Hi Jlc! Yes, I have had a life long battle with depression. Have I conquered it now, at 47? No, but I have learned a great deal about what works & what doesn't, & I manage depression with much more success than I did in my younger years. I have unorthodox views that are not PC with the psychotherapeutic community, but my views are born from lots of experience, observation & reading. I have a degree in Psych, minor in Soc., & am very critical as I already mentioned, of the field's approaches to "treating" depression.

My first suggestion--get your hands on a book that changed my life. The author, A.B. Curtiss, has been there, & she shares extremely intimate, personal accounts of her battle with depression. She too is a licensed therapist, & dismisses much of what goes on in the world of therapy. The title of the book is "Depression is a Choice." Please, please do not be put off by the title. The reader, or sufferer of depression, is not bashed or ridiculed by any means whatsoever. Ms. Curtiss does not, however, support the reliance of the psych community on psychotropic drugs. Yes, she is very anti-prozac, & insists that we have within us the ability to pull ourselves out of our depression. She does not have a cavalier attitude about it or suggest that doing that is easy. She strongly suggests that it takes tremendous effort, but we can do it, & it is worth the effort.

As far as "fixing yourself" goes. Yes, in a sense, you "can," but not alone. Reaching out to your fellow human beings is vital. Posting here was a good step to take. I posted here about my depression once, & it was helpful to connect with others. Many people here will respond to you & give you completely different suggestions than mine. The important thing is you reached out. Depression can be terribly isolating. There is always the temptation (w/me anyway) to close the door & shut the world out. That's when just taking a walk outside, calling a friend, or engaging here with others, connects me with something outside of my head, & grounds me again in the reality that there's a world out there much bigger than my depression, which seems to loom so large!

I think depression IS a part of life from which we can grow & develop strengths we didn't know we had. I'm personally GLAD that I have had these painful periods in my life. Depression has been a real gift that has taught me a lot, made me more compassionate, & connected me more deeply with with myself & humanity in ways that good times & good feelings never could have.

Best wishes on your journey.

Have you tried fish oil? There was a long discussion here a while back about non fishy fish oil supplements and a lot of people say they help with depression. Just a thought. I have considered starting to take them to help with the seasonal stuff - I do not have depression but I do tend to be less energetic and more "down" more easily in the winter when there is less light.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, it's not an easy place to be and I hope you're able to find your way out of it. I suffered from depression for many years when I was younger, and like you it wasn't physical which meant there were other reasons for it. It's called a disease, but when it's not physical, I personally feel it's only a symptom of problems that are festering inside. It also seems too that it isn't something many people understand or are very tolerant of. As a result it can be very isolating and that only makes it worse.

After years of trying to deal with it on my own, I decided to find someone I could talk with. The first 2 people I tried just wanted to prescribe, but I wasn't interested in medication that made me feel like a zombie. It took several tries, but I eventually found a professional I felt comfortable with (which is key) and she was able to help me without medication. I also learned some coping tools for the future. Another part of the process for me personally was learning to see the world as a cup that's half full instead of half empty.

Of course you'd like it to be something you can fix on your own, don't we all? But honestly it's not and during the process of healing, you'll need outside validation, a soft place to fall, and someone not involved who can help you see things possibly from a different perspective? You don't have to live this way, I hope you too will try to find someone you feel comfortable with so you can get to the core of the problem. It may take a few tries to find the right person but stick with it. I'm amazed at much my life has changed since that dark and dreary time. It's like the sun is constantly shining.

Awwww sweetie, I am right there with ya. For me it comes and goes from time to time. I think I've always had some issues with depression, but never got treatment until it came to a head 10 years ago. When my youngest was 5 months old I happened to be at my internists for a checkup--and wound up bursting into uncontrollable sobs when she asked me if I had feelings of sadness. (niceness just makes me cry!) Needless to say, she put me on Prozac and some other meds and they worked pretty well. I've tried to "do it by myself" but I've found I wind up back in a funk and return to the meds a couple of months each year. It just seems to be a constant in my life I suppose.

I also tried some therapy, but quit--I can only take so much "active listening" before my BS-meter kicks in. I get more help just grousing with a girlfriend!

I'm glad to hear you're going for a physical. Is your doc sympathetic? Has he/she treated you for this in the past? Hopefully they can shed some light on it.

Stuff that has helped me in the past:
1) Prozac. Can't say enough about how that changed me for the better. I'd like it not to be so--I'd like to be a "bootstraps" kinda girl. But the reality of it was that wasn't happening.
2) telling a couple of trusted friends what the heck was going on. The were great. Also found out that they had some issues too. YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
3) DH, after HE got over the idea of wifey being medicated to get through life, ha.
4) Like you already know, get adequate sleep, eating right, vitamins, and reduce stresses. Are you starting to feel the pressure of the holidays? I know I am getting a little anxious.
5) Try to take a little trip somewhere. This helps me TREMENDOUSLY. A change of scenery, even for just a DAY will do some good. So do your kids like to visit state parks? Ours love it--but it takes ME a lot of effort to WANT to take them. Once we are out there, I get refreshed :)
6) Turn off the freakin tv (unless it's a COMEDY). Do NOT watch the news for a week and see if you mood lifts. NO news before bedtime--EVER! There is nothing you can do about some child's murder or the state of healthcare in America...so don't listen for a while.
7) Pull out some old albums with fun music--ABBA is awesome--and play it while you do boring, thankless tasks.
8) Socialize. Put some girlfriend time on your calendar. Try to meet someone for coffee/drinks at least once a week if you can.

It's hard, I know. I was just noticing my own mood starting to slip lately--I think I'm beginning to obsess about the holidays. (And it keeps RAINING here, which does not help :p)

Hope this helps :)

Know Thyself and stay Conscious of Thyself is my motto that works for me.

Quite a few of my family members deal w/ depression including myself. I feel very fortunate though in the fact that at a very young age (literally in middle school) I had a firm enough grasp on what was going on around me and just began reading everything and anything that I could get my hands on about depressiona and all of the different types and billion different ways of how it can manifest itself.

My mom and step dad have had me in and out of counseling since I was elementary aged w/ my last go round being in high school.

I credit my mom being so very open w/ me about her bouts of depression as well as the other family members, and helping me explore things and talking w/ me.

From all of my reading and discussions w/ my mom I really got to know myself and my triggers. In my early 20's when I had a bout that I just couldn't seem to pull out of I went to see my primary care physician. I realized that I was getting into a vicious circle w/ and my sleep patterns were changing and I was sleeping less becuase of it. The Dr. prescribed a low dose anti-depresant (Amitryptiline) w/ a sleepy side effect that I took right before bed. W/in a month I was back to myself and stopped taking it.

Since then I watch myself carefully during the Fall and Spring season changes (much better now) and my sleep patterns. If it starts to get interrupted on a regular basis due to stress or whatever I pay attention. I give myself not quite 1 month (28days tobe precise) and if my sleep is not back on track I go to the Dr. and ask for Amytryptiline and then stop after a month. Somewhere along the line yrs. ago I'd heard that if your sleep patterns (brain waves during sleep) stay changed for 1 month then that becomes the brains 'new norm' for sleeping so that's why I always gave it just up to a month to self correct. A sleep Dr. that I worked w/ sometimes confirmed that 1 month thing.

I never spoke openly about my struggles w/ depression until a few yrs ago when the Dr. that I worked for told me that his son had committed suicide after college graduation. My depression came up in the course of the conversation and he asked me how I was able to pull through it. I told him that I watched my family fall apart because of it and other addictions and vowed that it would not happen to me. I made a promise to myself that the day I couldn't keep in mind somebody else 1st should I ever want to end it all is the day that that I needed serious help and would check myself in. I knew to draw a concrete line about when I knew I couldn't do it myself and needed more intense help. Everyone's brain is wired differently.

My mom says that while other people find me difficult she says I'm a survivor and that's what it took for me to survive. No apologies needed she says.

My DH is on paxil for depression, and has been for years. You would never know he was depressed, unless you knew him very well. He has tried numerous times to get off of it, but always realizes that he needs it. (His is physical.)

DS is on Pristiq. I have a love/hate relationship with it. It is a newer drug, and while I think it has helped DS (without it he probably would have committed suicide), it has a very short half-life, which means the 'discontinuation symptoms' are severe. You also can not cut this pill, and it doesn't come in smaller sizes. So, I don't know if he'll ever be able to get off. I would not recommend this drug to anyone!

That all being said, if you ever do decide to get on an AD, Prozac is a good one because it has a longer half-life (I'm learning all about these things).

However - if you are not suicidal, I would recommend cognitive behavior therapy. It is generally a 12 week program by yourself or in a group and it teaches you ways to cope and to think differently.

For example, you write down your thoughts and pick them apart to see if they are rational or just irrationally negative. Another is that you write down things you 'had' do vs. things you liked to do every day, to make sure you have some pleasure in the day.

I'm over-generalizing it, of course, but I would definitely look into CBT. Good luck!

Yep. Been dealing with it for years. Had severe depression (became suicidal) 20 some years ago, but have been literally up and down with it since. I've been off & on different meds, tried for a long time to do therapy only, but it just didn't work for me (good BS meter too). Tried natural remedies, light therapy, yada yada. Finally just gave up and said dammit...I CANNOT do this on my own and accepted that it's part of me and I've been on Celexa for a few years now.

My 2 DD's, my mom, and my sister also are on various AD's. My ex had bad depression, too, so I do believe there may be a genetic predisposition. But I've finally come to accept that I've got a chemical imbalance, just like I've got other congenital health issues, and don't think it's something I can just overcome if I work on it hard enough.

Tomorrow gave excellent advice...change of scenery, even if briefly, is a BIG help for me.

Jen, I hear you loud and clear. I have struggled throughout my life with feeling as though I'm somehow different than others. I've watched others just seem to sort of "perk along" through life, consistently demonstrating an outward appearance of being chipper and optimistic, and while I sometimes reach that level, I'm much more often somewhere between feeling a slight simmering happiness and being down in the dumps. I was on an antidepressant (Effexor) for years (and am still astounded at how amazingly easy it was to get a doctor to prescribe the meds for me, based upon one simple sentence to her: "I feel depressed sometimes"). The meds "helped" in that they made me feel more evened out, less up and down - but I also started to feel as though they kept me in an ever-so-slightly zombiefied state, so a couple of years ago I went off them. (One of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, but that's a different story.)

I'm realizing more and more that I possess a certain temperament, and it is what it is. I'm not Polly Positive, I'm more often Nelly Negative. And it's ok. I find that when I recognize myself for who I am and allow myself to simply be, the depression is far easier to deal with. I'm reaching a place in my life where I feel it's actually ok to have a black cloud floating over my head. Sometimes that cloud's a little heavier and darker than other times, and when it is, I make it a point to be extra kind to myself. I know that I've beat myself up for years trying to force my temperament into a mold where it simply did not fit. I think we can try to "fix ourselves" into living as we perceive others do, but the bottom line is that we are what we are. And sometimes there'a a tremendous amount of liberation in simply not fighting it.

I do find that when I'm making my best dietary choices and exercising regularly, I'm more positive and focused. That said, I still realize that I'm never going to be the person who is UP most of the time, because that's just not how I'm wired.

Of course, this is my own personal experience, and I would never suggest to someone else who felt that they needed help to crawl out of the doldrums that they not seek help in whatever form worked best for them.

"... it's actually ok to have a black cloud floating over my head. Sometimes that cloud's a little heavier and darker than other times, and when it is, I make it a point to be extra kind to myself....there'a a tremendous amount of liberation in simply not fighting it. "

Yes, yes, yes. Grief is normal. If life makes you sad, then allow yourself to be sad. I've had depressions off and on, some mild, some bad ones, always situational. Some days you get by only by thinking "right foot, left foot, right foot, left foot..." It helped to tell myself I needed to be sad. The depression was a logical, normal reaction to a situation, and it's okay. I would then become very self-nurturing, focusing on completing simple tasks and patting myself on the back lavishly for doing them: doing a load of laundry or paying some bills. The little things matter, afterall : doing small tasks; small kindnesses; brief friendly exchanges with people. They add up.

Trailrunner wrote the most wonderful thing in the Weight Loss Over 40 thread, and I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her here:

" I have a dear dear friend who showed me 2 parallel lines. We were talking about change and how difficult it is. Many folks get overwhelmed as they think they need to change a multitude of things and then you get mired down in feeling unsuccessful as it is so hard to change more than one thing. With the 2 lines he showed that even changing 1 line by one degree on the paper , over time the 2 lines do diverge and you no longer have parallel lines. It takes time but you only start with one change. Just one. Just for today... "

I so appreciate hearing your experiences. It does help to know that others have/are going through the same thing. Thanks so much.

I do think there is a very strong genetic pattern of depression in my family-- my brothers, mom, grandma,uncle and cousins all have problems with anxiety and depression. Even further back in the family tree, I know at least two of my great aunts committed suicide. However, what's going on in my life also seems to have a big effect.

I do function. I have always forced myself to take care of my responsibilities. I'm sure most people have no idea how bad it is sometimes. I work hard to hide it. My friends do know, but I fear wearing them out being Debbie Downer all the time, so I try to downplay it.

I have tried Prozac and Celexa. I have been taking both Wellbutrin and Celexa for a while now. I don't like taking AD's, but I've just resigned myself to "better living through chemistry"! I don't want to spend my whole life being miserable, and AD's do help.

Like AuntJen, I do feel that I am by nature reserved, maybe cynical or pessimistic. I am happy sometimes. But even at my happiest, I have never been the perky, sunshiny, optimist. It's true that I just need to accept that. Life just seems so easy for some people. I get overwhelmed about how painful and sad so many things in life are.

Recently, I'm just feeling that heavy, fatigued, lack of energy, no motivation feeling. I had a four-day weekend last week, and I didn't do anything. No projects, nothing social, very minimal housework. I just wanted to sit. I am worn out. I work four ten hour days in a stressful job, with a 45 minute commute each way. I have a high maintenance 4 year old. My relationship with DH is up and down. I had surgery at the beginning of October, and then we got the flu, then colds, and it seems we've been sick ever since.

I used to love the holidays, and now I kind of dread them. My beloved grandfather passed away five years ago just before Christmas, and my cousin was killed in an avalanche last year on Christmas Eve. Family occasions are very different now.

Anyway, I will try your suggestions. Thanks again---
Jen

Are we talking about the blues here, or about diagnosed clinical depression?

When depression is caused by biological or chemical imbalances in the brain, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to "cure" it with positive thoughts and talk, just as it is impossible to cure cancer or heart disease that way. I suppose those things help with management, and probably the actual cause of depression is not known, but it would be pretty hard to just pull yourself out of a depression. I know no one here is suggesting that, and I know prescription drugs have serious side effects.

I'm in way over my head here, so I probably should skip this thread.

Good points, Sherrmann. I sometimes wonder if what I'm choosing to interpret as my own "special" temperament is a biological or chemical imbalance. And if is is, am I ok with leaving it "untreated"? Is there something "wrong" with me for opting to say, "Well, this is just how I am" - ? As I said above, I had no testing of any kind before my GP simply wrote out a prescription for meds with an offhanded remark along the lines of, "Oh, I have lots of patients who are on this." Hmmmm.

This is a fascinating topic, with what I am sure would be innumerable twists and turns to consider on an individual level.

I've been dealing with depression since adolescence. Right now, I'm in a nondepressed, even "up," period -- I hope it lasts! But who knows? I only tried meds once and didn't like the way I felt on them. I've been to therapy quite a bit, for several years at a stretch. A few times it helped a little bit. The most recent time, I went to someone for two years. I don't know if it helped or if I would have worked through things anyway, but I think just knowing I had that support available helped in its own way.

The things that have always helped:

1. Getting enough sleep. Can't emphasize this enough.
2. Engaging in some kind of activity with an immediate positive outcome -- even things like cleaning the bathroom, or getting my hair cut, or cooking a meal. I think this is because part of being depressed is the feeling that you are powerless against everything, and when you perform a concrete action, no matter how simple, it proves that you are not powerless. Something physical is especially good because exercise makes you feel better in and of itself, but I believe it's part of this area of taking control.
3. Connecting with other people in some way (although as an introvert, I don't get energy from this so can't overdo it).

All that said, it sounds like you are dealing with a lot of stressful things in your life, so no wonder you're feeling bad. Even the most happy and optimistic person will feel bad when faced with enough stress and unpleasantness. If there is any way you can adjust any of the things that are getting to you, that might go a long way toward making you feel better.

I suffer from depression, mostly from my PTSD. Therapy never helped me, my favorite is when they tell me "I know what you've been through"-um no you haven't. For me, therapy was only good for pointing out a problem, not solving it.

I tried medication and wasn't a big fan, I wanted to know I was feeling better because of me and not just feeling better because of a pill. I also hated the scary side effects and the way they made me feel, sleepy and unable to care about anything.

My sister is BiPolar and has too be on medication for the rest of her life now, her body is to dependent on it. If her meds are incorrect in dosage she can end up in the hospital with slashed wrists. She's doing better now so hopefully they have worked out her meds.

I try to be careful with how much I allow myself to be sad and depressed, as negative thoughts, depression, and stress can all break down the body and start to cause health problems.

For me the best thing that's worked so far is E.F.T. (Emotional Freedom Technique) it is a non needle form of emotional acupuncture you can do on yourself. It just changes the way I emotionally and physically feel about things, it's weird.

I do agree that everyone has to find what works best for them, as we are all different.

"Thoughts are like drops of water. When I think the same thoughts over and over again, I am creating this incredible body of water. First, I have a puddle, then I may get a pond, and as I continue to think the same thoughts over and over again, I have a lake and finally an ocean. If my thoughts are negative, I can drown in a sea of my own negativity. If my thoughts are positive, I can float on the ocean of life." -Louise Hay

" I had a four-day weekend last week, and I didn't do anything. No projects, nothing social, very minimal housework. I just wanted to sit. "

Good for you. Hope it was restorative. Sounds like you needed the peace.

Who says we have to be busy and productive 24/7? We're not ants. We're complex creatures. We need down time for maintenance.

I think escape from burdens and problems is much underestimated as a therapeutic tool. Losing yourself in a novel, an ipod, a movie, or even Garden Web -- giving yourself a mental break every now and then from constant ruminating over problems is good.

Who says we have to be busy and productive 24/7? We're not ants. We're complex creatures. We need down time for maintenance.

I completely agree. My dad, who is 70 years old and now retired, was always a high achiever, both at work and at home. It's funny how he now seems to value just doing nothing though. Last weekend I was talking to him on the phone, still in my pajamas (and oh, horrors! - it was after noon!), and I made the comment that I needed to go get my clothes on and do something productive. His response was, "You might want to re-think that!" It's like he was reminding me to give my permission to simply be, and not worry so much about the "gotta do!" stuff. There really is beauty to be found in just existing. Sitting and looking out the window or gazing around one's home and feeling at peace is so incredibly restorative. I actually intend to do more of that sort of thing.

kgwlisa mentioned fish oil, and for me it has been as effective as the Wellbutrin I was taking - without any side effects. I started on Prozac about 15 years ago and found its effect remarkable at first. I started looking forward to life again. However, after a few years I sort of got that numbed out feeling, and it was a real libido killer. My doctor switched me to Wellbutrin, which I took for several years. The libido problem reversed itself, but the Wellbutrin left me feeling slightly anxious most of the time. I had a hard time driving on the freeway while on it, and if I did need to do a lot of freeway driving I would quit taking it for a while.
A few years ago I started taking high doses of fish oil, because I had read that it was good for weight loss. After about a week or two I noticed that I was in a much better mood - it wasn't an effect that I was looking for, so I dont think that it was just a placebo effect. So I did some internet research and found that there were quite a few studies showing improved mood with fish oil. The recommended dosage seems to be at least 1000 mg of EPA (one of the omega 3s in fish oil) daily. I quit taking the Wellbutrin altogether, and reported to my doctor (who is a psychiatrist) what I was doing. He thought it was great, and has read the studies showing mood improvement with fish oil.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fatty Acid Trip

AuntJ, no! You don't need "treatment" for fully experiencing the vicissitudes of life. We live in such a "psychologized" society that we have been trained to go where you are going with that thought. You, my dear, are quite normal, alive and human.
AB Curtiss's book is eloquently written, & it is hard to single out a quote from it, but if I may:

"We seem to have no idea in this soceity how to handle fear & pain as a normal part of life. If we have hunger pangs, we don't go all hurt & helpless. We just go get something to eat. How come when we hurt emotionally, we don't trust that we need to be up & doing something about that? Instead, we believe that we need to fix the pain itself before we can do anything. Imagine what would happen to our body if, instead of feeding ourselves when we were hungry, we kept deadening the hunger pangs, dousing them with chemicals, & pummeling them w/electric shocks. We would soon starve to death.

And that is what's happening to our character. Instead of fixing our lives, we're fixing the pain that alerts us to the fact that there is something wrong with how we are living our lives. ...until we do that work, our spirit, self, or soul, is going to give us holy hell. We can carry this hurt around to diferent doctors & therapists begging them to do something. And the best they will be able to do for us is write long lists of our symptoms,which they will keep in a big book on their desks. They can drug us into oblivion too, but they can't really help us, thank goodness! Because in our ignorance, we are asking to cured of ourselves, rather than doing the life's work we need to be doing in order to BECOME ourselves. It is only our problems & pain that can accomplish this by forcing us to do that work. Life itself will select our battlefields for us."

AJ, you strike me as a person of depth & character, who is committed to living on the "frontlines." Most philosophers of the past, in contrast to today's "talking heads" valued suffering & pain as a tool for growth, & saw no value in eliminating it from the human landscape. That is how our parent's & grandparent's generations approached things too.

Oh, JLC, I'm so glad you got so many responses! I saw your question early this morning but didn't have time to respond, so I'm thrilled that there so many others reached out.

I'm 44 and have struggled with depression on and off since I was diagnosed with it as a teenager. It seems to come and go and is definitely tough in the autumn when there's less light outside and everything is so dead-looking!

I had terrible postpartum depression and only opened up to one friend who had already been very honest about her own ppd. My female OB/GYN put me on Effexor XR after only asking a few questions even though she fully knew I was breastfeeding my son. After I started the drug I read the small print and found it was NOT recommended for breastfeeding mothers as nothing was known about transmission. I hated that drug and stopped taking it after 7 weeks of terrible nighttime dreams (full-color action/adventure movies in my head all night long). They exhausted me and I felt like a zombie. I'll always feel terrible guilt for taking it and not knowing what it did to my baby.

This summer, knowing what I'd be facing this fall, I asked my family doctor about possible medications and she listed the usual ones, including Wellbutrin and Prozac. After reading about the side-effects of these, I skipped them all but now wonder if I should have tried something.

It doesn't help that I'm a procrastinator (and I've learned that procrastination is simply FEAR of a bad outcome) and I'm an introvert, so it's hard to open up to others. What does work for me is to set small tasks that I can accomplish, such as housecleaning or sewing projects or 30 minutes of exercise) that I know I can do and feel good about them after accomplishing them.

My husband is familiar with me announcing "girl's day out" when I can go out on a Saturday and shop or do errands all by myself (no 3-year-old in tow). Last winter, after another gray day of snow and clouds, I decided to plan a family reunion for the summertime. My aunt and uncle had hosted them for several years but then moved away from their big farm house. Since we own a big farm house, I decided to host one and DH was fine with it. We had a great time and it was wonderful to see relatives that I hadn't seen in ages. Some cousins drove 7 hours to get here!

[Good for you AuntJen for calling and planning your Thanksgiving dinner!]

Two more things that help (and then I'll shut up!):

1. Fake it til you make it -- I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of my depression but I know if I act happier and reach out to others I end up feeling better about myself.

2. You know who else has helped me? YOU ALL! I so look forward to opening up Gardenweb every day and you all keep my brain full of neat ideas and fresh thoughts. Thank God for Gardenweb and the crazy-fabulous bunch of folks that keeps it exciting and fresh!

Okay, I gotta join in. I'm moderately depressed, situational. I'm still suffering Empty Nest Snydrome. (for ten years!) And since we remodeled the house and added on, it's not "home" to me. I cried quite a bit, I'm on an anti-depressant which made me stop crying. My cheeks were raw from crying. And I've NEVER been a crier!

I've been taking 2 capsules of Fish Oil per my doctor for a healthy heart, but I may have to up it.

I miss us. I miss us all being home and charcoaling on weekends and playing board games and the winner would wear a toy tierra. My teenage boys were quite proud to wear their gag gifts if they won! lol I miss those days terribly.

My oldest son lives a whopping 20 minutes away, my other a couple of hours away. MY DIL is one of my best friends, my gorgeous grandson, I'd run in front of a mac truck to save him.

But I miss us. Don't tell me to find a hobby, I have no motivation or energy. I used to be an avid reader, but now I can hardly concentrate.

I get severe headaches and am prescribed lortab every now and then, and I noticed they give me energy and motivation. I looked it up on the internet and do you know that years ago psychiatrists prescribed this stuff for depression?

Maybe I need to go break an arm. LOL. When I read posts from others who've done a zillion things in one day, I just want to know, WHERE do they get the energy and motivation when they're my age, or is it that they really do lead a perfect life?

I used to pooh pooh depression when I was younger. Karma came back and bit me GOOD.

One more thing, if you're still reading this far, both my parents were go getters. My mom worked fulltime and was a born decorator, she didn't need any classes, she had the eye for decorating. My dad was always active.

So where did I get this gene from? Even my brother is a go getter. Maybe I was adopted. :)

I know that there are chemical imbalances in my makeup but I also feel that I manage it very well w/o meds 95% of the time. But that's just me.

I like what Jen said about temperment. I do flip on a dime but I stopped being so hard on myself for perfection. While my bouts of depression never fully go away - they have become much better and easier to get through.

Honestly the presence of DH helps so much. He is the exact opposite of me. When he sees that I'm beginning to berate myself and I styart getting 'worked up' he knows that eventually I'll say something to him to 'formally que him in'. When I tell him that I'm feeling wild inside and apologize for being so unpredictable he tells me that I'm passionate and that it's okay. If it doesn't pass soon we'll go to the Dr.s. That seems to calm me enough to bring me back to reality and assess where I'm at.

I thank God everyday for the blessing of sending me DH. I truly have been so much better since being w/ him. I don't mean to make it sound so simple and sappy but for me the love and undersatnding of DH really has helped to tame the beast inside.

That and admitting it and not feeling ashamed.

yup. Better living through chemistry I always say.

Not you too, Cooper B?

I don't know if I get depressed but I get the blues sometimes. I always know why I am down, and I refuse to play ping pong with a therapist. But will take a valium in a NY minute, thank God for chemicals is all I can say.
That's just me, I know a lot of people that feel the need to talk to professionals and I certainly respect that.

What can I say? at least now the science shows depression is a chemical imbalance and that it often runs in families. It does in mine.

Oh, oakley. I could have written your post! Well, except for the remodeling, unfortunately. 'I miss us' is the perfect way to express it. I could have cried when I read what you wrote. My mother was a go-getter, too, and nothing/no one was good enough or did enough. My DS who turns 30 on the 30th this month lives nearby and I think I am fine with that, but DH and I do nothing any more. There is a reason for that over which I have no control,and it is what it is, but I wish I had the old him back-it is sometimes like living with a ghost and I feel he could make different choices that would help. Oh well. I can't seem to get motivated to do anything either. My house is a mess (I have never lived with such clutter before), can't seem to get enthusiastic about the yard which seems like too much to handle, my desk at school is so piled with paperwork that I wonder if I will ever get caught up. My diet stinks and I have no desire to do anything about it. I am tired all the time. Even brushing my teeth is an effort. Not one for therapy either. At my annual check-up, my doctor actually broached the subject of AD meds. He and I know mine is situational as well, but he really feels something might help. I said let's wait six months. Maybe I'll try the fish oil. I am leaning toward the "better living through chemistry" route -maybe I'll even go before the six months is up. Walking the pups and being with my kiddoes at school are the only things that I enjoy now. Well, that and as folkvictorian says, everyone here at GW, so thanks all. I wish us all joy and laughter.

I have struggled with depression also for the last few years, so I empathize with everyone who has. Mine was brought on by the addiction of my oldest child, and it progressed to the point that I became suicidal in the summer of 2006. I have been on a few different ad's, and for me the best one has been Celexa. It doesn't make me feel weird, and I have had no sexual side effects.

I must add that I went to therapy for two years, but by far the most important help to me has been a 12-step program called Al-Anon. It literally saved my life because there I no longer felt alone, judged, ashamed, guilty, or different because my child has a disease called alcoholism.

Finding a support group where you can share your deepest thoughts and feelings without judgment is very healing, as is step work to uncover your true self.

Thank you for being courageous enough to discuss this topic which affects so many of us and/or our family members, and I hope that you can find the way our of your darkness.

roobear forgot to mention I really like that quote. thanks

Oakley, I am a new empty nester and I *really* understand. I've been sorting though boxes because our upstairs remodel is finally coming down the home stretch. I am finding every single thing I ever saved of the kids. I've been sorting through them while taking a trip down memory lane. I told my BIL how sad it made me feel because I missed my kids. He totally gets it. He was a single Dad. I have enjoyed sorting and organizing and putting things away in a more permanent way. The dresser I kept all their stuff in is leaving home after so many years...

I got rid of our old roll top desk, a corner computer desk from our son's old room, three bookcases and an antique bed (all is staying in the family though) and I couldn't be more pleased.

I think we need those ADD pills that speed us up. Why do they waste them on kids?

One thing that I am excited about is the room upstairs filled with so many boxes etc. that I couldn't even walk in is well on it's way to being nice. I built a ceiling to floor library from Ikea and sorted through all my beloved books. I have books from my childhood, all my kids books and even a very old book that belonged to my grandmother ('Uncle Tom's Cabin').

My new library is making me happy. I want to add another section. I have the kid's favorite stuffed bunny sitting next to the 'A B C Bunny book' and Max's old Curious George monkey sits next to the 'Curious George' book series. It is so nice to finally have a permanent display that is large enough to hold everything. My library ladder is my own old step chair from when I was a kid. It's cool looking and still sturdy enough to use as a step ladder chair.

I guess for me, I must force myself to get started and then I am OK. I feel so much better getting rid of stuff and just keeping what is important to me. I am getting back the boy's bunk beds from the grandkids and will put them in the library guest room. They were very high quality set from Ethan Allen and will be perfect in that room. The set is maple and the library is 'black/brown'.

I've made lots of trips to the thrift store and even one trip to the dump in the past couple weeks. It feels good to feel excited about making a place for everything I love and getting rid of things that no longer work.

That antique bed has lived with me for 42 years. I am declaring it a grown up and it's moving out to live with one of the kids it helped raise. LOL!

When I am depressed, I usually know why. Maybe I am not listening to myself or I am sad over a situation, etc. I know I am lucky. It certainly does run in families. My DD can get depressed. Her father's family really struggles with depression.

I've been taking 2 capsules of Fish Oil per my doctor for a healthy heart, but I may have to up it.

Definitely check how much EPA is in each capsule. The "standard" fish oil capsules only have 180 mg each, so you would need to take 6 a day to get 1000mg daily.

I think that too many of us (me included) equate the ability to do a lot or being a "go getter" with success and happiness. It could be that some people that are constantly "doing" are actually "running" from something. I don't like to be over scheduled. I like to be able to have the freedom to spontaneously join a friend for a cup of coffee if she needs to talk. I like that I usually have time to take a call from my daughter when she just needs to vent. I don't like the phrase "in our busy lives", if the "busy" part is just "busy work" that doesn't add to our lives.

Texanjana! I just now carefully read your post and I feel sorry I didn't see it earlier.

Hey! Our kids aren't us. You aren't a failure because your son is addicted. This is life! Seems we get one to be proud of and one to humble us. I have a friend who has been leveled by both of her kids. One is in prison and the other is a drug addict. I've known her my entire life and I can't point a finger. She always did her best. She was a loving Mom. There has been other family members (both sides) with addictions but my friend seemed to skip it, until her kids.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. You did your best. You are doing your best. One hundred times on the chalk board. Now. Get to it. Write it over and over until your brain can attend to your heart. This is a situation where letting go all control *is* being the best mom. Mom of the year, even. Mom where few people know what being a real mom means, even.

In 1969, I leveled my parents and my social standing by becoming a 14 year old daughter/friend/girl/whore/slut who was pregnant. Well, I wouldn't change my life for all the tea in China.

Maybe your son is learning valuable lessons too. Maybe he will reinvent rehab services (It is really needed). All life is valuable and not everyone attends the same schools. Chin up! It is going to work out. I'd bet your son has many great qualities besides his addiction. This is a crazy world.

I am sorry I missed your post because what you are saying is important. Know I do not judge you and I really care. Be strong. There is much I can share about my oldest son but right now, *you* need support. You are not alone. Don't for a moment believe this little problem is going to get you down. We are far too strong here for this little speed bump!

Max is working in rehab right now. It is important addicts be permitted to strand alone. They hate being failures. When the family steps back, your son can step forward. Allow him to be a success and know it may not involve you. Do not take it personal. It is not about you. Keep up with your life. If you haven't, get a life immediately. If your son thinks he has done you in, he doesn't stand a chance at recovery. Guilt is part of the illness. Get rid of it.

Your son needs to see that he is not responsible for your condition. He needs to see that your strength doesn't come from him. He needs to know you are OK enough so he may step into getting the kind of help he needs for him. (Time to step back and watch).

It will work out. I can't even edit this. Sorry for that but in these situations I look at my keyboard when I type and don't look at the screen. I likely repeat myself over an over and re explain. Thank god I am a worse typer than talker. This is a great time to be my HD girl friend because you would really hear it otherwise.

Thanks for the tip on the fish oil, I do know the individual amount fatty acids aren't listed anymore.

Cyn and Gold, boy, those babybooks sure didn't give us advice on empty nest syndrome, did they? One time my mom made a derogative comment to me when the boys were little, she said "you all are too close." But she wasn't a very maternal person either. :)

When the first one left for college, I came home and bawled my eyes out, knowing he'd be home the following weekend. He drove up, I went to the car, and started crying, he held me in his arms and said, "It's okay, I'm home." Awww.

I told my SIL to be prepared when they took their eldest daughter to college the following year. She said when they were driving home, they had to pull OFF the highway and cry! LOL!!!

I so appreciate reading all of your above stories, thank you all for being so candid. I think different levels of depression are more widespread than we think.
I've known people who had a full blown depression, burnouts, call it what you want ; you cannot function at all .

I had a year of feeling depressed, and I fought it continuously ; my goal everyday was to get showered , dressed and put on makeup, it could take me 2 hours to get to that point but for me it was the ultimate goal, the proof that I was going to be OK....... We were living in Denver then and I was away from friends and family, it was easier for me not to tell anyone; I hate having to report progress and talk endlessly on the phone.
I consulted a few professionals but got no meds. Sometimes I wish I had tried some meds to ease the process.

This is a good thread as far as sharing and not feeling like anyone is "not normal" in their feelings of depression.
This is also a good way to evaluate if you are sinking to a place too low.

This poem is a tribute to the survival of the human spirit in the face of all adversity, to our capacity to continue living even when it would seem easier to lie down forever & let life go on w/out us. It is a tribute too, to the way we can support one another unknowingly through the smallest, apparently insignificant acts. It is a reminder that anything & everything can matter in this world in which everyone is joined through the current of life to everyone else.

It is not empathy that Laux is seeking in this poem, it is immersion. She is asking us to immerse ourselves in the full experience of our humanity. With hope & gratitude, she listens to the big, breathing world, & steps back from the edge willing to bear the weight of her own pain & the gravity of existence.

FOR THE SAKE OF STRANGERS
by Dorianne Laux

No matter what the grief, its weight,
we are obliged to carry it.
We rise and gather momentum,the dull strength
that pushes us through crowds.
And then the young boy gives me directions
so avidly. A woman holds the glass door open,
waits patiently for my empty body to pass through.
All day it continues, each kindness
reaching toward another-a stranger
singing to no one as I pass on the path, trees
offering their blossoms, a retarded child
who lifts his almond eyes and smiles.
Somehow they always find me, seem even
to be waiting, determined to keep me
from myself, from the thing that calls to me
as it must have once called to them-
this temptation to step off the edge
and fall weightless, away from the world.

So much wisdom and support here, I am thankful to all of you as we struggle through this life together!

barb5, your well written post touched on a number of important points: children's problems as the worst stressors, recognizing thought distortions and correcting them, guilt for less than perfect children, meds at least helping one to sleep, trying a number of therapists before finding the right one. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Hope you are feeling better these days.

That bottom of the gorge feeling: yes to that. At my worst, I felt I was in the bottom of a well with glass sides. I was in a situation where therapy & meds were not an option. I spent months feeling like I was crawling out of the well by my finger nails, an inch at a time (I was determined to do so, hence the bit I wrote about lavish self-praise for small things). The day when I felt I had crawled over the edge at the top was like light and cool air and a chance to catch my breath after all the effort.

Stinky, I want to thank you especially for the poignant words you've shared here. You have touched my heart deeply, and I thank you. You've given me a new way of looking at things and I feel like I kinda just want to crawl off by myself and ponder these things for awhile. ;-)

Oh MAN, I wrote a huge post early this morning, but it's not here!

Thank you to all of you. I truly appreciate each one of you for sharing your experiences-- it's like talking to a group of girlfriends. :)

Barb- you are so kind. My son is doing better than he was, but I still have some concerns. I don't know if he has OCD, if it was PANDAS, or if he's going through a strange phase or having some anxiety. You are exactly right that it has been very hard on me. I just don't know if I'm doing the right things, or what the future brings for him, and it breaks my heart.

Stinky-- what an amazing poem. It captures just how I often feel. Thank you.

Hugs to you all,
Jen

I've written extensively here over the years about my battles with bipolar-type II depression (a form of depression only recently given much credence at all), self-harm and suicidality. (Go to my "Clippings" page and read the first posting on it to get the most recent one.) It's miles beyond being "sad" - "this is so horrible I want to die so I don't have to endure this anymore" sometimes doesn't even quite describe it. It's been nearly lifelong, we KNOW it is genetic, and in the last 15 years it's been exacerbated by my other health problems. (Chronic pain tends to cause depression, or worsen preexisting cases.)

Antidepressants, for the most part, made things worse, which is typical for BP - mood stabilizers (usually anti-epilepsy meds and some of the atypical antipsychotic class) were what I needed. I was left untreated for many years and then mistreated, written off as having "treatment-resistant depression" because I didn't respond, or responded poorly, to the dozen or so ADs I cycled through, for several more after that.

For a lot of people, a SHORT period on an AD, properly managed (and a primary care physician is rarely competent to properly manage a psychiatric disorder), is the rope that helps them pull themselves out of the black hole so they can take other steps like talk therapy, exercise, dietary changes, lifestyle changes, etc.

I have never found talk therapy to be that useful, although some people need nothing else to feel better. Frankly, by the time the end of the session rolled around, I'd usually forgotten what I/we were talking about at the beginning. Not to mention the useless "so, Mari, what do you think about that?" Hey, for two hundred bucks a pop, how about YOU tell ME what you think? Ditto for light therapy, it just gave me a headache.

I had to stop taking the fish oil temporarily as I was supposed to have surgery (cancelled due to insurance idiocy) and it does have some blood-thinning effects. I've gone back on it but it does take a while to kick in. Here's the thread which has info about dosing and products.

DH has been incredibly supportive. He's had his own (thankfully brief) bouts of situational depression and anxiety so he has some clue.

golddust said: "I think we need those ADD pills that speed us up. Why do they waste them on kids?"

They're part of my "arsenal", and last time I checked I am not a kid. :-) I don't take them often (the "crash" can get nasty if overused) but they help give me enough stamina and mental clarity to get through certain tasks/events. That's as much for the CFS/FM as it is for the mood disorder, though.

oakleyok wrote: "Thanks for the tip on the fish oil, I do know the individual amount fatty acids aren't listed anymore."

Yes they are, at least on the better products. It's right in the "nutritional information" box at the very least - mine (CardioStat) says very clearly in about 12 places on the box that 2 capsules contain 1080mg EPA. If the only the total fish oil content is listed (common with cheaper products), bypass the product.

I've actually been clawing my way out of a pretty nasty bout (they do come from time to time despite the Lamictal, as does the hypomania which manifests as extreme irritability and anxiety) that has lasted most of this summer and fall. Has not been fun.

Stinky that poem was just beautiful and something I desperately needed to hear at this very moment.

Jen,

I am so happy to hear that your son is improved.

Sounds to me as if you have done all the right things.

Your DS is lucky to have such a smart, responsive mom.

JM, thank you for sharing your story. What's great is BPD is now coming to the forefront, and I think it's great that some of the Hollywood actors are coming out and saying they have BPD. Carrie Fisher is one.

But you know what is REALLY depressing? Those depression commercials for anti-depressants! lol. If I'm feeing down and one of those commercials come on, which is about a 100 times a day, it makes me feel worse. Anyone else notice this?

AuntJen, thanks for sharing that. Glad there was food for thought there!

Jlc & New Dawn, so glad y'all were touched by the poem.

Kinda, BUT, it made me realize that hey the gray( and not a pretty one) is back again so do something girlfriend! So I talked to my primary care and now I have more good days than bad.

Johnmarie, I have choose not to post because as a BPD sufferer you are not sure quite where you fit. People who are depressed without BPD falsely envy the highs without realizing the pain and danger that can accompany them. Somehow I know you understand.

What I find particulary disturbing about this post is the comments that all you need to do is pick yourself up by the bootstraps, that depression can be treated by positive thoughts with a side dose of fish oil. Major clinical depression is not, and never should be compared to "the blues" or the "sadness" that is expected to accompany negative events we all seem to share in our lives. Clinical depression is a MEDICAL CONDITION and quite a dangerous one if left untreated. In my mid twenties I was one of the strongest woman my friends knew yet I held a secret. Afraid of "the label" of being mentally ill, I came way too close to taking my own life. I thank God and a great psychiatrist, with yes, his bag of pills for being here today.

I think this is where there is a great misconception, that depressed people are that way because there are crisis' in their life that they cannot handle. I had no "crisis", I had a high paying job I loved, my own home,enough men to fill my time, and true galfriends galore. So I don't know what the heck I was supposed to be sad about. Yet there was something too painfull to even put into words going on. Again, I thank God, for it had to be his hand that directed me, to walk into a local ER and say that I didn't understand why, but I knew if I went home that night I would kill myself.

It doesn't matter what name you place on someone's pain, but if someone is reaching out for help, NO ONE should discount their need for help - in whatever shape or form that help may take. If pills work for you - great. If it's therapy - go for it. If you are not getting better you just might need to find another doctor. Unfortunately the stigma of Mental Illness can hold us back from the very sources that can help us. I am actually finding this discussion disturbing. If someone had a serious medical condition, like cancer, wouldn't it be wrong to tell them to tough it out, that it is all in their mind and that seeking help is not necessary?

I only hope that these posts just might trigger someone who is not getting better to reach out for the help they need. Friends and family can be a great support, but if you had a medical condition such as cancer, you would never expect them to give you treatment.
Unless you have been there, it is almost impossible for someone to understand just how painful a clinical depression can be.

It's been awhile since I've been on GW. Made one of those "get 'er done" list and "less online time" resolutions several months ago. : ) But while googling for rooms in an aqua color I came back to GW and all your brilliant minds. Then thought I'd check conversations to see how some of you were doing. Then saw this thread and had to share my loss.

Last March I lost my dear brother. He was bi-polar and took his life a week after my birthday. One bullet to the heart. In his teens he started using drugs and later became an alcoholic. He finally quit everything but was depressed for most of his adult life. He was on drug therapy for the bi-polar, then lost his job and went off the meds due to money issues. He did not share this with me or I would have paid for them in a heart beat.

I miss him so much and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of him and some funny story I wish I could share with him. Or just give him a big hug. : ( The holidays were only bearable because this tragedy has brought my sister and I closer than we've been in many decades. She also had drug/alcohol problems for many years, and lived a lifestyle that I would not allow myself nor my sons to be a part of, so we grew apart. Things are so much better now but I'll never stop wishing my brother were part of the new closeness she and I now share. The irony of it all, right?

I wish I could hug all of you and tell you how special you are to so many of us. I look at the names of the posters and while I don't recognize a few names those I do know are all posters who have shared so much wonderful advice and support to so many over the years I've been a GW member, myself included. You are valued and appreciated deeply. And loved, yes, LOVED! Even in cyberland! : )

Bear Hugs, Diana

Diana, I am deeply sorry for the loss of your brother. My sister also is bipolar, and has to contend with the rollercoaster of emotions despite years of meds/psych intervention. She states she always feel like the rug is being pulled out from under her. What an incredible life-long struggle. Sending cyber-hugs your way.

Diana,

I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. I can only imagine how difficult the holidays must have been for you.

Jana

Diana,
I, too, am so sorry about your brother. Lynn's post was so right on about depression - it is not the blues or feeling crummy. It seriously has an effect on people's lives. Everyone wants to "check out" of life at some point or another (not talking actual suicide) but those of us that live with that thought or even have had the suicide thoughts, it is a struggle.

I can look back at so many decisions I have made in my life that were ruled by my depression. I was a very social teenager but I would "check out" for days ~ sleeping and reading in my room. I had tons of books & would re-read them when I was down. Sidney Sheldon, Jackie Collins - trash novels but I was trying to escape. Escape what? To see me on the outside, you would think I had it made - successful and supporting family, lots of friends, cheerleader, Ford agency was interested in me moving to NY & I crashed right before I was supposed to go. It always seemed I would find a way to sabatoge myself.

It is a struggle - I do know I am a much better person for it. I feel there is a depth to me that would not have been reached had I not unknowingly suffered for years with depression. I now know my "red flags" and will hop back on an antidepressant in a heartbeat!! Still will take my "mental health days", thou, when life gets overwhelming.

My biggest fear is for my DS. My parents didn't know anything so hopefully, if it does present for him I will be able to recognize it.

Also, for those of you that have been/are depressed look at how many social sciences you took in college. I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me by taking alot of psych, philosophy, sociology, etc.

Smiles:)