there's a very good reason for the cost of fossil fuels - it takes huge investments in infrastructure to extract, move, refine and deliver them, and that investment hasn't been high enough for decades, so we're faced with demand exceeding supply .... not to mention that the primary objective of the "free market economy" is to extract the maximum profit from anything in MN, your natural gas likely comes from Canada, Kevin, and the problem there will be limited pipeline capacity causing supply limits the only reason to use natural gas or propane in cars is because it's slightly cleaner than gasoline, and in the past it's been a byproduct of oil production, therefor cheap - now that there are more uses for it [particularly chemical and fertilizer production], and folks have been pushing it as a home heating fuel instead of electricity or fuel oil, the demand has exceeded the supply face it folks, any type of petro product is NOT the "green" alternative, it's time to bite the bullet and find other energy sources as well as drasticly reduce consumption Bill

Heat from efficient electric sources such as heat pumps may feel "cold" at the supply register because the temperature may be less than normal body temperature (98.6 degrees F). Virtually everything less than normal body temperature may feel "cold" to many people. In fact, however, the supply air from electric systems such as heat pumps is more than warm enough to maintain a 72-degree interior temperature or higher (assuming house is properly insulated and sealed). That said, inefficient electric strip heaters with or without circulating fans, on the other hand, may be able to keep an interior space comfortable and warm, but they are notoriously inefficient and costly ways to heat interior space. Now, however, we're talking about efficiency and operating expense, not how a system "feels" and whether or not it will work properly to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. Gas fired heating sources with forced air supply distribution generally provide supply air that is warmer than body temperature--so they seem "warm" to the human body, but still are governed by a thermostat set to a reach and maintain a given setting. If the ambient temperature in a space is 72-degrees, it really doesn't matter how it got there--from electric or gas sources! With either electric or gas source heating, maintaining comfortable interior temperatures should not be a problem, if the system is properly designed and if the house is built for the type of system being used. System efficiency and operating expense should rightly be major criteria for selecting a heating/cooling system. That said, as humans we all have our preferences and personal choices, so whatever works satisfactorily for heating/cooling is usually a good approach.

More 'myths': ----------------------------- dazureus claimed: " Geothermal is a stand alone installation for both heating and cooling. " Really? You go on to say that it requires continual electricity consumption to run the system. How is that 'stand alone'? ------------------------------------------------------ "It is important to note that geothermal systems do have a back up heat source, but it's only used in a situation where the ground loops aren't providing the required temperature for the process stated above. A well designed system shouldn't encounter this issue." Few, if any, geothermal systems can operate without supplemental oil or gas or electrical energy sources despite what the salesmen tell you. If they could, we would have a 'perpetual motion device' that could operate indefinitely without ANY energy consumption to keep the system going. But, alas, there are no such things except for those whom of PT Barnum said: "There is a sucker born every minute!" ----------------------------------------------------------- " Besides these facts, we're installing a 6 well, 6 ton geothermal (ground source heat pump) for our 5000 sq ft ICF new construction in SE Michigan. Due to our tight building envelope, our ROV will be much longer than a conventional stick built house, but it will still be realized during the life of our build since it's our final house. Also remember that geothermal systems run off electricity so the future operating costs are decoupled from fossil fuel technology. Whatever technologies become more cost effective in the future for providing electrical energy, the cost to run geothermal systems will stay fairly stable." Ultimately you only tell us less than half the story. You do not tell us how much it is costing you to install your geothermal system and you have absolutely NO experience in operating your system to tell any of us IF it really will work as the salesmen told you it should! The fact that you are building with extremely expensive materials ( ICF construction) and extremely expensive heating and cooling technology (geothermal) only serves to tell us that you "think" you "might" one day see your house pay for itself over the rest of your lifetime, and only then, perhaps, see some energy savings! I can tell you with my broad experience that a conventionally built stick home, well insulated for your region, sealed against air infiltration, and heated and cooled with conventional methods will pay for itself much sooner at a lower initial investment... and save you more on energy costs over the long term than your ICF house will with geothermal! Too many simply fall for the gimmicks, the ploys, and the technological mumbo-jumbo they do not understand, without understanding how that technology works or whether or not it truly economical or can deliver as promised. ------------------------------------------------------ A friend of mine installed 6 240kva solar panels on her roof in her all electric home with the promise of the salesman she would reduce her electric bills immensely. Unfortunately, she never asked my advice. She paid $13,000 for the system. A system that does not provide enough electricity on good days to even run her toaster...and on most days does not produce enough electricity to light 2 light bulbs. Not to mention a system that doesn't work at night. The only one who is happy with her system is the salesman who duped her out of her $13,000 (plus interest) Oh yeah. Are you rolling your geothermal system and ICF technologies into your mortgage? If so, then rest assured, you will likely NEVER pay them off during your lifetime, or will have paid 2-3 times MORE for them had you paid cash, and immensely more for these 'systems' than if you built using conventional framing, insulation, heating and cooling technologies! So where are the 'energy' savings? There are ABSOLUTELY NONE! ZIP! NADA! You simply are paying the geothermal manufacturer and installer and mortgage lender rather than the energy company...and paying each of them considerably MORE! -------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line: CAVEAT EMPTOR! (BUYER BEWARE!) Newer does not necessarily mean 'better'. If geothermal systems REALLY worked and were the best bang for the buck, EVERYONE would have one! BUYER BEWARE!

RE: solar potential in the Midwest. We can actually get very little sunshine in the winter and early spring and sometimes can go a month at a time without hardly seeing the sun. The upper Midwest is the second worst place for solar potential after the Pacific Northwest. Even so, apparently with photovoltaics becoming more affordable and efficient and the amount of sun that we do have, it's becoming more viable to use them as an alternative energy source. I'm seeing slightly different statistics than David on electrical and natural gas home fires. It looks like there could be as many as 500 deaths caused by electrical home fires each year, with over 50,000 total fires, meanwhile roughly 2500 home fires are started by natural gas. The number of at home natural gas related deaths was a little less clear. I saw the 10 per year number, but that seemed to include all natural gas fire, not just in homes, and that wouldn't account for other natural gas deaths. Though in either case while the probability may not be as little as 1000:1, the chances of a natural gas fire as compared to the total number of dwelling units in the United States is about .002% each year. Also another factor in the sustainability equation: currently most of the power in our area is produced with coal. Until that changes, which is hopefully in the near future, it could be considered more environmentally friendly to continue heating with natural gas.