I like the round shape, but you lose all the storage under the prep sink and a lot on the other side because of the other pie shapes. That may not present a problem.

If you are going to this level, I would take out the indent on the mid left and round that out too, making the whole thing ameboid.

I should have explained the pie shapes ... the angled cabs up top are not 4 pies... it is 2 pairs of pies :). I used the triangles to get the shape right, but didn't make the middle lines invisible. So the sink is over one cabinet on the left, which is 2 pie-wedges wide... and there is another cabinet on the right that is 2 pie-wedges wide. So we lose the storage under the prep sink totally, but the other side still has some useful storage.

Nice plan, Steve. Have you ever worked at an island with clipped or rounded corners? If not, perhaps my experience might prove useful.

My island is 5' x 3.5' with the outer two corners (facing the kitchen table) clipped. To put it bluntly, I hate them. They are not useful for prepping: I stop short at the angle, losing 14" of space I could really use on my small island (it houses the cooktop, too). About the only thing the angle is useful for is for visitors to stand and chat with me. That would be fine if I had plenty of prep space.

IIRC, one of your goals with this reno is to gain more counter space. Angling or rounding corners looks great but before you move ahead, try a dry run with plywood or cardboard cut to shape and see how it works for you. It may not be a problem. Or you may hate it, as I do. And wouldn't you rather know ahead of time?

(I'm eliminating the angled corners when we redo our kitchen. Can't wait!)

Your counter eating area has come out very nicely.

Lisa -- thanks for the comments. Your comment about the clipped corners is part of what I was wondering when I asked "did mitering the corners on the island reduce its utility"? Given that there's a sink in the left corner, I'm not sure if there is less net usable work surface there. I do wonder if the curve (rather than a clip) on the right corner is less of an issue.

Now that you've made me think about it, I'm wondering where at the island I'd stand if we want to (eg) rinse and cut veggies for a stir-fry. Is that quarter-circle corner an OK spot for that, or will we be annoyed that it's not a normal, straight, counter?

Good drawing! The knees now look friendly but doable, and there's just enough room for plates. Similarly, the elbows may be friendly, too, but it should be okay for family meals. Certainly for snacks and cereal. Do you have a mixture of righties and lefties? You might want to arrange those carefully and assign seats. But it works.

Interesting about prep. I don't know why I didn't focus on it yesterday. Probably because you can make anything work. When I look at your plan, the place I want to do most prep is on the long side of the island across from the clean up area. I wonder if shifting the sink to the other wedge wouldn't be better. That would free up the landing area, and give sink access to the right of page side. Might be worth putting the sink in the middle, because the end is the least useful standing position, and one mostly stands to the side of the sink to prep. At least I do. That might reduce the storage space, though if you're doing it custom, you might be able to put in something special, like a push-me-pull-you behind the sink with vertical storage for cutting boards, baking trays, oven racks, and serving trays. Not sure there's enough room, though. Never mind...

Although the clipped corners do make a lot of visual sense, I like the round top of page end of the island better. It looks more comfortable to work at.

Well - our cabinets are frameless - but they're from Europe (Germany) - Poggenpohl.

I have the same observation I made in another thread. When you take stuff out of the oven - where will you put it? In the refrigerator? I am a small 63 year old woman - and when I take some heavy sucker out of the oven - I want a trivet right next to the oven. Also - where do you put cooking utensils needed for things in the oven - like basters - digital thermometers (I always use one of those on a big hunk of anything) - potholders - etc. You're putting in a 6 burner range - so I assume you're kind of serious about cooking. I think people need counter space next to their ovens.

Finally - I'm kind of old-fashioned. Even though it's only my husband and me - we eat our meals at a table. Don't grab a bite balancing on a stool. Especially with kids - I think it's important for families to have meals sitting around a table. Robyn

Did you take a look at any of the sinks that are trough like and could extend from one side to the other? I posted a few but there are others.

Elizpiz' sink/cooktop/prep sink in island set-up isn't all the different from what you might end up with so I thought it worthwhile to post two photos of it for you.

Here's a long shot of her kitchen (sorry, you'll have to copy and paste. The "Read me" thread format changed and it no longer includes the html code for embedding images in a thread and I can't remember it).

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_qfeyEOUH61Q/Sr1jQRyBQXI/AAAAAAAAB4E/Yb2Q4Gdl3DA/s1024/DSC04109.JPG

The prep sink is behind the plants on the island.

Here's a shot of the prep sink in the island.

http://picasaweb.google.com/elizpizzinato/BeforeAndAfterTheLittleKitchenThatCould#5385569861181095554

Her island is only 42" wide. The prep sink (Franke) is directly across from her cooktop. Prep can be done next to the sink or down either long side (not sure if this is how elizpiz does it but it's what I'd do).

Since you sort of asked.... ;-)

If your kitchen were my kitchen, I'd square up the end of the island and eliminate the angled cabinet between sink and range. Then I'd put the prep sink on the narrow end of the island, probably at the corner closest to the sink wall so that I have plenty of landing space for fridge and ovens at the other corner. But it could also go at the other corner, too, ala elizpiz' set-up, freeing up the long side of the island (sink side) for a nice long stretch of prep space.

One reason why I'm not keen on having a prep sink where you place it is that when you use it, you'll be standing in one of the main traffic aisles in your kitchen.

The reason why I'd eliminate the angled cab between sink and range is because it looks like that angle only has about 15-16" of frontage, on the lean side for one person (our corner sink has 22" across the front and I'd hate to have less) with 18" to the right and 12" to the left. Sure you can twist one way or the other to work but I'd rather have 30" to the left of the sink and 24" to the right of the cooktop, which looks to be about what you'd gain without an angle cab in the corner.

Let me stress that these are my preference, based on how we work in our kitchen (or more correctly, how we'd like to work but can't in our current kitchen). Feel free to ignore me, you won't hurt my feelings. It's your kitchen, after all.

Oops, one more comment. We have a smidge less than 43" between island counter and our 36" wide French-door fridge (doors, not handles). It's generous enough for us even though the island cooktop shares that aisle.

Cool sinks, palimpsest.

Here is a link that might be useful: Elizpiz' finished kitchen

Now that someone kindly provided the html code for embedding photos, you won't need to copy and paste to see what I'm talking about.

Sorry they are so large. I guess I need to go find the code for reducing pic size.

Robyn -- thanks again for the comments. I discussed in the other thread our view of the tradeoffs around counter-height seating. In summary, our family likes hanging out together and eating meals together, and don't think that the height of the table will impact that at all. I actually loved marcydc's comment: "If one acts like a short order cook and a waitress and allows their children to walk away, the cause is not your island configuration."

Lisa -- thanks for the pix. And yes, that is one cool prep sink. Who's is it? I was talking with DW about the angled cab in the corner, and I think we may go back to a squared corner for the reasons raised here. And ditto for squaring off the island again. I think that while visually interesting, we lose to much useful space with either the clipped or roudned end.

Once again, GW proves to be incredibly useful for bouncing ideas around, even if I end up back where we started.

Re: the interesting shaped sinks from palimpest -- I did see them. are the trough sinks actually useful? I can't imagine doing much more than rinsing a glass and mixing a drink in them, but they do look cool. Where would you position that arc one?? I've looked at it a million times but haven't been struck with the right inspiration..

I just wanted to chime in on the trough sink idea..... does anyone here actually have one of these? I've seen them in several showrroms, and spent some time miming using them for various tasks: peeling carrots, washing hands, washing a chicken. I never felt I could accomplish any of those tasks. I asked a showroom rep once, "other than look really cool, what is the function of this sink" and she shrugged and said, "Maybe fill it with ice at a party?"

So: I'm just saying..... maybe go look at one in person, or get the advice of someone who uses one, before spending a lot of time trying to work one into your plans.

It would have to be wide enough to use the way you wanted. Some of them seem too narrow, and some of them would be adequate for vegetable prep and rinsing as well as being the ice bucket. Rinsing a chicken though? No...

Too bad ... those troughs are cool in appearance but probably not for us. I think we're going back to squared off ends and a caddy-corner square sink, a triangular sink, or a round sink in the top-left corner of the island. That puts > 24" of straight work space to either side of the sink.

I found the Franke prep sink here. Bummer: It requires a 27" cabinet. If someone made slightly smaller version of that, I might really go for it.

Re sinks, Elizpiz's, which Lisa showed is by Franke and comes with its own fitted colander, cutting board, etc. It's meant to be a whole food prep system, in a much more compact way than the Kohler Stages. I saw one installed on TV, in a small kitchen, that had a cover for the large bowl made out of counter top, so that only the little round bowl showed most of the time. Quite clever!

Trough sinks are great, but limited. I have the Kohler Bordelaise, which combines a trough with a bowl. The bowl sits away from the main prep station and I keep a colander in it on the wire rack. I use the shallow trough for most prep tasks, often with the colander, as well. It's great! But not for everybody.

I can't really figure out what the questions are about how it would work. Mostly I prefer to do meats at the clean-up sink because it has a lower counter, the disposer and is right next to the stove, but I did once rinse a chicken in my trough. Not a great idea, but it can be done, carefully. The main thing is keeping the chicken water from escaping and spreading contamination.

The way the full arch troughs (half circle) are usually installed is in a deep counter, with prep space in the middle. I tried to find a picture but couldn't so they may not make that one any more. There's a smaller one that is shown with a faucet in the middle which serves no function that I know of--I think this arrangement is just for looks. The big one required two faucets, as do some of the longer troughs. It's more for showing off, like in a bar situation, than a more cook's kitchen kind of thing. The other common installation for super sized troughs is down the center of an island, with a faucet at each end. I saw one picture of the big arch done that way along the edge of a rounded island. It would be easy enough to get something like this fabricated, as well.

The partial arc trough shown by Palimpsest isn't as big, and can be useful in several ways. It could be at the rear of a prep area like the full arch, or to the side, hugging the prep area. One might even have a rounded island with one at each end.

For most purposes, in my opinion, troughs are more useful with the drain at one end, rather than in the middle, unless the sink is super sized. An interesting one is the Kohler Crevasse, which flushes(!), the water being controlled by a button set in the counter, and entering at the top of the sink. It can simultaneously control the disposer.

Don't forget the squiggle trough. It's more for show than serious work, but it's too darned cute! Albeit, very big.

Just saw one that undermounted in granite would look like a fissure. Rather gorgeous, but barely a bar sink, don't you think?

Steve- I don't know if you need all these angles on the working half of the island...or just slightly round off your corners, so you don't have sharp edges. Then you could have an area (more like Lisa's photos) with more room for your sink.

I agree with Robin about the ovens. I don't mean to be critical, but if you haven't really thought about where you would stand to use your pie shape sink, for washing veggies....have you really thought about where you (and the kids) will put hot things, coming out of the ovens? Now is the time to decide, while you're planning, so it might be worthwhile to think about this. If someone is sitting at the stool, closest to the oven, you may have some real safety issues to consider.

You may also want to think about where things coming out of the microwave are going to land...and the fridge. Right now, you have a small landing space on the island and a small space by the range...and that's it.

Maybe you could move out your pantry by the dining room and just have one pantry, over by the window (a little bigger?) and figure out a way to put some counterspace, between the fridge and the ovens. The microwave could always go in the island or over the counter.

Steve- One other thing...if you would be open to taking out that bay window and changing that wall a bit...you could do something really dramatic with the range, like in the photo Lisa posted.

You have a large space for your kitchen, but I'm wondering if constraints like the bay window (which exist from the previous space) are keeping you from exploring all your possibilities?

Best of luck with your design! :)

Thanks again to everyone who is contributing to making us smarter about our kitchen.

Lavendar -- Unfortunately, we've been through many iterations and even tried a few "flipping" options that put both the sink and cooktop on the back wall which would have allowed for fairly dramatic window placements. But unfortunately, that left us with too little storage and too cramped an area to put everything else including seating... it led to a very pretty but ultimately less functional design, so we kept coming back to this.

As I said, I think we're going back to squared off ends on the island. That puts > 24" of straight work space to either side of the sink, which actually wouldn't be in conflict with a seated person for landing space out of the oven. I imagine that basting tools and thermometers and the like would rest on the island right near the sink. In an earlier version of the design, we had the MW at "over-the-counter- height in top-left pantry, leaving an open counter on a 27" base cabinet. It yielded less useful pantry space, and the general consensus was that we needed more pantry up there and had plenty of landing space between the island and the counter near the cooktop.

What I'm getting out of this thread is increibly useful, though -- the attempts at "style points", i.e. clipping the corners on the island, and widening the island, actually were a detriment to utility. Rounding seems to help a bit, but going back to where we started is probably the best bet. Floorplan forthcoming.

Oh, BTW - that *flushing* Kohler sink looks incredibly cool! I don't think it is quite useful enough, however, and I have to wonder about its longevity/serviceability. But cool!

I'm totally with you on function. You're talking about the latest version but with square instead of round on the top of page end, right? I'm trying to guess the passage at the fridge. That's where the pinch point is going to be. If you can eek 42" out of it, it'll be great, but even if it gets down to 39" it should be fine, and 36" would be copable. That gives you the end of the island for pivot to stove prep or staging, plus room for a worker on either long side.

You might want to consider rounding just the very corners to prevent sharp points digging into hips.

Re oven landing space, I have counter just about next to my ovens and island 42" aisle across. I always land onto the island. I stand to the side so it's just a straight lift across rather than a change in direction. This kind of thing depends a lot on your oven door. My drop down one is short, and my others open to the side. Some oven doors nowadays are massive because they cover all the trim, not just the cavity. That means you have this big ol' thing to lean over to access the oven (no wonder roller racks are so popular!!!). A big oven door like that could kind of block you in and cut down your ability to move something out of the oven. Something to think about while you're shopping.

Hi! I know this is absolutely NOT what you want, but I want a table in my miniscule kitchen and I don't have room. So I want you to have a table! Your design is good with the island, but it seems like that oven could be a problem if you have people waiting for dinner and seated right where you need to put something hot. It's not ideal to have it open in front of the dining entrance, but it sounds like you do most of your eating in the kitchen. The built in bench at the windows would have storage drawers and be of a width that two people could slide in and out without having to disturb those seated in chairs at the end. Thanks - I've had this in my head and finally decided to get it out. Phew, I feel better :)

Clueless -- I really appreciate the effort... and I want to get a hold of your software!!!

Oh good, I prepared for a "What the h#$@ did you not understand about the table??? " I had just been trying to get a better landing for your oven and space for your prep sink and, IMHO, it seemed like that window wall was begging for a table. Just for clarification the fridge wall has a 30" pantry and a 12" pullout pantry along with the MW and oven in the same column. The TV is still in the bottom RH portion of kitchen. The software is a free one called Sweethome 3D. Pretty good for free and allows you to get a better idea of what your space might look like. I always used the basic, but SugarCookie just gave me this link for updates in icons. Have fun!

Here is a link that might be useful: More Sweethome goodies

I have run through this whole conversation rather quickly and by skimming, but I don't see an explanation why you have to clip or round the island, either one. Is it style preference? I would get rid of the angle on the corner lazy susan so it's not usurping floor space and crowding the island, then square off the stove end of the island with the prep sink in its original location, but on the corner, so it has a 'front' facing the stove end and fridge side of the island. Then you get the most counterspace and utility out of the sink and island that you can. Sorry if you addressed this and I missed it...

Clueless -- and there's even a version of SweetHome for my Mac! Excellent! Worth the price of admission to GW just for finding that out.

Rhome -- turns out the clipping was originally to provide more clearance by the fridge if the island was going to be 48" wide... but we're going back to 42". I also liked the look, so I tried to see if it could work; I determined that it doesn't help. Rounding was an attempt to get some style points without sacrificing function; i call it a swing and a miss. Back to a squared off island; i haven't had a chance to post the pic yet. Tomorrow I may do so using my spiffy new 3D software, thanks to Cluelessincolorado.

I have a Mac as well and this was a good fit. When I was first looking I couldn't seem to find anything - for PCs only. Hope it helps.

The software is great -- i'm actually using it to plan the entirety of the renovation now. The Rendering and lighting are quite impressive for a free package. But I can't figure out a good way to put in our island with a custom-shaped top. I was thinking of using google sketchup to model the island as an individual piece of furniture and then import it into sweethome. Any experience with that?

I haven't done anything but import the available SweetHome objects, but about 1/2 way now the user guide page there are good instructions for doing so. Not sure about Sketchup. Have fun!

Here is a link that might be useful: Info for importing objects

I had gotten the import from SketchUp to work; i just haven't yet tried to do any modeling in SketchUp.

For kicks -- even though it's OT -- here's a HQ rendering of what the nonkitchen portion of our renovation *might* look like (furnishings are whatever I could find that match approximate size/shape of what we were looking for, not actual selections yet.

Nice package, considering it is free! (note that the photograph display above the couch is not showing my actual photos, even though in my current house, that's what you 'd see there :) )

I'm a happy guy... now only if I can figure out how to do better cabinets, island, and appliances and such to make the kitchen look more like what we're really planning on doing. I'm addicted!

Oooh...Just when I'm trying to convince myself to stay off the computer and preserve my neck, you find me a new design software that's FREE and works on a MAC...and which renders gorgeous 3Ds. How can I not try it?!

That's nice software! I like how open the two spaces are...very inviting plan :)

Steve- I'm really not trying to be difficult...and I know you like your kitchen plan, but your new software reminded me of something I saw on a design show (maybe Candice Olson).

You cutouts on the side...on the show they did a cutout like that, over the sink, between the kitchen and dining room. They had it about 4' wide, with upper cabinets for dishes on the kitchen side and wine glass/fancy storage on the dining room side. You've probably seen the type of cabinet...dark wood, with glass front doors and glass shelves, lit up on the inside. The wall was still there, except for the cutout area.

They had a hutch on the wall, originally, but moved it into the kitchen (I believe) and used the built in storage in the dining room. The cabinets were very similar to the hutch and it all looked wonderful, together. It also gave the homeowner a better view from the sink...and a pass through for dishes.

The hutch ended up being between the kitchen and great room, for more dishes and I think game storage underneath. While it may be all wrong for your situation, I thought I would at least share the idea. It was really stunning, when it was finished :)

I keep checking back to see your latest kitchen plan, Steve. What's keeping you? ;-) Based on the changes you'll make to your plans posted above, it sounds like you are awfully close, if not there, to the plan that gives you all that you want in your kitchen.

That Franke sink is slick. Are you saying a 27" cabinet isn't doable because it's a size not offered in the cab line you're considering? Or because you can't figure out how to add it to your plan? You could gang a 27" and a 12" (39" total, with counter overhang 42"). Might be possible to have the 12" cab used for pull out trash, can't remember if one comes that narrow. But there are other prep sinks that work in a smaller cab, too. I just didn't want you to discount that Franke sink because you didn't think you could make the cabinet lay-out work.

Lavendar -- thanks for the comments on the plan and the rendering.

I know you're not being difficult - you have a vision for how it might look which could be quite beautiful indeed, and I do appreciate the opinions and input. It helps us flesh out our own ideas, too.

When we played with version(s) of that idea, we didn't like what it did to our particular situation. That said, with the rendering software in hand, I do plan on revisiting the idea of openings near the DR, because it could be fairly dramatic. Unfortunately, the impact on cost could be fairly significant, too. It's yet another bearing wall to take out. Even with a visible header, it's a cost. And -- see previous thread on slippery slopes -- there are only so many "just another thousands" left.

Rhome - full disclosure -- that rendering was done on the highest resolution /highest quality setting, and took quite a bit of time. I wanted to see if it's worth it, and it might well be, in some situations. But to give you an idea -- I started to generate a video of a walkthru of the house at a lower resolution but high quality. A 1 min video at 25 fps would have taken upwards of 9 hours.

The downside of finding such a great 3D package is that it has distracted me from the kitchen design! I resort back to a lame 2D rendering, since I can't quickly get this island into the 3D package:

You can see a couple of things in this version:
1) I "found" about 2-3 inches in width due to how this software measures distances with thick walls.
2) The island is 42" wide (rather than 48). I did that by making the cabs that face the oven be 18" deep instead of 24.
3) That lets the oval at the bottom of the island have a different curve -- one that creates more room for seated people. I think 5 can fit pretty comfortably here. (But we will still block this out).
4) I turned the sink to face the cooktop, but would likely put the faucet on the diagonal if feasible -- or a round sink. The sink is currently in an 18x18 cabinet. (Lisa_a -- a 27x24 cabinet up there might work, but it would require rethinking the other cabs in the island... which I'm not ready to do yet.

I think the clearances are pretty generous all around this, and there ends up being gobs of open space between the seating on the island and the couch in the next room.

Sorry for the holdup in getting this posted -- and thanks for the feedback!

Steve- I think this island has the best seating. Have you posted this shape before?

My one concern (and I know you know this LOL) is your landing space by the fridge and oven. I only ask, because I believe you said you have children? Have you walked through the process of making cereal in the morning? Taking cookies or pizzas (plural) out of the oven? Hot pockets (or other snacks) out of the microwave?

I promise, I will NEVER bring this up again, if you've already done all that :)

I think you've done it! I'm pretty sure you've made up the space you've lost in the corner by squaring out the island. I find angled corners creepy, so it looks--phew!--a lot better to me. :) That's just a quirk. There's nothing objectively wrong with the angles. I think it'll be more comfortable for the cook, however. With the 90 degree corner you might want to give a thought to corner drawers. :)

The knees are always going to be friendly with this shape table, but I think you've got it to the point where someone who doesn't want to be sitting cheek by cheek can have some personal space, even if it's just by an inch or two. There certainly seems to be some elbow space.

BTW, you know, you could solve Lavender's problem with a flip up or pull out surface on the downpage side of the oven. My whole "table" is a flip up shelf with sturdy brackets. It's fab.

One of the cool things about GW is that other people somehow get "vested" in you having a successful design. So I appreciate everyone's comments, even though I can't possible take every suggestion.

pllog -- I won't comment on your angled-corner-fettish... but thanks for the feedback.

Lavendar -- thanks again for the oven reminder. We do have kids: 5, 11, and 14. We have walked through lots of processes - in fact, every time we do something, I ask DW: how would we do this in the new kitchen?!? It's not always easy to think about, since we're not actually standing in the new space. The landing space is not the real concern. Believe it or not, the big question for me is how much prep work we'll actually end up doing on the oven side of the island vs the cooktop or sink ends... and then we'll have the trek around the island to get things into the oven. Taking things *out* of the oven is less of a concern to me, because there is the island right across, as someone mentioned is their current common practice. Taking things out of the oven while someone is seated isn't very common, honestly. We don't have the family in their seats awaiting the arrival of the food.

Coming out of the MW is similarly not a concern because of the other counter. Also, at least one of the MW cabinets we were looking at had a landing surface that pulled out like a cutting board, should we go that route.

As for the process: We've just chosen an architect for the construction drawings (necessary for the building permit given that we are [re]moving structural walls; after those drawings confirm that the resulting space will be approximately what these measurements are looking for, we'll bring those to the GCs and KDs and for final bidding. Then it's off to the races! I'm sure we'll have more questions along the way.

Thanks, everyone!

Is the oven located in a column cabinet or is there counterspace over it? I had previously thought the only landing was the space near the stools.

It looks wonderful! And IMESHO, this plan is heads and tails above the plan you started out with. I'm not a fan for eating at island counters but I have to say that I think that even I would like to sit and eat with family at such an invitingly shaped island.

If the oven turned 45 degrees and faced down the kitchen, a person standing there would be out of the action of the walkspace.

An interesting thought, florantha! But I think that makes the island a less useful landing spot.

Clueless: Yes, the oven is in a floor-to-ceiling cabinet. It is a double-wall oven. So the only landing space is on the island, "above" the stools.

I'm still mulling over the sink location -- wondering if we're better off putting it on the top-right corner of the island. We like the drawer stack where it is (for silverware) which is a big part of why the sink is where it is. But we could shift things around if having the sink there improves workspace and landing zones...

Thank you Steve...and as promised...I'll never bring it up again! I'm glad this plan is working so well for you and look forward to seeing it drawn out, with your new software :)

Lookin' good. I see plenty of landing space, myself....Island between sink and seating, and the counter beside the stove. I'm not a big landing space person, though, and am not bothered by moving a bit to get to some when I need to.

Of course, I like the diagonal faucet idea, since that's what we have for our prep sink!

And thanks for the heads up about the software. 9 HOURS...Horrible.

Steve- Thought of your kitchen, when I saw this picture :)

{{gwi:1591823}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to kitchen

Lavender -- thanks!

And now, for some 3D action:

Overview of the kitchen (low quality rendering for this one, sorry!)

Looking out across the island:

Sitting in the LR, looking in the general direction of the kitchen (the TV will be on the wall unit on the left side of the pic). (You can see the hutch and catch a glimpse of the island from here).:

And finally, for kicks, a view from the FR into the LR, head-on:

In case you're interested -- I used google sketchup 3D to model the island countertop and imported it into sweethome 3D, where I gave it the texture. There's probably an easier way using sketchup for everything, but I had all of this stuff already in sweethome 3D.

Very cool. But what about the view from seated at the window side of the island looking into the kitchen?

No, really. Very cool. I played with Sketch-Up but had trouble being precise and quit. It looks like your program combo gave good results. (It's 2D, but I combined a lot of PSP and CD!.) Excellent renderings.

Nice! and here i was struggling with stupid MS visio when this exists!

My 11 year was doing a 3D medieval castle with Sketchup for a class project. Never occurred to me to use it for the house! D'oh!

Very cool to see your plan in 3-D!

When do you break ground, so to speak?

Thanks -- this SW was a real find - DW and I are much more comfortable with the overall plan now that we've visualized it.

We're aiming for May 1 to "break sheetrock" on this. It seems far off but there is still a lot to do.

The architect was just in today to measure the "as-is" and will do the structural analysis and provide construction drawings -- critical for us because we're removing so many structural walls. We'll use those for final GC bids and final KD and cabinet bids. Cabinets need 6-8 weeks, so if we really want May, we need those orders placed in March. And it continues from there!

Oh... And for anyone considering this software for KD work, it is not easy. I have started doing 2d work in one tool (OmniGraffle on the Mac), and then looking for apropriate pieces in sweethome3d for the 3d renderings. Sweethome3d does a nice job with the renderings but is a bad 2d program. SketchUp might be ok for both 2d and 3d; not sure. But right now I am maintaining two sets of drawings - one for 2D, one for 3D. It's a real pain -- I'm glad we did a lot of the early iterations in 2D only.