great question. I will be having our install next Friday. It also sounds like everything you described about your installer is the same as mine.
Sorry, no help from me, however I am too really interested in hearing some replies.

lenores

there are two main things an average homeowner can do.

1.check the mdl numbers of all the equipment you purchased as they are removed from van/trailer. mistakes are made,some on purpose. verify location of equipment that was agreed to.

in your case, this would be outside condenser, inside air handler, Carrier thermidistat, heat strip. what have I left off? as I said, you should have gotten the 9 KW prewired staged heat strip over the 10 KW which is oversized. The 9 KW is prewired and ready to go. Installers should know this. make a checklist and write it down.

2.at the end of install, you want to have in hand all owner and operating manuals. you should be given some basic instructions on thermostat settings/operation.

I always believe that a homeowner should stay out of the way and not look over the shoulder of the installers. have cool drink available along with bathroom facilities. I assume this will be a one day install with two-three persons. In your case, look over the scope of work that was agreed to. two things come to mind. the re-use and flushing of refrigerant lineset and that lineset has to be correct size to mfg specs. checking for duct leaks and making repairs as indicated. I am one of these where neatness and craftsmanship skills count. If something does not look right, then ask about it. I would ask for and put in writing the pressure readings of the refrigerant charge.
This is an attic installation? what about a drain pan? how will condensate be drained?

Every new install is unique and different.

You are not being paid or expected to be the installers' supervisor.

IMO
Good Luck!

tigerdues,
As usual, your comments are appreciated.

I will of course check the boxes with the correct model numbers, and I guess even find the numbers on the 2 pieces of equipment.

I have already spoken to the salesperson about the 9 kw, and he called me this morning to say that a supervisor had the two techs in who are going to do the job, and they discussed the fact that the prewired heat strips come in threes, and how to install them.. I hope this works out.

I am replacing a Carrier with another Carrier unit (ac/ out/hp in) and while I know the new refrig. will be used wouldn't or shouldn't the lines be compatible?

What should I be looking for to determine if the lineset matches manufacturers specs?

The duct testing is to happen either that afternoon or the next morning, and they have agreed to fix any leaks so that it complies with state rebate standards of I will ask for a pressure reading of the refrig. charge as you suggested. I will also ask for basic instructions on the thermostat.

It is not an attic install, but rather a horizontal installation (I think) in the garage. The drain pan now sits under the unit so I am assuming that the config. of the new unit would be similar to the old, or the salesperson would have discussed a change. Now you got me worried. I'll call him, again!

Without me trying to insult these men, would you think a monetary incentive would go some way to having them take their time to do a good job...after all one tips a waitress or a hair stylist and especially the auto mechanic because they do not own the shop, and these installers do not own the company.

As I said, I would not want to insult them.

Thanks again.

The lineset size is not an issue of brand. It is more an issue of refrigerant type. The newer refrigerants require a larger pipe.

You might want to remind them about the staged heating since it may require a new line be run between the thermostat and the unit. Your old one may not have enough wires in it.

Weedmeister,

You just gave me a headache and a stomach ache. Just when I was confident that things were going to work out, you shattered my confidence in the install.

My system was put in 9 years ago using freon, the old refrigerant. It seems to me that if the new refrigerant requires a larger pipe, then everyone in the industry would know this, and my sales person would have this concern at the top of his list. Instead when I suggested a new lineset, he did not say no, but told me about Carriers' flush kit and how effective it is cleaning out the lines. If he knew about cleaning out the lines from old to new, he should also know about small size to large size, and it should have been a serious concern to him. But, he never mentioned it. What I am trying to say is that any salesperson should be aware of the line specs, and none of the 5 quotes that I got from 5 different people ever mentioned anything about lineset size.

Again I can not believe that the first item he should have been discussing after I decided on a system, is a larger line, if the new system will not function properly with the older smaller line....you make me feel as if nobody knows what is going on!

With regard to the staged strips and the extra wire, how will I know if it is connected properly so that the strips do go on in stages? What if they hook it up without the extra wire, how am I to know?

You just dropped my confidence level to 50%. You are asking me to believe that the installers will take the extra time to run a new wire if they find it necessary, and I simply lack the confidence that anyone would do that. Without insulting anyones professional ethic, time is money, and if this kind of heat install is going to take extra time, I DO NOT believe that anyone would do it...especially if the guy paying the bills has no way of knowing whether it was done correctly or not.

I am getting cold feet, and may cancel the entire job.

Thanks for the info, but I am going to take 3 Aleve and 6 Tums.

Weedmeister is smoking crack. Line set sizes have remained the same, or in some cases, have gone one size smaller when the manufacturers moved from R-22 to R-410a, which Carrier calls Puron because their marketing department said they should. To purge or replace? My companys policy is to replace.

My answer to your question is you are completely at the mercy of the company you hire, and rots-of-ruck finding a good one. I live in a metro area that is +/- 2.0m population. If I could not hire my own company to install a system in my house, out of the hundreds and hundreds of HVAC companies in my market, I can think of just 2 companies that I would trust to do a good job - and TRUST is what it all boils down to when selecting the HVAC Company.

I've only poked my nose into this forum a couple of times. Honestly, most of the time I shake my head at the comments I read from homeowners and so-called "professionals". The consumer purchasing process is so dysfunctional and most of the time in conflict with getting real quality value out of their investment.

For you hard-hitting price shoppers out there, the truth is a contractorÂs price will be at the absolute lowest the day BEFORE they shut their doors  possibly taking your down payment with them. Your tactics ENCOURAGE short cuts. If you make a bad decision buying car for example, yes, you will take a financial hit trading it in, but you will not lose your entire investment like you can with purchasing HVAC.

This is not like purchasing a refrigerator or TV, where the assembly and quality control took place in a controlled environment. HVAC contractors are manufacturers in an UN-CONTROLLED environment  your house.

Sure there are tools for the consumer like asking the question "Are your installers NATE certified?" NATE has a great set of tests. I donÂt know how many different NATE tests there are. 7? 8? 9? There is a bunch, one for every discipline. Pass any one of them and you have a NATE certified installer. NATE certified in gas heating, yet installing a heat pump system is still a NATE Certified Installer.

The one and possible most important test has yet to be developed. That is the test to determine what the manÂs heart is made of. What will that individual do when no one is looking, the job is taking longer than expected and he wants to wrap it up and get to his kids soccer game? An installer with the knowledge, skills, and HEART are extremely hard to find and earn top wages, often 130% more than the going "journeyman" rate.

Lenores, I apologize for my rant. Some of it has nothing to do with your situation. I should have never look at this forum tonight. I only wish I had the valuable tip to help you know for certain that you have the right company doing the right scope of work. Then again, if I did know the secret to educating the consumer to know exactly how to select the right company, my company would be $100m instead of $10m. The reality is you have to make this decision ultimately on faith, and in your case, I truly hope that faith will be rewarded.

On second thought I do have a suggestion. This suggestion comes from a guy named Joel Weldon. (Google him  a fantastic speaker) Once you have narrowed your search down to one company, call the owner. Tell him that his company quoted $7,300 (or whatever it was) to install a new HVAC system and that you are calling him to tell him there is no way in hell that you are going to pay $7,300 for that new HVAC system. Then tell him that what you will pay is his price PLUS 10%, but you want the installation to be done like it was his personal house. I bet the entire company will know about you before the end of the day. How do you spell V.I.P.?

I love your handle: oneuglymother.

Boy, we might be friends. I am a cynic just like you even though you probably have facts to back up your feelings.
I agree with everything you said, but I am not going to call the company and offer to pay 10% above the price, as what then is the reason for shopping the price in the first place. Plus, the actual installers would see none of this, and they are the ones on the job.

However, what if I give the installers 1.5% of the purchase price as an incentive when the job begins so they will take their time and to a careful and proper job?

Price shopping is to confirm you are in the ballpark. You still need to wonder if the team who is providing the price is playing at the major league level, minor league, or worst. I truly feel for the conciensous consumer. Their experience purchasing tangible products (refrigerators, automobiles, TV, etc.) pollutes the process of purchasing intangible products and services.

My take on your suggested approach of some kind of upfront incentive for the installers is this. I think the installer with the "right heart" will not allow himself to accept the incentive. Why? For him EVERY install is done to his very, very prideful best. No compromises. No short cuts. He will politely decline and state this reason. You will not insult him by offering (if it is done right), but he will absolutely decline. Even if he does feel a little insulted, it will not affect his effort. That is just how he is.

Now, if the installer does accept your incentive, you may want to consider firing him on the spot. Now that I think about it, this actually could be a good test.

An unyielding pride in workmanship is almost impossible to teach at the employer level. It had to be done at the parenting level, or in the military. I dont care if he is the Michael Jordan of installers when it comes to speed and quality, if he doesnt have the right heart, sooner or later he will take a short cut; cheat a customer of their investment while putting the companys hard-earned reputation at risk.

Unyielding quality and customer service has to be a planned company culture. It doesnt happen by accident, or a one-time incentive. In my company every process is specifically designed to produce effective communication with all parties, assure a quality outcome that meets or exceeds the customers and companys expectations (most times higher than the customers), and to instill peace of mind for the customer at every step. We accomplish this with several efficient and effective checklists, each a result of analyzing best business practices that we have learned over the years. We share our processes and checklist with our potential customers during the sales process when we perform what we call our 90 second "Live Infomercial". (We dont go on and on about how great we are. Everybody will tell you how great they are even the absolute worst company will tell you how great they are. 90 seconds and we are done. The rest of the time is spent talking about you, your house and your comfort needs and how to maximize your budget.) You might ask a prospective HVAC company to SHOW you how they assure a quality outcome.

Assuring peace of mind is critical. Take you for example. You have already gone through the stressful process of the purchasing decision; you have made the leap of faith by signing an agreement with a company, now you are still full of questions and doubt, seeking advice from complete strangers who may or may not know what they are talking about, but sound good. I would consider that a complete failure on my part if that was my company.

As a consumer I have tested Joel Weldons 10% suggestion and it works. My personal feeling is it is a shame that it does.

oneuglymother,

You are an idealist, and I can't help but admire you for it!

I have never had a stylist, auto mechanic, waiter, et al ever refuse a "tip" or an "incentive". Tip after the job, and incentive before the job.

I thank you for Joe Weldon. I must admit that I did not know who he is so I googled him. I have been listening to some of his stuff, but I can not find that 10% suggestions you spoke of.

I did contact the owner of the company as you suggested, and he was quite receptive. He said he would not accept the additional 10% as his company does a great job for the price that is quoted. He did say that he guarantees his work, and that while a perfect install may not always be possible, he stands behind the work with a 2 year labor guarantee. He also said that he would send his install manager to the job, to see how things were progressing, and he hoped that this would settle some of my nerves.

I like your suggestion of the company SHOWING me how they assure a quality outcome.
How exactly do you do that? (checklists..90 Sec. infomercial...what would make a skeptic believe this?)

Thanks for your time and insights, and we'll just have to wait and see.

lenores

is your nervousness and lack of faith/confidence typical of major purchases you make?

I am not trying to insult you but some dealers would walk away from a customer like you. you already have the system failing before it's even installed.

It sounds to me like you have a very good dealer.

I have never liked the idea of paying a "tip" to the installers or a premium to the dealer. your dealer's reaction was most professional.

I will offer two other thoughts.

1.you want to use a Carrier FAD-factory authorized dealer.
2.if you want insurance, purchase the Carrier ext warranty.

IMO

tigerdunes,

Nice read on my situation, but in general the purchases I make are small ones where I can accept a loss or some problems because I can always bring them back or call customer service.

I have problems with large items that I can not return that are usually expensive.

This company I contracted with is a Factory Authorized Carrier Dealer, and before I spoke with the owner vis-a-vis oneuglymother's suggestion, I take it for granted that nobody will tell me that there service people are bad..so who can you believe?

I think you are right. I think he is a good dealer and his response to me was very reassuring. Maybe I needed to go through this to calm my fears that I was going to get taken. I was taken on my last ac install because I was in a hurry, and did not know enough about the product or the company. They had been servicing my ac for 3 years, and the year that part of the company was sold to "someone", but using the same service number and same service people, my coils and compressor both malfunctioned. It was August here in Florida, and they were here, so they got the job. My mistake, my stupidity.

Finally after two attempts, I thought they got it right. Two weeks ago I hired a different service tech to do a yearly maintenance on the system, and he was unable to remove the cover that sits on the box that houses the coils. All other techs would take it off(the older ac unit) and clean or "refresh" in there. But when he went to remove it from the newly installed ac coils, the install was such that the cover could not come off due to the pipes and some "blue" filter type looking thing that was soldered to copper piping going into the coil housing. He told me the installer put the cover on, and then soldered the "blue thing: in place after the cover was on.

He was critical of the install, as he said they did not do it correctly. There was no room to remove the cover if the "blue thing" stayed soldered and connedted.

These are some of the things that bother me...not that the install will not work. But, if something like this was done, who can only guess as to what else was done that I can not see or even know about? How am I to know if the staged heat strips were put in correctly? I understand that to do this there is a low voltage wire or something in the wiring from my thermostat to the a/h controls that allows this to happen. If My existing wiring does not have the necessary number of leads, he will have to run a new wire. I will not know if he does this, will I? These are the little things I worry about.

It know the install will work or function. If not the company will provide a warranty. Plus I pay yearly for a service contract that will cover all parts and labor..it's the little things that the unit is supposed to provide that it may fail to provide if it is not hooked up correctly. It is these little things that I would not know about until someone comes to point them out.

Thanks, and I will reply when the install is done and let those interested parties know how it went.

tigerdunes,

One more thing. Your post had me thinking, and I guess I sound like a cry baby.

Everything I have seen on this web has specifically mentioned that the install is the most important part of the process, so long as you buy decent equipment.

I never expected the install not to work as I purposely selected well established companies using well established brands. I looked at the warranty, both parts and labor, and so I expected that when the installers left, the ac would be up and running.

I was talking about the little things that the homeowner might not see or might not know to look for. I am talking about installer who did the proper install and setting on each piece without using shortcuts that a layman would never notice.

This was my fear, not a botched job or an incomplete job.

lenores

I do not subscribe to the frequent statement that the install is everything.

there are three parts that I believe are equally important.

1. quality HVAC-there is still alot of junk in the marketplace especially on HPs.

2.good ductwork system both design, sizing, insulation, supply and returns(probably the most overlooked).

3.dealer install

just like most things, you get what you pay for. and quality/comfort will long be remembered over a cheap price that performs poorly.

you are not an HVAC engineer or technician. when you purchase a car, you expect it to run as advertised. again you are not an auto engineer or mechanic. just trying to make a point. there is the concept of trust, faith, and confidence that the average person should have when making a serious purchase. you can not judge everyone by a past poor experience. reputable establishments want satisfied customers and hope to make a reasonable profit. just like you, they don't want problems either.

IMO