Southern Ontario Canada here. Cold winters and we can have hot humid summers. We pay $68 equal billing for gas year round. Our electric bill is generally around $150 (for two months) in the winter but can climb to $225-250 in the summer when the AC is on. We have a small 1 1/2 storey home built in the 30's, newer windows and a new furnace and AC this year. Our water bill is usually around $200 for 4 months. That includes water and sewage. Of course a dry summer can raise the water bill. I love my garden!

4500 sq ft house built in 1962
remodeled in 2003-4
new furnace, new windows, new water heater, new/additional insulation where we could, new plumbing fixtures, new appliances.

oil (furnace and water heater)$143 mo keep the house @ 65-68 in winter, heat turned off from 10pm-6am daily, no AC

water/sewer $90 mo

elec $143 mo

propane (range & BBQ) $10mo

cable $98 mo

landlines (2 phonelines,DSL)$140mo

garbage to dump every 6 weeks 4bags @ $2.50 bag

West WA state

Townhouse/Condo - built in 1986 (insulated to 1986 standard) all windows replaced in 2004.

1,400 square feet, 2 story with full basement

$128.00 Condo Fee (includes water, trash, snow removal & lawn care)

$45.00 electric average (thanks to a mild summer)

$70.00 gas average (thanks to a cold winter) gas furnace & hot water

I agree, $70.00 a month is a good gas bill in the winter, but in the middle of summer it should be $15.00.

All in all, not bad.

Oh, Columbus Ohio for me.

S.Calif,house built in 1952,have remodeled it,put in insulation,low energy appliances,double paned windows etc.

water,sewer,trash,92.00 per mo.
Gas& elec,budget plan so 132.00 per mo.
cable,phone computors(bundled pkg) 128.00

we don't really need a/c as we get an ocean breeze across the canyon all the time.We only turn the heat on in the winter mos,when i first get up in the morning to take the chill off the house.During the rest of the day if we get cold we use a space heater and just heat the room we are in.

OMG,i don't know how somw of you pay those bills!!

My GD lives in N.Ca and everything is electric,and she has no heat at all(broken)and her electric bill is very high.I keep telling her to call the PUC to check it out,as i think something is wrong.MY GS lives across the street from her,he has both central heat and air,and his bill isn't even 1/2 the cost of hers,and they are both thru the same co,Modesto irr.dist.
Kathi

southeastern Oklahoma,
water (rural) 25.00 a month We have a well we use for livestock
electric 100.00 a month (if we watch our usage) Summer is about 50.00 higher for AC months, wood burner for winter which saves a lot of $
no gas here, all electric
about 1800 sq. ft and it was built in the 80's

Wow, I pay a crazy amount in utilities! I pay $520/month (gas and electric on one bill). I'm on a "budget" so that means my utility company comes up with an average figure based on the prior years usage. The bill does include the itemization which is as follows:

My electric runs about $100/ month in the winter and about $200/per month in the summer (A/C). We both work full time and basically only the stuff that is plugged in runs during the day. At night we have lights on in one or two rooms of our 2400 square foot ranch home. We do run outside lights from around 5 PM to 11:30 PM (I should adjust that in the summer, but I don't).

My gas bill is the real killer. In the summer it is about $50/month. In the winter is can be as much as $800. We do keep it at 70 from about 5 pm to 11:30, but after that it goes down to 65. It is at 65 M-F during the day. We just got a new supposedly energy efficient boiler with a sensor that tells the boiler the temp outside. This is supposed stop the boiler from heating the water as high when it is warmer outside. The bills dropped a little.

Water is usually $60 for three months. I will say that my bill shot up to around $150 for that same period and I discovered that one of our seldom used toilets was running from time to time. After we fixed that it dropped back down.

Good news, trash pick-up is free! Not really, but it is included in property tax. I guess sewer is too, as I don't think it is part of the water bill.

I'm in MN. Our house is about 2500 square feet - built in 1972. Lots and lots of floor to ceiling windows - we have only three regular casement windows in the house.

We have well and septic so no water or sewer bill.

Gas and electric are combined on one bill that runs between $300-$400 a month in the dead of winter and around $90 in the summer. We have natural gas heat, water heater and cooktop. We only use our air conditioning occasionally in the summer.

Garbage is about $38/month

What's not included above is cable bill which includes TV, phone and internet - that's about $120/mo. Cell phones are another thing - that's about $50-$60 - not as bad as it could be since most of DH's cellphone expense is reimbursed by company.

I forgot to add that I'm outside on New York City. I pay about $120/month for TV phone and internet.

2200-sq-ft Southern Ontario R2000 house built in 1986 hydro consumption is 180 KwH/month ($50, including taxes and fees) when AC is not used. Consumtion almost doubles to 300 Kwh during July and August running 30-year-old 1.5 ton KeepRite central air conditioning. Compressor runs 50% of the time (12 hours out of 24) on 35C days. Thermostat is set for 20C, which the AC has no difficulty maintaining. Similar size neigbouring non-R-2000 houses consume 1,200+ KwH/month during hot months. Natural gas usage is $20/month during heating season (thermostat is set for 18C.) Cell phone is $15/month (pre-pay/no data), Internet is $33/month (unlimited bandwidth), TV is with roof antenna and water/sewer are $20/month.

vverryshyguy, I'm wondering how you can have a hydro bill of $50/month in a 2200 sq. ft home, including the fees, transportation, debt reduction, etc etc that are tacked on to it.

I too am in SW Ontario and live in a 3-bdrm apt. Heat is included in the rent, but we pay hydro. I don't run any heavy appliances except on the weekend (oven), when rates are lower. We don't have a/c but use ceiling fans and floor fans, in this 30C heat. Any other time they're not needed, because we have windows on all 4 sides with lots of cross-flow ventilation. Lights are seldom used for the same reason, our apt is nice and bright. We have a small table lamp set to come on at nite in the livingroom, and it has LED bulb as do our other lights.

Our last bill was the highest yet, at $94 for 2 months. That wasn't just our personal usage, but the total cost of the bill. I was livid. So please tell me how you're able to have a large home at $50/month. I know several people who live in apts and their hydro is in the hundreds, so ours isn't anything to get mad over, but I was, nevertheless.

2816sq' built in 1984, 22' high ceilings in the upstairs 1500sq'

Garbage=DH takes to construction dumpster @ work free

Water & Sewer in Summer=$75 Winter=$55

Electric & Nat Gas in Summer=$80 Winter= $110-$250

Note: All the 38 windows are commercial/built in place, thermo pane/thermo break. 4 skylights, 3 sliding glass doors, orig furnace

When this thread was started in Jan. 2010, our natural gas/electricity for a 1,372 sq. ft. home built in 2005 (moved into 2006), the total 2009 was $1,927.63, and with several increases since then, our cost in 2014 was $2,213.79. Another big hike due this year, as well.

It's a double-wall R-2000 (walls are 18" thick). It took two years to build and passed air tightness certification on the first try. It has larger, and more windows facing south and minimal smaller ones on the north side. All of the windows have interior window quilts that keep heat in during the winter, and heat out during the summer. I run the AC only overnight, and on weekends, closing-up the window quilts during the day. I replaced the freon in the compressor with a much less viscous (it's like water) aftermarket automotive replacement I found from a distributor in Quebec. The compressor current draw decreased after I installed it and the vent output temp dropped 10F, so it's more efficient than it was. The owner of the business I bought it from said he put it in a through-the-wall AC and saw decreased power consumption and colder air output as well. This refrigerant is not intended, or recommended for house AC units, but so far it hasn't blown-up! (these old KeepRites have a reputation for being indestructable). The maximum indoor temperature increase on a sunny hot day is 3C. I have a 60-gallon water heater that is switched off, except on weekends to do laundry and run the dishwasher. It retains enough heat for the rest of the week for showers etc. I have a SuperSaver shower head from an RV. Lighting is all LED. Cooking is all done with a microwave, toaster and an election kettle. Laundry is done with a sudsaver Maytag washer. One water fill does three loads. Clothes drying is done with an indoor clothes line in the basement. I use the heat from the warm wastewater in the winter. I use passive solar heating most days and a woodstove for cold, overcast ones (I get firewood for free). I use the heat from the car engine block as it cools down in the attached garage, which is also R-2000. My TOTAL Hydro bills were less than $20/month when I first moved in. I'm actually using fewer kilowatts now, but there's more additional fees and taxes now, in addition to the rate increases. I'm able to manage my Time Of Use to keep less than 15% at the peak rate. There's probably something else I'm forgetting, but these are the biggies, I think.

2300 sq ft plus 800 sq ft basement and 2000 sq ft shop built in 1994.

We have a well and septic so no costs there.

We share a dumpster with neighbors and pay 25 a month.

Electric runs from just under 100 up to a little over 200 depending on time of year with an average around 140.

Natural gas is a negligible 15-20 a month except during cold times when the furnace comes on and then it is anywhere from 40-80 a month.

We just finished a 1400 sq ft addition earlier this year and since then electric is averaging about 250 a month but we also have the pool and hot tub running which increases electric usage.

......just to show, it can be done. Minimizing Peak Time Of Use is key to lowering Hydro bills. The difference between Peak and Off-peak is like getting your electricity for half price. With extreme discipline (and no AC) some individuals are able to get off the grid altogether. Honda has a demonstration house in California (with a family living in it) that produces more electricity than it consumes in a year. I read many years ago that if all housing in Ontario was retrofitted to the R-2000 standard, there would be no need for nuclear power plants. I expect this is still true today, given increased HVAC, lighting and appliance efficiency and solar and other renewables that weren't in use thirty years ago.

Verryshyguy, we've got 1 frig, and a chest freezer that run constantly. 2 computers that are on. The power bar for the tv and computer is turned off when not in use.

Lunch can be something re-heated quickly in the microwave or on 1 burner. Dinner is on the stove top, no oven use, no dryer (use the clothesline exclusively). Do dishwasher. No fans are running yet (they will be later).

I save the weekends only for oven use.

I have no idea why I pay more than you do.

2900 sq ft two story 3 beds 2.5 baths on 1.5 hillside acres with drip irrigation and pool, built in 1989.

Propane -$200 mo average (hard to tell because when they fill the tank we pay $600) varies on usage.

Water (on agricultural district, not city) $140 monthly

Electric (We have solar so it's less than $115 monthly) Not counting the payment for solar which will disappear in 8 years.

I was shocked when I saw sweet Patti's name in the replies! Then realized once again this is a very old thread resurrected from the archives.

How I do miss her!

Southern Ontario R-2000

built in 1984, finished in 1986

2 storey 2250 sq ft

$27/month hydro usage ($50 inc. taxes & fees)

$20/month water & sewer

As with vehicle fuel economy, resu

1988 1700 Sf Colonial with 3 bedrooms/2.5 ba + 850 sf basement. Gas 25-30 max in the summer, $140 at max in winter. Electric $50ish max in the winter and $140 max in the summer. So $200.00 max or less for gas and electric. For trash, we pay 60.00 every 3 months. We have a well and septic tank so no cost there.

I check our history for comparisons often and it doesn't seem like our utilities have changed too much. We are more careful when it's really hot out. We typically shut all the doors and vents upstairs except for our bedroom; we run the a/c cold at night (60), turn it off in the morning and the house stays cool (below 70) all day. I know it sounds strange but it's off during peak times and while everyone else either pays a higher premium to keep cool or suffer through it, we're very comfortable.

I am astonished at how widely the prices of electricity vary around the country (and Canada!). Shyguys' monthly bills make me envious! I think I could unplug and turn off every appliance in this house and I'd still have at least a $50/mo bill. Those of you with <$200/mo bills in the summer also make me jealous, haha. My electric in the summer averages ~$800/mo for the hottest 3 months. That is for just under 5,000 ft2, 3 a/c units, pool. I keep the temp at 75 in the summer and turn it off at night around 10. Then we have a mini split in the bedroom that just cools that area overnight. With our dry atmosphere, 75* feels about perfect to me. In the winter, electric averages about $115/mo.

Gas summer and winter averages right around $100/mo. Gas for the radiant heat the house in the winter and more gas to heat the pool in the summer. For this, I feel absolutely lucky. Those of you who have to pay for oil or propane have my sympathies!

No water or sewer bill; on well & septic. About $20/mo for trash service - 2 large trash bins and 1 large recycle bin.

Edited to add: I am in the southwest US.

I had a much higher electric bill in my previous home, it was all electric and there were no trees shading the house.

Here is a site that helped my understand more about electricity, so I understood where higher use was happening and how to do something about it:

Electricity

AJ- you should build some solar heaters for your pool. That's what we have and they work great. We have them plumbed into our pump and when the pump is on, it circulates through the heater.

We actually had to shut the heaters off a few times this summer because our pool was 94 degrees!!

......Turning off the electric water heater after the water is heated reduced my monthly bill by $30. I discovered this by accident when a lightening strike tripped the breaker for my heater and it was off for a week before the water was no longer hot. My bill was much less that month, so I leave it off all she time now after heating the 60 gallon tank-full. I purchased the most efficient refrigerator on the market. It uses half as much electricity as the one it replaced. I use a tablet as my primary computer with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It uses only $1.38 in electricity IN AN ENTIRE A YEAR vs 28 Kwh my laptop uses in a single month! A bonus is the screen is much higher resolution and it takes up much less room on the kitchen table. I never use the kitchen stove or oven. I live by myself, so it's probably not realistic to expect a family to get by on 200 KWh a month. I'm retired and sleep a lot, which saves money on more than just utility bills. I just wish it could lower the property taxes! Energy efficiency and saving money are sort of a hobby for me, I think. I hypermile my 20-year-old Civic and have no difficulty getting 4.8 L/100km using a ScanGuage II. My best has been 4.1! I'm considering getting roof solar panels. I'm hoping Honda or Tesla will offer a package deal with their smaller (and more affordable) electric cars in a couple of years. I'm convinced the weather will become even more extreme in the near future and I don't want to be solely dependent on the power grid for electricity. My 30-year-old house windows are in need of replacement and I'm going with triple-pane, hurricane rated specification. Otherwise, I doubt I can reduce my utility bills much more than I already have. The new variable speed DC furnace motors use 1/10th power of the older technology motors, but they cost $600! A new central air conditioner would use half the electricity my 30-year-old KeepRite uses, but my hydro bill only goes up $20 during the hottest months of the summer, so I'll probably keep the ol' KeepRite until it dies. I know people who have 40-year-old KeepRites and haven't had a single problem with them, so it could out-last me! The bottom line is my house is in "idle" most of the time. The refrigerator, and air exchanger are the only things consuming power during the day. I unplug all electronics when not in use. The air conditioning and water heater are the biggest energy hogs, but both are used minimally. I do Arizona cooling when the nights are cooler and close-up during the day. Weekends are my biggest consumption days with laundry, vacuuming and water heating, but this is also when the hydro rates are lowest. As I write this on the tablet with a 7.5W Cree LED for light, the outdoor humidex is heading to 39C. The temperature in the ground floor kitchen is a comfy 67.3F @ 55% humidity, after running the AC compressor for 5 hours overnight. At that temperature, and humidity level, no fan is needed. The temperature won't get to 70F by this evening, regardless how hot it gets outside. I just went out to get the mail. Every one of my neighbour's air conditioning units was running at full-tilt. They also all have their curtains and blinds open with the mid-day sun blazing in. Three have unshaded south-facing skylights, something that should be prohibited by building code, in my opinion.

Atomic, you might be a good candidate for solar panels! LOL omg, 800 a month seems crazy high but I guess it's all relative to each families life style.

Our utilities aren't too bad. Our home is small and brick. About 1600 sq, ft with a full basement. we have a new furnace and we also use a whole house fan. We live north of Atlanta. So our summers are hot. Water is around $45. Gas and electricty are about $175 summer for a/c and heat in the winter. We keep our house dark in the summer. Close those blinds and drapes people. We use a land line for phone and it isn't too bad. We also have a cell with no monthly charges.

Electricity is crazy expensive where I am (Cape Cod, second highest in the country, next to Hawaii). And we have that hideous Pilgrim Nuclear Plant blighting up otherwise beautiful Sandy Neck Beach, yet the Cape gets NO benefit from Pilgrim, only the blight, risk, and still-very-high bills. We also have more and more of those wind fan thingies going up, but again, seemingly no benefit for us and certainly not lowering the cost of electricity.

I had a new furnace installed in the spring of 2014, and it has halved my gas heat bill! That has been a very nice surprise. My house has two wings. The one I don't use myself is on slab, so all systems (heat, AC) have to be electric. Other wing is forced air and natural gas for heat/hot water. I had a solar company come over and look at my roof, which seemed to me a perfect candidate for solar panels: faces south and east, large area..but they said some trees made it not viable for solar panels. I'll revisit solar in the future, though.

Wish they'd raze Pilgrim, though. Thing is an eyesore.

Built in 2005

4117 sf

2 story, open to upstairs. One air conditionar/ duel zone

August electric was $150

gas was $15

Water & garbage is billed together and it was $85

I'm in the California central valley.

I honestly don't know how people wrack up such high energy bills. Like the $1000+ mentioned above. Unless they keep there homes at 60 degrees in the summer and 80 in the winter.

.....it's obvious from the posts in this site that as with new vehicle window fuel consumption stickers, "results will vary." I an achieve 4.0 L/100KM with my sister's eight-year-old Prius, yet when she drives it (more aggressively) it increases to the mid-5's.

I have a southern Ontario friend with a 1300-sq-foot town house with north-south exposure and attached units on the east and west. Heating and air-conditioning costs are quadruple what I pay for a 2225-sq-ft detached R2000. I did an infrared scan if the exterior and attached single car garage walls. There were large areas with little or no insulation. The wall surface temps varied as much as 10C! The south-facing patio door and bay window feel like standing in front of a fireplace on a hot day, even with the blinds and non-insulating drapes closed. The 10-year-old 1.5-ton central AC runs continually in hot weather. In the winter he says he can feel a draft coming from the exterior outlets on windy days. He sets the thermostat higher on cold days to offset the discomfort from the air leakage. Large icicles form on the north-facing eaves during the winter.....an obvious indication of significant heat loss. The water supply line for an upstairs toilet that backs onto a north wall freezes in extreme cold weather. I have no doubt adding insulation, applying reflective window film and installing insulating drapery will reduce both the heating and cooling costs dramatically. My parents had a single floor bungalow townhouse with a single skylight on a sloped west-facing roof. their central AC real non-stop on hot sunny days and was never able to lower the temp to 74F. After installing reflective window film on the skylight and the east and west windows, their summer hydro bills were reduced by 50%.

They are building new 6,000-sq-ft homes in my neighbourhood with large expanses of south-facing windows. 70% of the north walls are comprised of widow glass on the first and second floors. Even with proper wall insulation, the solar gain from the large windows is so significant with these monsters, a single central AC compressor unit isn't enough to offset it. Heat loss in colder weather will also be significant. Purchasers I've spoken with are shocked by their $1,500 summer hydro bills. Perhaps energy use stickers should be required on new houses, just as they are on vehicles.

Hydro rates in Ontario are among the highest in North America. All of our coal-fired generation plants have been decommissioned due to environmental concerns. The renewable energy initiatives that are intended to replace the lost generation capacity are extremely expensive by comparison. We are going down the same path as Germany in this regard. A cousin of mine who lives there is currently paying 47-cents/kWh ($CND). Our highest TOU rate recently increased to 16.1-cents/kWh....with more increases planned. Those who complain about their current hydro bills have not idea what's coming. This rate would actually not be too bad, if it was the actual rate. My July hydro consumption was 196kWh for a cost of $27.75. After delivery, regulatory, debt retirement, Provincial and Federal taxes, the actual bill came to $51.49 (we have to pay for our "free" healthcare!) This works out to an actual 'real' rate of 26.3-cents/kWh.....and this is with with 80% Off-Peak @8.0-cents/kWh! My bill could easily be close to $100 without paying close attention to TOU. As happens with gasoline prices, I believe if they get high enough, people will adjust their consumption by doing whatever it takes. In Germany, for example, gasoline costs 10x's what we are paying now in Canada (the price here dropped another 18-cents/gallon last night). The cars in Germany are much more fuel efficient than those we have in North America. Many models simply aren't available here. Their buildings are also designed with energy efficiency as a priority. Solar panels and wind turbines are everywhere you look. You don't see icicles dangling from their houses, anywhere. In contrast, I was in Buffalo, New York, during the cold snap last winter and saw icicles formed on many houses, including every house in one brand new subdivision! The shopping mall parking lots were also full of large newer SUVs, and pickup trucks. New car dealer lots also had mostly large SUVs and trucks.

Kansas....1638 SF....built in 2013. Our little city owns the utilities, so ours is a combined bill...water, sewer, trash, electricity, and gas...usually even in the hottest months of summer and coldest months of winter, has never been over $185 total, usually about $100...and I keep it at a constant 74-75 degrees. I use Magic Jack for my house phone..$19.95 for the entire year...unlimited use to anywhere! And am on my daughter's cell phone, which costs only $10 a month for my additional phone...unlimited calling and texting. TV and Internet is the most costly...$104 a month....but that is my enjoyment!

Our home was built in 2003.

2000 sq ft.

We're on a well, so no water bill.

Trash pick up $22.50 a month

Total electric. $250 last month. (August) and we keep the thermostat set about 74F.

Short of personally being on the construction site every day, one can't know what is (or isn't) behind the walls of a house, once they are closed-in. I hired a reputable medium size (and price) company to build my house and obtained permission to visit the site each evening after the workers had finished for the day. The builder provided me with air sealing tape in case I found any small tears or perforations in the air vapour barrier. I found several each evening I inspected the day's work. I also spotted some framing issues, which the builder corrected. A blower air leakage test was conducted when the envelope was completed, and it passed on the first try (which is not usual). It may not have passed without my extra taping efforts. The house is 2225-square-feet on two floors and is located in Southern Ontario. July was warmer than average and the hydro consumption was $27 ($50 with all the taxes and fees). Natural gas consumption during heating months never exceeds $20. The house has a 60-gallon electric water heater which is only switched on weekends, during off-peak rate. It provides enough hot water for an entire week for one person (laundry machine and dishwasher are only run on weekends). Shower head is a low-flow RV model. Central AC is a 30-year-old 1.5-ton KeepRite that has been topped-up with automotive refrigerant (much thinner than the original factory freon) so I have no idea what the SEER is. It only runs a overnight a few times each summer when the outdoor temp and humidity don't allow for Arizona cooling. The temp gain on a hot day never exceeds 2F. There are 6-layer thermal Roman shades on all of the windows.
LED lights, a LED TV, a tablet computer, Internet router, DVD player, sump pump, air exchanger, and a high-efficiency refrigerator/freezer are really the only other things in the house that consume power.

A refrigerator in a hot garage will use much more electricity in the summer than one indoors. Similarly, an old refrigerator in the basement can use several times the energy of a new energy-efficient model.

It would probably be a good idea to have an air test and a thermal scan energy audit to determine why any utility bill is excessive. I had a friend who had huge hydro bills, year-round that were traced to a leaking underground electric cable that ran to a detached garage/workshop. Window solar gain in the summer and heat loss in the winter can also contribute to a big difference in utility bills. New window energy efficiency specifications vary widely. I only refer to government tests of new windows for this information.

You can also isolate power consumption yourself by turning off all the electrical panel circuit breakers, and switching them back on, one at a time, while observing the hydro meter.

shyguy, I think you're being foolish turning off your water heater. Legionnella bacteria, a particular problem in electric water heaters anyway because of the bottom cold zone, are present in water and will survive at temperatures that don't exceed 50 deg C, and will multiply very quickly at temperatures lower than mid-40s C. Exposure is usually fatal. Don't play games with hot water heater settings for a few pennies, what you do could put you at real risk.

I disagree with a few of your comments,

"Hydro (this means electricity) rates in Ontario are among the highest in North America....Our highest TOU rate recently increased to 16.1-cents/kWh".

Where I live, we have tiered pricing - the more you use, the more you pay per unit. If in my house I did no more than had one light bulb burning, I would pay at about 16.5 US cents per kWh. That equates to a bit over 21 Canadian cents. In each billing period, some of my electricity is over 30 US cents. By comparison, your 16.1 Canadian cents at your TOP rate converts to less than 12 US cents, a rate lower than my LOWEST rate. It's true that I'm in a high rate area, and some parts of the US are considerably lower, but I think where you are sounds pretty solidly in the low-middle, not at the high end.

" In Germany, for example, gasoline costs 10x's what we are paying now in Canada"

I just looked, gas in Germany is about 1.40 Euros per liter. That's about $1.50 US per liter. A quick look suggests regular gas in Canada is about $1 Canadian per liter, or about 75 US cents. That's 2 x, not 10 x. The same petroleum companies here are also there, the price difference is mostly just tax differences.

"The cars in Germany are much more fuel efficient than those we have in North America."

I loved this comment. I own two German cars now and have owned a total of 7 German cars, never less than one at any time, since the early 80s. Am I missing something?

I've been to Germany a few times in the last 4 years. Have you? Not more now than as I remember from past years, but they've always loved their large sedans, wagons, and SUVs, even with the price of gas where it is.

I must say I'm surprised to read the comments from shyguy.

I've heard of hypermiling for cars but for houses?!?

What exactly is the point?

If you really want to live like you are camping in your RV year round just so you can reduce the utilities on your 2000+ sq ft residence for ONE person to under 100$ a month, why not actually camp in an RV year round?

What is the point in having such a massive place for a single person?

Snidley,

.....I agree that stagnant lukewarm water can be a breeding ground for all kinds of nasty bacteria. I overheat the water as high as the thermostat will allow (155F at the closest tap). I think this temp kills any bacteria that might be present in the supply water and/or the water tank. There are heating elements at both the top and bottom of the tank so I expect the temp at the bottom is similar to the outlet temp at the top, immediately after heating. I've added double tank insulating jackets and a "J" heat trap at the outlet to minimize heat loss between heating cycles. The tap temp never gets below 40C before reheating, but obviously it will be less at the bottom where the cold water inlet dilutes the heated water as it is drawn from the top. There's a water pumping station less than a kilometre from my houses where additional chlorine is injected into the large underground storage tank. The water from the cold water taps in the house have an obvious smell of bleach, but this isn't noticeable when running hot water. It's possible heating the water eliminates it. I've heard of a cloudy iron colour forming in the hot water if the thermostat is set less than 40C. I had this occur once when I turned off the water heater for two weeks while on vacation. The thermostat was set for 4OC for heating at that time. The heated water is constantly being replaced by over-chlorinated (in my opinion) cold water, which hopefully keeps any bacteria at bay.

The cost saving from cycling the heater is a bit more than pennies. Between the TOU savings (50% of Peak) and less power consumed, the first month I did this, my hydro bill decreased by $25 (almost half). I never use water from the water heater for cooking or even washing produce, and I would definitely never drink it. Properly treated municipal water supplies should have no bacteria present. I've toured the water and sewage treatment plants and water quality is tested several times each hour. Interestingly, bottled water requires no such testing. So far so good, but it would probably be a good idea to get one of those water safety testers for camping and check my hot water toward the end of the week, just to be sure. At some point, I will be replacing the electric heater with a natural gas model. The payback on energy cost is not enough with my consumption to justify the replacement cost unless the electric heater has to be replaced. I know people with families who only spend $20/month to heat water with their gas water heater. Some new gas water heaters are WiFi enabled so you can control energy usage with your iPhone.

I've visited Germany three times. My memory could be faulty, but I recall paying CND$9.00/litre when I got my credit card statement three years ago for gasoline (diesel was much less at the time). I was surprised how expensive it was when the currency exchange at the time and bank fees were added! I had the use of three different cars. The first was a Fiat Grande Punto. It had a 1.0 lite engine and was severely underpowered, especially on the Autobahn.....but it got in the low 3's fuel economy @ 80km/h (which it struggled to get to). The second car was a Volkswagen Plus BlueMotion diesel. It had no difficulty going 220km/h on the Autobahn with four people and luggage. More amazing was that it did so while getting 4.8L/100Km! The owner said it was been problem free, but he has to pay CND$900 every year for "maintenance". I would consider that a major repair on my 20-year old Civic! That really kills any cost savings from the excellent fuel economy. I also drove a 20-year-old Golf. It was a city car, but cost much more for fuel than the diesel Golf. The fuel economy was terrible @120km/h on the Autobahn. It also requires the annual "maintenance".

Texas,

....maybe it should be called "hyperhousling"?

In many ways, I agree it's similar to hypermiling with a vehicle. I installed a ScanGuage II on my 20-year-old Civic and regularly get 4.8 K/100km during warmer months. Without AC, on a flat road and no wind I've used as little as 4.3K/100km. The fuel efficiency is actually increasing as it gets older and loses weight due to severe rusting of the rear wheel wells!

Unlike hypermiling, having low utility bills while living in an R2000 home doesn't require any special techniques or mean freezing in the dark. There is no air leakage so they are draft-free. Fresh, filtered air is constantly supplied by the air to air heat exchanger, so the indoor air quality is consistently good. Furniture dusting is minimal. The thermostat can be set lower in the winter and the temperature completely comfortable due to the absence of drafts.

I suppose conserving energy (including my own!) is a bit of a hobby with me, and I probably take it a bit to the extreme. I think I derive satisfaction seeing how low I can get the fuel consumption with vehicles I drive, and the utility bills for my house. The money saved is also no doubt an incentive. I've always maintained everyone should spend as little as possible for goods and services, even if you can afford to pay more. Simply paying what is asked, without comparative shopping, discourages competition and contributes to inflation, in my opinion. Inflation ends up hurting those with less the most. There's only so much money in the economy. The more efficiently and effectively it is spent, the better the standard of living will be for everyone. The environment benefits as well when wasteful spending is reduced. Natural resources need to be conserved, even if cost is not a consideration for some individuals.

I actually prefer a low-flow "RV" shower head to a regular higher-flow one. There's more force to the spray so I believe it rinses more effectively. I have it on a shower hose and use it to clean things, including air filters, in the bathtub. It's a bit like a pressure washer in the way it blasts away dirt!

I agree 2,2000 sq.ft. is much more than any one person needs to live in. It was the smallest house that was allowed in the subdivision when I built it in 1984. At least the roof area will be useful when I get solar panels. The large expanse of drywall a larger house affords serves as cooling storage in the summer, and a way to bank passive solar from the day by circulating indoor air at night. My R-2000 is a double wall model, so the non-structural interior drywall 'floats' with minimal thermal bridging, making it ideal for storing nighttime coolness in the summer, or daytime solar gain in the winter. This minimizes the use air conditioning, or the 38,000 BTU furnace. It also facilitates taking advantage of lower TOU hydro rates.

With more insulation and fewer air leaks, as is the case with energy efficient windows energy efficient housing is much quieter, being extremely effective at blocking outdoor noise. (If you like your home theatre loud, you can also enjoy it without bothering the neighbours). The importance of less outside noise is difficult to appreciate until you experience it. For one thing, with the better quality indoor air and quiet, sleep is more restorative.

Both with houses and vehicles, I actually prefer those that are more energy efficient. Energy efficient vehicles tend to be lighter, in my experience more responsive, have better visibility as to where the front and back of them end, and are much easier to park. Some even have more headroom and luggage capacity than vehicles that are much larger on the exterior.

Eventually, energy cost and government regulation will mean more energy efficient building codes, just as has occurred with vehicle fuel efficiency. Climate change and more frequent extreme weather will also require more stringent structural wind resistance standards. If government regulation doesn't mandate better building codes, the insurance industry will. Like gasoline prices, all energy costs will only increase in the future. It's in the best interest of anyone purchasing a new home, or owning an existing one, to reduce their energy and water consumption as much as possible, now.

"shyguy, I think you're being foolish turning off your water heater. Legionnella bacteria, a particular problem in electric water heaters anyway because of the bottom cold zone, are present in water and will survive at temperatures that don't exceed 50 deg C, and will multiply very quickly at temperatures lower than mid-40s C. Exposure is usually fatal. Don't play games with hot water heater settings for a few pennies, what you do could put you at real risk."

Agree with this. Not only is there a very real health risk, but anerobic bacteria can set up housekeeping and some produce horrible pervasive sulfur smells, and those bacteria are persistent once they've set up a home.

To shut down a water heater to save a mere $30/month is in my opinion a risk not worth taking.

I understand how you see conservation as a challenge, and that's ok. I just think some of your comments suggest you are misinformed.

I lived in Europe for several years and have driven all over, then and since on regular visits. It varies by country and of course by exchange rates at the time, but the highest I can ever remember for regular gas is something just under $10 US per gallon. It's been more in the $7-8 range over the years. Never anything approaching $9 Canadian a liter. This doesn't matter, it's an aside from your discussion of utility usage, but I wanted to clarify the point.

"Like gasoline prices, all energy costs will only increase in the future."

Gasoline prices today are at a what, 20 year low? The price goes up and down with the market, I personally think gas prices will stay low as more electric cars come on the market and gas demand slackens. Electricity from solar power will decrease in cost in the coming years as equipment costs decline and technology advances produce more efficient operation.

" I expect the temp at the bottom is similar to the outlet temp at the top"

That's not a good assumption. Electric heaters have a bulge on the side where the heating elements are. You can see on yours and others that most bottom elements can be 12-24 inches above the bottom. Water at the bottom of an electric heater is cold, no other way to describe it. The article linked below found that legionella was present in 40 % of electric water heaters tested. It's not a problem with gas heaters because the burner is at the bottom.

Here's a Canadian article on the subject

Good luck with your games, I'm sure you get enjoyment from them. And PS - a newer car would get much better mileage, and would be safer, than an older one.

Flashback gives the U.S. price for a gallon of gas in 1965 @ $0.31.

According to U.S. Inflation Calculator, that's $2.35 in today's purchasing power.

In 1988, it was $1.08, adjusted to today's dollars, that's $2.18.

1999 gas was $1.17, which is only $1.68 today.

AAA gives the average price for a gallon of regular today as $2.44, which puts us a little higher than 1965, but not grossly so.

.....it seems I should replace my 30-year-old electic eater heater with a natural gas model, sooner rather than later. Thanks for the info everyone! After reading the multiple comments, I researched the health risks of electric water heaters, even when left switched on 24/7, and it's kinda scary.

I have to disagree about newer cars getting better fuel economy. I recently had the use of a 2015 Civic CVT and a 2016 HRV CVT (based on the Fit, but has the Civic engine). Both are much larger and heavier than my '96 Civic, by a substantial amount. I put my ScanGuage in each and was able to get similar highway fuel economy with the Civic, but it was no contest with city driving. The 1987 Honda CRX HF got an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated 57 mpg (US gallon) in highway driving. Today, the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid Civic you can buy gets an EPA-estimated 34 mpg on the highway. Even today's Honda Civic Hybrid can't match it, achieving EPA-estimated highway mileage of just 45 mpg. The Toyota Prius, today's fuel mileage champ, gets 46 mpg on the highway. The testing methodology has changed since then, but if the old CRX HF were tested using today's rules, its highway fuel economy would drop to 51 mpg, according to the EPA's calculations. That's still much better than any mass-market car sold today, including hybrid cars. I do agree however today's vehicles are much safer (which adds much of the weight that kills fuel economy).

As for gas prices, we've passed Peak Oil. A slowing global economy, increasing energy efficiency and alternative sources will all reduce demand and slow oil price spikes, however the remaining oil deposits will become increasingly expensive to extract. Oil companies are pushing for hydrogen fuel cells, which they want to sell the hydrogen for, but hydrogen is dead in the water for several valid reasons, including lack of infrastructure, production/distribution inefficiency and cost of both the fuel cells and the hydrogen to power them. I have no doubt my next vehicle will be battery-electric, in two to three years. The Teska Model III, a redesigned Nissan Leaf, the recently announced Honda BEV, the Chevrolet Bolt and entries from Apple and Google will all be available contenders then, in my opinion.

I just moved to Florida at the end of July and just got our first months bills. These are for approx a month and a half since we came in during the middle of the billing cycles.

I live on the Central Gulf coast. House is 2 years old and 4200 sqft

Electric was $173.00

Water with irrigation and the fact I rewashed everything we own before putting it away because it smelled funny after movers delivered was $93.00

Internet, phone, TV are bundled and my internet is is 75mb and I have all the channels paid included and that bill is $156 a month

I just moved here from Ma and there our house was 8 years old 2200sqft. Electric ran around $350 a month before we put solar panels on. Once we put the solar panels up our monthly bill dropped to $3-$12 a month and some months the electric company owed us a credit. I will be looking into putting them on this house. We leased the panels and that cost was $60 a month so add that to the 3-12 and I still made out cheaper than before.

We also put in an outdoor pellet stove vs our old oil heater. Oil was costing us $350 or so a month for 100 gallons and our hot water was on propane which ran around $40 a month. Once we put in the outdoor pellet stove our heating bill dropped to about $212 a month and that included the hot water. We were able to get rid of the propane hot water heater with the new stove.

Apriele:

That's an impressive decrease in your electric bill using the solar panels. I had no idea the savings could be so much. I assume location and the number of panels are the primary considerations in determining the payback of a solar installation. I've been told by solar panel installers that a typical house roof in Southern Ontario doesn't afford the surface area for sufficient panels to go off-grid because we receive a fraction of the solar energy locations closer to the equator do. Having said that, it's been plenty hot and sunny here for over a week now. The combination of high humidity has resulted in extreme heat warnings most days. I run my AC overnight and get the indoor temp down to 65F (I like it cool). I switch it off from 7a to 7p to take advantage of off-peak TOU. Today, the indoor temp gain during twelve daytime hours was 3.6F (normally it's less than 2F during hot weather) so I'm guessing this is similar to normal Florida conditions! If it was this hot all summer, there's no way monthly electric consumption will be the $27 I used last month. With this unusual heat, I expect it will be closer to $40 this month. This time of year the average overnight temp is low enough that a small exhaust fan in an upstairs window and one open window in the basement are enough cool-down the interior sufficiently that with closing-up during the day, no AC is needed. This hasn't been possible the past week with overnight humidexes of 30C+

Utility bills will obviously vary with geographic location. However, similar size houses in the same area should have similar energy consumption, all else being equal. Insulating window coverings that are closed during the day will reduce solar gain significantly. Reflective window tint is also quite effective in reducing solar gain. I see many neighbour's with their drapes and blinds wide-open during extremely hot weather and some have $300+ monthly electric bills.

Icicles dangling from the eavestroughs are an indication of heat loss during heating season. The Ministry of the Environment did an audit of building rooftops here with an infrared scanner suspended from a helicopter a few years ago. The study found most of the houses surveyed had inadequate levels of attic insulation. I saw the image of my house and the fireplace chimney was lit-up, even though I hadn't made a fire in it for over a week prior to the scan. I now have an insulated panel that fits tightly in the opening when it is not in use. This has also reduced my AC use in the summer as it seems quite a bit of heat and humidity were also coming down the chimney during hot weather. If the government hadn't done the heat scan, I would never have known how big an energy waster a fireplace is when it's not being used!

vverryshyguy, I was going to weigh in on the water heater issue but it's mostly a moot point now that you've done some research. One point that hasn't been touched on is that the heating elements are about 1/3 of the way points in an electric water heater. That is, 1/3 the way from the bottom and top so 1/3 in the middle. Electric tank water heaters are not something I'd want. I would either convert to gas or better yet to a tankless, on-demand system. For a single person, and probably even a couple, that would make the most sense IMO. Although rather expensive upfront, tank units now have gone up dramatically. I paid nearly 4 times what I paid for the last unit and now they're service life has decreased dramatically too.

With issues of the past few years I haven't compiled average costs and recaps of utility costs. I used to enjoy having that info and it helped me know where to look for conservation methods but I'd say my gas and electric consumption are not much different than when I posted last, when was that, 2010? Ah, check that, electric is probably down from there since getting a more efficient refrigerator and more CFLs and a couple LED lights. Gas would probably be down a little too. I don't complain about my utility bills for the actual utility. My distaste is for the things they tack onto the bills that arent' even utility related.

cynic:

Someone else mentioned the position of the heating elements in an electric water heater in explaining why the lower water temp at the bottom, where the cold water inlet is, can encourage bacteria growth. Perhaps electric tank design will change to a bottom-heating element as in gas heaters to address the bacteria growth issue? I can't help but wonder if there's more contaminants in our water today that is making this a problem now, or if it always existed but we simply didn't know about it? It seems like if this involved an automobile manufacturer, there would be a recall.

There was a period when electricity rates were much lower and in low-demand situations (like mine), an electric heater cost less to operate than a gas model. This is because electricity is 100% efficient when used for heating purposes. Standby heat losses with an electric water heater are also much less than a gas model because it can be totally encapsulated with insulation where a gas heater requires exposure of the bottom surface for the flame to transfer heat to the water. A gas water heater loses some heat to room air from the flame and the exhaust as it is piped outdoors. This is "free" heat in the winter, but it increases the air conditioning load in the summer.

The difference in cost per energy unit of gas vs electricity has widened considerably over the last thirty years. In fact, natural gas prices in my area have recently declined, while electricity rates have continued to soar.

The electric water heater is the original one installed by the builder thirty years ago and it is still functioning problem-free. I know of several homeowners who have conventional gas water heaters that required replacement three times during this period.

Tankless on-demand water heaters sound good in theory, but they don't achieve the energy savings originally claimed by manufacturers. In fact, those claims had to be modified in point-of-sale displays. Reliability issues and high repair costs merely add to their high initial purchase price.

I closely monitor my energy consumption and utility bills (as you might have guessed). I have all my utility bills filed from when I purchased the house in 1986. A new rotary compressor refrigerator and an LED TV take credit for some of the reduction in hydro use. While electricity consumption has decreased, but the bills have not. If it weren't for all the extra fees, charges and taxes, the monthly bill would be closer to the $20/month I paid in 1986 and not the $50/month bill I receive today. On the brighter side, my phone bill dropped $10/month to $15 when I switched from a dial-up landline to a pre-pay voice only monthly cell phone. I have a roof antenna that receives 42 off-air TV signals, but what I save not paying for cable I pay for Internet (which didn't exist thirty years ago.) Water/sewer used to be flat-rate in the good ol'days with no restriction on consumption. Property taxes however, have increased far more than any utility where I am located. We used to be a small, efficiently-run town that amalgamated with a much larger city. My property taxes have increased from $2,000/year in 1986 to $10,000 this year (which doesn't include a huge increase in water rates). Policing, fire, social services, schools, garbage collection and public transit are responsible for most of the increase. There's also been some extremely wasteful spending/mismanagement reported by the local newspaper. Bigger is definitely not better, or more efficient, in this case!

shyguy, I think you misunderstand the term "efficiency" when looking at heat production from different sources. A gas water heater may be only 65% efficient, a furnace 80-95% efficient. The difference between these numbers and 100% is the energy input that doesn't result in output.

Electrical resistance heating (as you describe for your water heater) is nearly 100% efficient - that only means that no energy is lost in producing heat. A heat pump (available for water heaters, by the way) can produce 3-4 x the BTU's from a given quantity of electricity than does resistance heating. How would you use your notion of "efficiency" to describe that difference?

Prices vary all over but many areas have historically had VERY low retail electricity rates because of their systems having access to the cheapest sources - from hydroelectric dams ( a source that won't likely be expanded) or coal powered plants (a source that will be declining in future years). Whether either or both, the reductions in these sources plus the money spent on the much more expensive "renewable sources (solar, wind, tidal, geothermal) suggests that electricity costs will only continue to increase in the coming years.

In many locations, heating water with gas is cheaper than than using electricity. This isn't new, it's been the case where I live for as long as i can remember. The performance is much better too, the warm-up/recycle time (to reheat the tank when hot water is used) is very much faster with gas. Of course, there are some places where natural gas isn't available. One periodic forum visitor named saltidawg has previously described in other forums his significant reduction of electricity use that came from switching to a hybrid heat pump type water heater from the old fashioned resistance types.

Snidley:

The adjective efficient can be used to describe many aspects, including energy production, distribution, cost and its utilization. I was referring only to a resistance electric water heater being 100% efficient in utilizing electrical energy to raIse the temperature of water. In terms of efficiency from source of generation (or production in the case of natural gas) taking transmission and transportation into account, net efficiency drops considerably for all energy sources and varies with geographic location. Strictly in terms of cost, natural gas wins, hands down. As you point out, it's also the fastest heating water. An air source hybrid water heater is extremely efficient in its use of electrical energy, however those savings vs gas are offset by the high initial purchase cost and potential repairs due to added complexity. New energy efficiency standards that went into affect in April will mean utility cost savings of 25%-50% on larger water heaters, depending on the technology employed. With about 20% of a typical home energy consumption being for water heating, this is significant.

Sorry if I misunderstood, it seemed you used it as if it were some kind of "ideal" or useful measurement in comparing different heat sources. If ever and wherever heating water was cheaper via electricity than natural gas, it was because of the very low cost in limited places of the electricity. The "efficiency" characteristic of the two aren't really comparable with one another.

As an example, in my area, using a heat pump water heater that's (let's say) 350% efficient when compared to a straight resistance model, can be twice as expensive or more compared to using a gas heater that's 65% efficient. You can see in that context, reference to the "efficiency" numbers is not only meaningless but also misleading.

Hi vverryshyguy,

I'm wondering ... that "election kettle" that you refer to ...

... is it keeping you in lots of hot water, now with this extended election season upon us?

Or - does yours produce hot air?

Maybe you could lend/(rent?) it to a local politician till 2/3 way through October (should charge him/her for the whole month).

Last time we had such a long election period was reported to be in 1872 ...

... when our nation (four provinces only) was five (yes, that's "five") years old!

Limited train service, not transcontinental: the last spike driven in 1885, wasn't it?

Telephones? No way!

Telegraph? Not sure about that.

Electricity? Nope!

Automobiles? No way: horses and buggies!

Airplanes? Get outta here!

Radio? None.

TV? Nil.

Computers? Never heard of.

Internet ... some people may have had hair nets ... but not sure whether they'd been invented by that time.

But ... long election periods allow the parties legally to spend more ...

... and bill the national treasury for half of it (or more).

ole joyfuelled

Joyfulguy:

Increasing property taxes and utility costs are more a provincial/municipal issue, but your point is well made. The province continues to download responsibilities onto municipalities and the blame goes back and forth. The bottom line is there's only one taxpayer and voters need to wake-up to this fact. The same economic rules apply to everyone.....including individuals, corporations and governments. Spiralling debt is never a good thing. Loaning more money to someone who is spending more than they earn never ends well. As you correctly point out, we have much more "stuff" today that didn't exist many years ago. Much of it makes our lives more productive, easier (in some ways) and more enjoyable in others. However, it all has to be paid for and much of it consumes massive amounts of energy that is becoming increasingly expensive. Climate change is also a factor. For example, few houses in the neighbourhood I grew up in had air conditioning when I was a child. Today, there are few houses that don't have central AC. Many driveways didn't have a car parked in them. Now most households have more vehicles than can fit in their driveway. Minimizing utility costs though more efficient use seems like an obvious strategy to cope with escalating utility bills, yet many continue to blindly increase their consumption as they also continue to go deeper into debt.
Political hot air would be a limitless renewable resource if someone can figure out a way to store and use it. (I used to use the waste heat from the engine block of an older car parked in an insulated, attached garage as it cooled off to supplement space heating in the house. Newer models don't work so well doing this as the engines are more efficient and produce less waste heat.)