If you are talking price, LG is now the most expensive with their new washer and dryer; both priced at $2,699/each. My wife and I, after many months of shopping, purchased Miele and we are content; we like Miele's service staff too. Purchase what makes you the happiest as you have to live with it for years to come.

I believe as far as home machines are concerned, KitchenAid is top in price, at $3499 each for the washer and dryer.

Here is a link that might be useful: KitchenAid Washer

Joe,

I stand corrected. We did not look at KitchenAid as a choice since the last go around with their supposed high-end appliances was a bloody nightmare (KitchenAid was extremely disingenuous), hence, our decision to never purchase another KitchenAid product.

Hi res149,
It really depends on where you are putting that washer. The Duet and Sears HE5T (made by whirlpool) have the least vibration issues. We had to return our Miele pair because of problems. Having said that our new Duet steam dryer has had two service calls already. Our laundry room is connected to the kitchen and the Duet washer noise is acceptable with very little vibration. Those new Samsungs are even better for noise but you cannot get them fixed.

The laundry room is on the second floor and close to the kids rooms. Noise and Vibration might be an issue. I checked into consumer reports and the new Miele washer and dryers are not tested yet. The one Miele dryer they tested, had a low overall score. Darboydoughboy, what problems did you have w/your Miele pair ? Which Miele pair had you purchased ?
LG and Whirlpool had a better score.

We have the W4840 and a non-matching GE dryer in our 2nd floor laundry room. If your not going to match, don't believe Whirlpool or LG provides any added value over the $550 (delivered w/ old dryer disposal) GE Profile 7.0 cu ft gas dryer which has sensors, stainless drum and significantly more compact on the outside (about 3" less deep and we didn't have the 3 inches to spare). Now if you've been hooked by the allure of steam "magic", neither the Miele nor the GE can help you out. I had a HE5t-Steam (essentially the same as the Duet-Steam) and thought it was a gimmick, but to each his own. We all dance to a different tune.

In our 2nd floor install, the HE5t had better vibration characteristics than the Miele. On the first floor we didn't notice when the machine went into high speed spins. It's suspension is "softer" and more isolating than the Miele. However, it couldn't spin up a load as easily as the "stiffer" Miele can. It would falter on spin up attempts more frequently. However, it's rebalance logic is patient and evenually the load gets spun up (although the cycle time can get quite extended). It's really a set up trade offs. With the Miele, and most machines vibration can be a VERY complex topic. For example, as our W4840 spins up it actually imparts more vibration at some lower spin speeds than it does at the top speed. At it's highest spin you barely see the machine move at all. The Miele chassis and suspension is tuned to be optimal at some frequency and the physics of your house construction will respond to vibrations at some frequencies more so than others. That's why this 2nd floor FL washer thing is so upredictable and complex. On other brands, I've noticed in some stores the sales people push you way from LG if they hear it's a 2nd floor install, but no doubt some with LG's do fine on the 2nd floor as well.

If you are used to European Miele washing machines, you may find the ones sold in US don't measure up. The build quality is (probably) still there, but the feature set (available temps, wash action, cycle-flexibility) is quite different. Miele has concluced that US residents don't care that much about laundry, and that we just want push a few pre-set buttons, so they've "dumbed-down" Miele's legendary washing options. Machines that look the same as Miele's European models offer much less flexibility here in the US. And by and large, the US-market Miele machines can't be re-trained to perform European tricks.

HTH,

Molly~

Hi res149,
At the top of the page, click on the search field and enter--returned Miele machines

Great feedback, thank you !

We have a wood floor in the laundry room - Do I have to expect problems regarding vibration w/ any machine ?
Regarding LG machines - there a lot of complaints regarding the water level .... are these single concerns or does every LG machine have a low water level ?
Regarding the Whirlpool Duet Steam - what woud be a reason for not buying a washer or dryer ?

For the Whirlpool Duet Steam (and similar Kenmore) the reason for not buying the washer is that the steam function adds little to no value, costs more, adds complexity and potentially another item needing service. Don't know if the Whirlpool steam generator has a way of flushing itself, the LG doesn't, and if not it's a mid to long term service item especially if you have medium to hard water. Never saw any "steam"; pretty much another way to heat the water, and the non-steam versions have internal water heaters. Save the money and buy the non-steam version.

All the machines have low water levels these days. I highly doubt LG is any different than the rest. Call it even on this one. On on Miele, was able to adjust a firmware setting and get nice, satisfying adequate rinse levels. Now that I've watched it a bit more, the wash levels might be a tiny bit higher, but the rinses are great.

The 2nd floor problem isn't so much what your finish floor surface is, but what is underneath. Joist size, spacing, bracing, subfloor thickness and how well it's anchored to the joists can make a difference. Where the machine sits relative to the joist support is also a consideration (closer to the support is best). If your expectation is to have a 100% assurance of no vibration in any situation then put the machine in the basement. Maybe with the Samsung VRT-based machines you might come closer to that, but overall every machine has a good potential to create some vibration on the 2nd floor. We don't live with the expectation of no vibration so the little we hear and/or feel for the brief periods of high speed spin doesn't bother us. Others with Miele and other brands have reported significant problems. We don't all live in the same design structure, built with the same materials so you really can't take one person's experience and project that to how it will work for you. Don't know what those other people's expectations and tolerance to vibration either.

I empathize with Molly on what has happened to Miele with regard to user interface and flexibility. I'd much prefer to have fine control over all the parameters. I'm mad as well that they've gone 110V like everyone else so the heaters aren't as powerful. It seems the build quality is still top notch. But for all those disappointing factors the fact remains you can't buy what isn't produced (aside from spending $10K to $20K on a commercial machine that requires 3 phase power and more). You can't point to an alternative that in any substantial way that still provides those attributes in a machine normally distributed and serviced in the USA. It's sad, but also the reality.

We bought an LG Tromm washer/dryer set in Nov '06. I would not recommend them. Within a month of using the washer, we started noticing the mildew smell in the washer. We also had trouble leveling the washer to keep it from walking across the hardwood floor.

When the service tech came out, he leveled the machine and said that 'all front loaders have the mildew problem'. He suggested running an empty load with bleach and hot water once a month or so AND drying out the rubber gasket when we're done with the washer AND leaving the door open. What a pain!! Our W/D are in the mud room that we use to enter the house, so now we often have the washer door sticking out to walk around.

Plus, the mildew smell has NOT gone away, and our towels smell mildewy when they get wet. Before you purchase an LG front load, google 'LG washer mold' and pull up a chair, there's alot to read.

The LG dryer seemed to dry pretty well... but our dryer drum split and had to be replaced just shy of one year. No big problem, it was under warranty. Now, it has quit drying - have a service call scheduled for Tues - so glad we bought the extended warranty!! Two service calls in 16 months is not an impressive record IMO!

Definitely would not recommend!

We've had the LG WM2688 and matching gas dryer for about 8 months and love them.
It's true for all FL's, you must leave the door open a bit, and runing an empty load once a month if you start having problems (we don't)

Ours stays level and doesn't "walk", although it's on a concrete floor in the basement.

If any FL is on a main or upper floor, then you must check the floor construction to see it any FL will walk / vibrate.

LG's dryer drums are stainless steel.

Google:

"Maytag washer mold" 12,700

"Miele washer mold" 17,000

"Whirlpool washer mold" 18,200

"LG washer mold" 21,200

Mold is a problem with any washer if you do not leave the door open and keep it dry. It is a problem in top load washers too. It is just more common in front load washers as people have a tendency to not let to doors open as it isn't as convenient to do so. I always used a bleach or hot hot water and afresh load through my top load washer on a regular basis, just as I expect to do with my new front load washer. No difference in how I will treat my machines. ( I purchased an LG and it does not walk on my floor with is above a basement.) It does vibrates a little, but so did my top loader. I plan to get a 2'x10' and sister it to the joists under my laundry room. Was going to do that before the FL, and will still do it.

One other question: If there is a problem w/the washer and dryer, do service "people" usually know more about LG or Whirlpool and less about Miele appliances ? I'm in upstate NY and we have two places selling Miele washers and dryers - both of them don't have a Miele washer and dryer on their sales floor.
Thanks everybody !

If you need to have your Miele appliance serviced you should call the Miele number. It will be found in your user manual. They will arrange to send someone. I would also go to the Miele web site to find listing of authorized dealers in your area.

I think it is possible to get them serviced by other than "Miele" techs(Miele techs only work on Miele appliances and no other brand). In this case the folks doing this are supposed to have been trained to fix them. Sometimes I wonder if these companies have sent one or two people to training and then they turn around and sometimes send repair people who have not actually attended the class.

Anyway a true Miele tech will arrive with a laptop that can be connected to the machine and will use that to check all the machines components, and make any adjustments. The laptops contain parts inventories, white papers, technical directions, schematics, help numbers the techs can use if they need further assistance and the software required to interface to the appliance so that there is less guessing about what is going on.

regus patoff,

Did you know that a google search of "regus patoff" brings up 2,700 entries?

To be honest, I don't know what that is telling me but thought it was an interesting tidbit.

Glad your LG doesn't dance, but being on concrete like yours is really the most stable setup. I'd guess a walking washer must be a sign of setup imbalance regardless of how level it looks. Service guy who came to our house last week said being level is a good starting point. Said to tweak the feet a little bit at a time while the machine is doing it's most aggressive spins as the way to really get it setup properly. You'll never get an installer (of any brand or store) to take that kind of care.

res149,

You are smart to look at who can service your machine. You also have to consider that build quality might reduce the need for service over the long haul. Buying from a local company with their own in-house service department authorized to service the brand you want can be a good sign. The local appliance dealers not having Miele's on the floor doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. If not many are sold, there is little incentive for their service departments to invest in the brand. Certainly would be good to know if the factory reps mentioned in a prior note cover your region on a regular basis.

gordonr,

Google :) I was just repsonding to the previous message that was knocking LG's mold search.

Goolgle searches :) gordonr 50,500 :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gordonr

RegUS PatOff YouTube video 1953 Bugs Bunny Cartoon

Do any of you have any thoughts on Bosch - I am considering the 800 series washing machine and just because I like things to match, I am looking at the dryer too.

Bosch is the one 110V machine that says it will guarantee wash temperatures by using it's internal heater to compensate if the fill temp isn't enough. Very nice feature indeed. Just didn't like that they define "warm" as 95F. Who knows, possibly that compromise had something to do with Bosch being able to be Energy Star competitive with other brands that don't use their heater in normal cycle. It's not hard for any machine's ATC to fill at 95F. Being a traditionalist, I prefer the old standby of 104F as "warm". Otherwise it seems like nice stuff. Like every brand out there, you'll find Bosch fans and those who have had problems.

I went to different stores to check out washers and dryers. Overall, I was told that the Samsung 3.8 Cu.Ft FL Washer and the 7.3 Cu. Ft. Front Electric Dryer would fit our needs the best. I would love to buy a Miele washer but there is a huge problem w/service in our area.
I was told that the Samsung machines do not have a problem w/vibration on the second floor and that this washer should be great regarding quality and performance. If I need to service the applicances, I should not have a problem.
I was also told in stores that my second choice should be Whirlpool. Sales reps did not recommend LG because I have the laundry room on the second floor.
What are your thoughts ?

My thoughts?

First - what do you want and need in a washing machine besides a strong assurance of low vibration? Do you need any special cycles? Do you often like to do hot washes? Etc, etc...

A machine that may not do the wash cycles you desire, but has low vibration is just a different set of trade-offs from accepting some vibration but doing the wash as you desire. Getting the wash done to your requirements should be the primary requirement and then look for the lowest vibration.

You have a second floor laundry room. With this type of setup the big questions for a HE machine are:

1) How quickly can you get hot water to the machine?

2) How hot is the water from your DHW source?

Since the Samsung will only use it's internal heater when doing a sanitary cycle, the answers to the above two questions will really determine what the machine can do temperature wise. Our 2nd floor laundry room has a dedicated, insulated PEX hot feed directly from the DHW tank. I checked the other day and the hose fittings felt hot within 10 seconds of the start of flow so it's getting the hot water very quickly. With our DHW set at 131F, a hot fill at the machine was still only about 110F. The SS drum and clothing suck up a lot of energy. In a machine whose internal heater only operates in sanitary, that would be the best we could do for a hot wash. With less optimal piping, it wouldn't even be this good. If we set our DHW source to 140F, I'd guess we could get a ~115F fill. Some people don't care about, or never do hot washes. If that's the case, the Samsung or any machine with no/limited internal heater would work fine. Anyways, just a consideration thats very important to me. FYI - Whirlpool and many LG's (certainly their top of the line) will use their internal heater in a number of cycles (but not all) besides sanitary. Samsung's answer to this would be their silver care stuff. Believing in this vs. actual hotter temperatures is a leap of faith. Also have to consider the environmental and unknown nano health issues of the "Ag" approach.

"But for all those disappointing factors the fact remains you can't buy what isn't produced (aside from spending $10K to $20K on a commercial machine that requires 3 phase power and more)."

As far as I know, you can still get the Miele Little Giants in the US. While they are commercial machines, they can be ordered with single phase power, and they do cost significantly less than $10K. I own the PW6065 and love it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Little Giants

"It's (Duet HE5T) suspension is "softer" and more isolating than the Miele. However, it couldn't spin up a load as easily as the "stiffer" Miele can. It would falter on spin up attempts more frequently. However, it's rebalance logic is patient and eventually the load gets spun up (although the cycle time can get quite extended). It's really a set up trade offs."

This is exactly right. The Miele is almost a brute force approach. It attempts a reasonable balance for a preset time and then kick-in the HS spin. Good or bad- luck of the draw. It might limit max spin RPMs, but that is about it.

On the Duet, it attempts to balance. Seems to have a much more sophisticated balance routine (for example, the clock countdown suspends while attempting balance for multiple tries). Of course, this extends the time, but usually it will balance well on a HS spin eventually. In a year, I have had only one spin that even caught my attention, but no floor shakes like the normal Miele W4840's HS spins.

The HE5T is so good, that I tend to forget it spins at 1300 RPM and sometimes put in a heavy time XL cotton sweater by itself. In this case, it attempts to HS spin and just give up eventually and or goes into a low RPM spin. So trade-offs. But for me, a good one for a 2nd floor installation. YMMV.