Does anything in your quote, contract or e-mails from this contractor say 'variable speed', as opposed to 'multiple', 'multi' speed? Was 'FE4' ever written?

That would be strong ammunition for your case.

SR

Hi,

The email thread I have from them simply states the price. I then asked for the exact model and they said did not have the exact model numbers handy.

So then I called to get the information. That is when they told me over the phone it was variable speed. Since I was referred to them through the GC, I really had no reason not to believe them as the GC has been great to work with. But he really was not handling this part of my renovation.

I can't seem to find the first invoice I received from them. The second and final invoice for the 50% balance simply states payment for completion of project.

The one informal quote simply states Carrier 13 SEER. Which is exactly why I asked if it was variable.

So it seems like I might be between a rock and a hard place, which is why I was also asking for creative suggestions to make the best of the situation. I am guesstimating the price difference of the two units if I went with variable speed units might have been roughly $1,500 total. So if I went with a whole house dehumidifier for roughly the same cost would that be a reasonable solution?

Or should I really say I want what I asked for as that is really the better way to go as a fixed fan speed unit and a dehumidifier won't work as well as the variable speed unit.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions :)

I am sorry about the problems with your new AC equipment. It is very frustrating to spend a lot of money and then not get what you wanted.

My first reaction is your contractor did not do a load calculation and your AC is over sized. You set the thermostat at 77 and the AC is probably short cycling. This does not work well in a high area of humidity.

I know it is too late, but I always emphasize people must get a detailed quote of what they are buying. You should never assume anything with an HVAC contractor.

Ask the contractor if the blower speed can be slowed down. Ideally you want an air flow of about 350 CFM per ton of cooling.

You can buy a whole house dehumidfier like those made by Sante Fe. The larger models can be connected to the duct work. You would want to install it in a place where it can drain the condensate water. If no drain is available then a condensate pump can be used. I would not bother with the $200 dehumidifiers sold at Sears or Home Depot. Spend the money on a good dehumidifier that will last 10 years or so. You be able to get a good unit for $1500.

Buy a good hygrometer to measure the humidity. You want the humidity to be below 50%. If you can get down to 40% you may find 77 degrees feels too cool. This would allow you to raise the thermostat a degree or two and save some money on the AC operating costs.

Mike,

Thanks for the follow-up. Yes, they did do a load calc as that is attached to the permit copy I just found. So I would hope that they have the right size units. It was also the same size two other companies suggested.

I am just not sure how much a variable speed unit would have helped. I am looking at the whole house dehumidifiers that connect into the HVAC system. I want to do it right.

But as of right now, I am a little confused if a whole house dehumidifier would work well on a fixed unit like I have or if I should really push for the variable speed unit like I requested.

Thanks for any ideas and suggestions.

I would want and insist the fan coils and thermostats be changed for the âÂÂFEâ series fan coils and Infinity series thermostat/controller. I would offer a fair price for that exchange and be open to some negotiations. I would mention that the 13 SEER system, that you have written proof of, could NOT have included a variable speed fan coil.

I would see where that got me.

I would let them know that I am giving them 10-days to act. Failing that, I would be taking legal action. That once legal proceedings have begun that âÂÂI donâÂÂt settleâÂÂ. That they would have to bear all costs including my legal fees; that they can act now or take their chances in court. I would document this and advise them by registered mail.

But thatâÂÂs just me!

IMPO

SR

Just to follow up here after rereading this thread. Your heat pumps are also only 13-SEER. It may not make a whole lot of sense installing an Infinity FE series variable speed fan coil with a 13-SEER heat pump.

YouâÂÂre in a difficult place to negotiate fromâ¦

IMO

SR

The upgrade cost for the var speed FV series air handler should be no more than $500 each.

You should know however that the FX series air handler is high efficient but not variable speed. However the FV series var speed air handler should improve dehumidification plus with the matching Carrier thermidistat would give you dehumidify on demand feature for AC cooling.

I personally think that the dealer has been very unprofessional in documenting and communicating exactly what you were purchasing. Partly your fault too for allowing it for such a sum of money.

He should be called back out about the humidity issue and check the blower speed setting and possibly lowering one level.

The suggestion of the Infinity Series FE air handler and matching Infinity controller is just not realistic for the 13 SEER model condenser. Waste of money when the FV series would do the job just fine.

3685040 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 13 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB330A30 FX4DN(B,F)037 1000 30000 12.00 14.50 30000 8.50 18300 1 HRCU-A-CB 250 684

IMO

Thanks as this is very helpful. The dealer is supposed to be out this morning and they are going to start by "tuning" the system. So I am going to see what the current blower speed is and what they turn it down to on each unit. Then we will take it one step at a time.

I do agree I should have done a better job and they should have taken more time to go over the options. Not an excuse, but doing a whole house gut job, I was focused on all the things I was doing and thought leaving this to the professional was something I would not have to lose sleep over. I thought I verified it was a variable speed unit and I should not have simply took their word. Lesson learned.

Does anyone know what usually happens if they have to pull a unit like this that has been in service for 6 weeks? Do they eat the total cost?

That said, there seems to be a consensus that if they get the blower speed right, it will work fine. Then there still is the possibility I will need a "real" whole house dehumidifier for days in which the temperature is reasonable but humidity is high as if the AC is not running, it is not really dehumidifying. Has that been other's experiences for somewhere really humid like south Florida?

I will keep everyone updated and I really appreciate all the suggestions :)

I mean no disrespect but from the info provided you have very little to stand on. An undocumented tel call about the var speed air handler simply does not cut it.

The air handlers are 6 wks old. This issue should have been attended to much earlier. There really are two solutions to the issue. Get the existing air handler to remove more humidity or replace with the correct size FV series. A good dealer would replace. I doubt at this time the dealer would want to do this because there is no documentation about the var speed air handler. He probably would just as soon lose you as a customer.

Have these two systems been registered for the Carrier warranty? This should be verified in writing.

Assuming these systems have been charged correctly ( and this should be verified this morning), then the blower speed is about the only thing that can be tweaked with the new equipment. Then you can tackle the infiltration issue on the home.

Sorry for your trouble.

Report back.

IMO

Hi,

They have admitted there were some documentation problems as this was transferred between 3 different people as it took a bit long for the order to be actually placed and the lack of a true invoice among some other things. Also, I do have emails asking this information. But I am not really looking to place blame as I believe to some extent both parties are culpable. I asked the question about swapping so I have some idea of what is a realistic request to make. I want to be reasonable and come up with a good solution that is a win-win for both. Not an afterthought poorly designed solution that never works right. All that said, the dealer is here servicing it and wants to take it one step at a time before we jump to any conclusions as they feel this setup should be fine once tweaked.

On the larger unit that services the first floor which is 3 ton(I by mistake said 2.5 at the top of the post), the charge was off by 7 degrees. The top floor was off by 6 degrees. So he set the top floor 1.5 ton to 12 degrees and the lower floor 3 ton unit to 13 degrees.

On both units the fan speed was set at the factory default of medium. He said he is moving them to low.

He also said he is going to knock the cfm rate down from where it currently is at about 350 cfm per ton to 275 cfm per ton.

He did a humidity check with a something sling. After having the AC units set to 55 degrees for 2 hours. That brought the upper floor temp to 73 degrees and the humidity was 62 percent. The lower floor with the 3 ton unit was at 72 degrees and humidity of 52 percent. I am kind of wondering if that reading was correct as that seems a bit drastic. But we are trying to dry the house out as much as possible and then we can bring the temp back up running at the lower speed and see if the humidity stays out.

I will provide another update on if things do stabilize or if we are going to have to invest in a whole house dehumidifier also.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and if you think we have missed anything, feel free to point it out :)

"He also said he is going to knock the cfm rate down from where it currently is at about 350 cfm per ton to 275 cfm per ton."

I think 275 CFM is too low. You may end up with a frozen coil and the system will run efficiently. Is he measuring the air flow or is just estimating based on the what installation manual says? If the air is usually is less than what you think it is because of duct work restrictions.

"we are trying to dry the house out as much as possible and then we can bring the temp back up running at the lower speed and see if the humidity stays out."

If you had a flood in your house, then there you want have a reason to try to dry out your house. The humidity in your house comes from outside air infiltration, using water, cooking, and the inhabitants. If you don't change anything of these things then the humidity level will remain the same.