All I can say, is "Bless You". You really do have a kind and good heart. You have to remember that this isn't easy for your BIL either - I would think it would be very difficult to move into someone else's house and not have anything that was yours or always feeling like you were intruding etc. Maybe he doesn't feel like that! :-)

Anyways, with the way things are he's so very lucky to have you guys to help him out.

I would take advantage though of having him do things around the house. Yes, there's no monetary gain having him rake leaves, etc. but it does free up you and DH to do other things. Maybe he can clean out the basement, paint some rooms, shovel snow, make a to do list and see what he can help out with. It will make you feel better and I would think him too!

I can understand the sweetener thing. You may remember me saying I had a house guest for 3 weeks; I found the same thing but with coffee. Like you, I know how long a big can of coffee lasts us; about a month- well with my house guest- it lasted a week. You would not believe the amount of coffee he drinks. Add to that me driving him home once a week to get his mail- never gave me gas money but he did remark that my car used a lot of gas. In his case; I don't think he realized how far a round trip from my house to his was- I ended up calculating the driving one day- talk about feeling petty- over 500 miles in 3 weeks.

Do you feel comfortable talking to BILs wife? If she doesn't plan to take him back; perhaps she needs to do some down sizing so that he can move on? My SS went through something similar- kept putting off telling her to sell the house; in the end he got screwed big time.

We're thinking about renting our spare room- my hubs niece wants to stay with us- someone said I can get about $300 a month- this is not including her buying her own food. Maybe do some research on what a room would go for near you.

It would be nice if your BIL would either do his own food shopping or at least kick in money towards food & board- something.

I wish you luck. I hope it doesn't take him as long to wake up as my SS.

Is your MIL his mother? Why can't he stay with her (or his children) for awhile?

Here what I think I would do to...I would tell my husband that we are going to set a date for the 'rooming house' to close. Then we would give the guest plenty of notice (8 weeks, perhaps) that after that date he will have to make other plans for his living arrangements.

Good luck. You are a much more patient person then I am.

ML

First, you are a saint. Second, being told by someone who cannot manage his money that he he will "give me what he can" is kind of meaningless. Maybe he needs to get a second job.

It might be time to set Buddha in the middle of the kitchen table - LOL!

First and foremost -- Very well done indeed! You have been very generous and decent to handle this situation. Is there anyway that he can spend some more time at other relative's homes -- even for a weekend or two each month?

And yes -- next -- make a "project list" for the upcoming year -- with tasks that can be done by your BIL. Painting, cleaning etc. Keep it at hand -- and start to assign tasks at the appropriate season.

And then -- yes -- agree that your BIL DOES need to learn to cook. Therefore -- each Friday/Wednesday etc. will be HIS night to cook. Yes -- you will have to set the menu and buy the items (and do say that in front of your DH) BUT your BIL will prep the items, prepare and clean up afterwards. Also, do you have a barbecue? In good weather -- he can grill something and make a salad.

As for the petty stuff. It happens. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't change a darn thing. Buy the sweetener, honey or sugar (whichever is cheapest at the time) -- and keep remarking about how the cost of items is sure going up!!! :) And THEN -- take home on the trips to the grocery store!!! Make a list -- and pick up items -- and HE can carry bags AND unload items at your place!

Keep him busy and working! :)

You have been a saint! My friend had a similar situation. Her house guest was huge and would sit all day on HER chair. He ruined it! She told her DH ( Who also supported him staying with them), that when he moved out she wanted a new chair. It was several months later, and I do not think she got her new chair. How can people take advantage of someone elses home and privacy? I can understand if they are in bad times- but they can help in other ways as well. Running errands, cleaning, etc. Good Luck!

Pesky what a generous soul you are. I know it's not always done with a smile but still..... I get it on the sweetener - sometimes our frustration overfloweth and we get a bit childish or passive aggressive and it makes us feel a tiny bit better, or in control in one small area. To have lost that feeling of control of your own space for so long, and to someone *seemingly* oblivious to their impact on your life is so hard.

It's easy for me to say I'd be tougher and draw a line in the sand with DH, set boundaries and expectations for BIL - that's what I THINK I would do. I'd like to believe I could. But the reality is always so different from our sideline view and posturing on paper (or at a decorating website) is easy - living it is a whole 'nother ballgame.

However.... there is something to consider here, for you and for your DH. It's rolling around in my head and may not fit your reality but I'll share it just in case. If you think of your brother's behavior along the lines of an alcoholic - doesn't matter if he drinks, it's the behavior and how disruptive it is that I'm talking about. He's being enabled to continue that behavior and has no reason to change. I know you want to set limits but maybe your DH will see it differently if he understands how he's contributing to his brother's situation and his lack of 'progress' in getting it resolved. The economy plays into this and so it's not just cut and dried - times are tough - but surely there are steps he could be taking to begin getting his life in order. Not a lot different than a tough love attitude with a kid who thinks he can always get one more chance. It's not easy but in the end it's the favor your BIL needs, I think.

Pesky I have wondered how your situation was going. For some reason I feel so sorry for your BIL and I know you do too. I guess that's why you put up with it. Maybe things will change soon, maybe.

Graywings, you are so funny.

Two things jump out at me:

o The comparison to an alcoholic is apt.

o If BIL gives his wife his check and historically both have been poor money managers, what on earth makes anyone think that she's using it to pay the past-due rent?

Me, I'd have stopped cooking, cleaning and shopping long ago. Since I don't believe in joint accounts except for real estate, the bank-of-me would be closed as well.

"DH and I have had many discussions about him and it's a battle I'm just not going to win. I've made peace with that, but I'm not happy about it."

This should not be a battle between you and your DH. I'm with maddielee on this one. Enough is enough is enough. Time for your DH to take a stand as a husband, not as a brother, and support what matters to you and the stability of your marriage.

You can only be taken advantage of if you allow it. With that said, I feel terrible for what you're enduring.

I hate to say it because I know you already know that YOU TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT YOU. This goes for BIL but most importantly, DH.

Your DH is taking BIL's side over you which is profoundly destructive to your relationship.

Thanks everyone, I don't feel saintly! I like the alcoholic analogy...I've always told DH that he's an enabler. His brother has always been the one bailed out by someone. And he's the older brother, too! I wonder if it has something to do with my DH being a very big man...very muscular. His brother is petite, so maybe DH always thought of himself as the 'big brother'? When BIL was 18 he was caught with marijuana and their DAD took the rap for him. My FIL went to jail for 6 months for something his son did!! So that gives you an idea of BIL's mindset perhaps. It's always up to someone else to bail him out.

I've told DH that he can't put his brother over me, and he swears he wouldn't. I just found out from my MIL that DH is at the end of his rope with his brother, but he feels responsible for him. My MIL is the same way...she brought over a couple of bags of groceries because DH has been griping about having to buy so much food. Both of us are perturbed by what she did, but this is her skewed way of thinking...she too is responsible for her 50 YO son. We TOLD her not to do that, but you can't tell that woman anything once shes made up her mind. There is no way BIL can go live with her; just another disfunction in this utter screwed up bunch.

So I just do what I want from now on. I've stopped cooking...we had enough left overs that we could eat those for the last few nights. BIL has been making himself rather scarce lately, too. I think he's sensing that he's worn out his welcome. I printed up a chore chart...specifically things that they can do, but I haven't hung it yet. And well, if BIL doesn't like it, he can hit the road.

DH and I have a 20 year history of dealing with family. His son is a whole book in itself. I'm amazed we made it through intact with that kid in our lives. But at the same token, there is my family...again, incredibly disfunctional, and the crap they put my DH thru, up until the last couple of years, has been more than anyone should have to deal with.

So it's a compromise. I'm grateful for this outlet to vent. And I think maybe Buddha will be front and center for the dining table this week!

I'll just throw this out here, knowing that none of us know all the history and nuances of the situation, but here it is....

I know two couples who just lived together while they were divorcing. The house was hostile I'm sure and one of them was either in a separate bedroom or on the couch. But they didn't have the cash to maintain two separate residences until the details of the divorce were final and the home was sold. So they toughed it out.

I actually admire them for it. They didn't impose upon anyone else and they figured out their own problems.

This of course only works when there isn't any possibility of violence.

I concur with everything Kelly said. Especially after reading your post, Pesky. Someone needs to get some balls and finally make that man stand accountable. His character is being assaulted by his entire family. He needs to stand in his own mess.

I am seeing so many Buddhas in your house that there would even be Rubber Buddha's around the tub, to be floated while bathing. Forget the carrot garlands on the tree - I'm seeing Buddhas.

Hang in there and complain all you want. Just don't forget the goal is resolution.

I can't believe how many families I know have a "kid" who has been allowed to stay in a childlike, dependent state. It's usually the mother who decided that one of her children needed to coddled, but I also know a father who was the main culprit. They think they're protecting a weak child, but in reality they're stunting the kid's growth and robbing them of a chance to have integrity and self-respect. Without meaning to, they teach the child to be a manipulative user of other people. You basically end up with a middle-aged teenager.

Not being one to mince words I say to MIL and DH, "You aren't doing BIL any favors, so cease and desist. It's going to be very painful for him to grow up this late in the game, but you aren't gonna live forever. Who'll take care of BIL when you aren't around to do it?"

Wow, I can't believe that your FIL went to JAIL for 6 months for something that his son did. Talk about taking enabling to the Nth degree!

Whatever happens, try to remain true to your core values.
Maybe you can't change your bil, but you can protect your marriage in a time when perhaps your dh can't/won't/whatever be exactly what you want him to be. He is deeply flawed...and so are you. So this this the time to suck it up and be there for your husband. But, I still think it's fine to hide the Splenda!

And your bil may not be responsive to direct help but subtle nudging may indeed push him a little closer in the right direction. Maybe you could recommend to him some Dave Ramsey books?