base, microwave cabinet, I found I hate bending over.
I can easily retrofit that cabinet with drawers, but I hesitated because I hadn't seen a 12" microwave! I only heat coffee, too. :)
Thanks!
phiwwy
11 years ago
Good point about using trash during prep - I do as well, but i have it beside my DW. Do you have a disposal? If so then you could probably live with trash by the range/where you prep. I would still put a small trash can under your sink anyway, for clean up trash. But if you have no disposal, then put the trash by the sink.
cathy725
11 years ago
I wonder if you could put your dishwasher on the other side of the sink? I'm no designer, so the first issue might be the heat of the DW next to the fridge. But IF you could do this, you could put your trash on the end where it would be next to the sink and also accessible to the walkway for others getting to trash while cook is prepping??? I'm guessing DW next to fridge might be an issue, though.

Here's a trash pull-out under sink discussion:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1210095032430.html
alvmusick
11 years ago
Tricia -

I too have a galley kitchen and my layout is almost exactly as you have planned - DW then sink then trash pull-out (including compost bin) with silverware drawer above it (with a double-stack inside). I love it! I also put my other recycling - paper and glass/plastic under the sink so I like having all of the recycling and trash together in one zone. Next to the pull-out I have my range with OTR microwave which I also love although I don't think an OTR is what you are going for. Here are some pictures post-renovation.

I also agree that you will be happy regardless of where you put your pull-out because the galley is so efficient with everything so close. I just like to prep at the sink with the pull-out open for easy clean-up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to my galley kitchen reno.
rosie
11 years ago
Regarding microwave depth again, just to cover another option, you can very likely use the depth of the wall behind. That's what we did--used horizontal 2x4s and vertical 2x4s to frame a niche between vertical 2x4s in the wall to the size we needed. It was all the depth required to set in a standard size. It can end up looking like Tanajo's classy job. Our is just sitting on a shelf, but it's part of a taller niche with a coffee/tea counter below.
tanajo
11 years ago
GE monogram spacemaker II. mounted underneath the cabinet and then some "fancy" trim. Wala! Built in! This model is PLENTY big inside for us
Tricia21
Original Author
11 years ago
Wow...this is all so helpful! Ok, so yes, we do have a disposal and now that I'm thinking of the way I prep: i tend to prep next to the sink even though I have more countertop next to the range. The other times I use the trash is whenI'm washing dishes so I'm thinking I should keep it next to the sink. And now that I know more of you have a utensil drawer right under, I'm feeling good about it.

The dishwasher moving is interesting....but I'm thinking I'd rather break up the stainless and maybe it's better if my 2 and 4 year old didn't have good access to the trash as they tend to start playing with the pedal, making it talk, etc.

So microwave is interesting. I feel like I'd rather just put it in a cabinet so it's not customized at all for the micro. That way if we need to change it in a few years, I'm not worried about the size. Now, my only concern is will I hate bending down? My reasoning was that its higher than the oven racks So how bad can it be? Plus, we are not a tall family...but I'm curious about how people who have lower microwaves feel...

Brooklyn - love your kitchen. It's what we want in different colors! Can you show me a wide pic of the other side and share anything else you love/not love about the setup/sizing/etc? Is that caesarstone? We're getting raven caesarstone and it has the same texture....

Thanks!!!
alvmusick
11 years ago
Tricia -

In my earlier message at the bottom is a link to all the photos of my kitchen after the renovation - that post has all of the details and photos you might be interested in.

Yes, we have Caesarstone - Rosemary (a color now discontinued - sadly) and love it! The Raven you have chosen is beautiful.

I love my kitchen and have yet to find something I would change! I spent a ton of time measuring and trying to find a home for everything before deciding on a final layout (I found this part fun) - if you haven't done this already, I highly recommend it.

Also, I too have a pre-schooler (just one - age 3.5) - she has her own drawer - the first base cabinet on the right when you walk into the kitchen - at the bottom of a row of 4, 18" drawers in the picture below although it's slightly blocked - the drawer keeps her busy and involved in the kitchen - it's been a ton of fun! Just a thought as it might work for your two kids - being at the start of the galley, it keeps her from being under-foot and/or too close to the hot range.
cathy725
11 years ago
If you have small children you may not want the microwave in a base cabinet. I think you'd be better off with it above the counter. I use my microwave a lot and I know I wouldn't be happy with it in the base, but many people love it there. It really depends on function. Do some pretending every time you go to the microwave and bend down to base level and reach up to cabinet level and see which you prefer.

I knew I wanted to free up counter space and I also knew that over the range just is a bit too high, so upper cabinet height will be fine for me.
Tricia21
Original Author
11 years ago
Sorry Brooklyn - missed the link the first time. Your kitchen is a perfect use of space and exactly what we're aiming for. I was thinking of putting a 4 drawer base cabinet at the end as well and now I know it looks great. I actually am putting in 3 toe kick drawers in that run and told my 4 year old she gets to have one of the drawers. She already has a plan!

Cathy - I'm going to do some fake microwave swats and see how I feel!
alvmusick
11 years ago
Tricia -

Thanks for the kind words. I LOVE your toe-kick idea - what a brilliant way to use EVERY inch. Can't wait to see your final kitchen plan.
Holly321
11 years ago
My MW is next to fridge, over DW. I moved it away from over the range because it's "exhaust" feature was a total joke. I have 2 almost teens and I'm so very very happy that I moved the MW outside my stove triangle. Just my $0.02. Good luck with your decisions.

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