Heat pump, oil furnace, and electric furnace

10 years ago

Hi, I am in southwest Pennsylvania and have a 2-story 2000 sq foot home on top of a 1000 sq foot unfinished basement/garage that only gets residual heat from the furnace down there) with Rheem forced-air oil furnace and 10 SEER central A/C (both 15 seasons old). Due to the SIGNIFICANTLY high cost of oil (paying $3000+ for about 900 gallons to heat our home each winter past few seasons), I am planning to very soon replace the A/C with a heat pump (13 or 14 SEER, or higher). Also considering replacing the furnace with an electric furnace, which is the main decision that is holding me from moving ahead. I had been told over the years to avoid electric, but since oil has increased 6-fold! I believe electric is now in play. I guess I need to somehow calculate the cost for 1. heat pump/less oil/somewhat higher electric bills vs 2. heat pump/electric furnace/no oil/much higher electric bills vs 3. current oil furnace. Gas is not a choice since no gas lines are nearby, otherwise I would have a gas furnace and not be asking these questions. I currently pay 4.99cents/Kwh (plus other non-fixed charges based on consumption is 7.32cents/Kwh) thru Sep 2014, though that will likely go up in the future. Should I or should I not be concerned with big spikes in my electric bill, and also about whether the 2nd floor will be as warm in the winter with a heat pump/electric furnace and as cool in the summer with a heat pump. What brands of equipment are recommended? Advice and/or recommendations, please. Thanks!

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Comments (5)

weedmeister
10 years ago
If you get a heat pump, then there is not an electric furnace per se, but electric auxiliary heat. You can still use the oil as auxiliary heat, if we're talking about currently having forced air and not radiators.

Don't go less than 15 SEER.

The heat pump will cool just as well as a normal AC unit. With the higher SEER, you will use much less electricity.

If you remove the oil furnace, don't forget to add in the extra costs of removing the tank and other items.

I will mention that propane could be considered. But I'll wager that the installation of a new tank plus ongoing costs would be prohibitive. Costs of propane usage are usually at or above electricity costs. But it is there when the power fails.
jzbv
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for the feedback (hope others will reply with more)! OK, I guess that sounds right not to state 'furnace' for electric. We really want to eliminate oil even if it is minimally cost-effective or costs a little more. There would be some peace-of-mind since the furnace is 15yrs old and the tank (and line) is underground and likely 60yrs old. Also skyrocketed price of oil will probably stay or go higher. With all my research thus far I ruled out 13 SEER or lower. One upcoming bid is 14.5 SEER. We will not do propane, so it is heat pump with current oil or new electric. And wouldn't any heating fail with an electrical outage since the fan needs electricity (unless one has a generator)? Also, any advice on recommended brands? I think one guy is going to offer York and Goodman and the other guy Carrier (but there are so many brands out there and I am finding a LOT of unsatisfied reviews).
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Hi, we have similar situation to research. We are looking into upgrading our HVAC and have question as to go with Heat Pump with Electric or Oil backup. Background: Central Massachusetts, 20 year old house, 3000sqft typical two story colonial with central forced hot air oil furnace and AC. Currently 5ton AC and heating with 80% efficient and I think 110000BTU oil furnace. Which might be more than necessary. No natural gas available. Oil or Propane. 200Amp main panel. Electric rates are about 11.39cents per KWH. Oil rates are about $4.00 dollars per gallon. AC is only two months or so, heating is more important. So we are thinking of choosing a low temperature Heat Pump with good HSFP, SEER is less important. Questions: We were wondering if for the price of electric and oil if we can move to electric as backup in this area (New England). Would there also be any re-sale issues later too? Our dealer is also recommending Byrant 280A 5 Ton low temperature with 20KW, which we might request to bump up to the three stage 24KW heat strips because we keep warm temperature (70F). Thank you for any help you can give.
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SIMPLY Certainly, this can be done successfully. I assume nat gas is not available. Here are some factors that should be taken into consideration in your decision making. What is your electric rate? What is your cost of oil/gallon? What is the eff of the new oil furnace you are considering? Finally I would compare propane costs with a high eff propane furnace vs the cost of heating oil with a high eff oil furnace. I am attaching an energy calculator. IMO Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Calculator
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Again, thanks guys for the info and site. My seasonal rate posted above was stated on the monthly bill but if I understand you correctly I need to divide my last monthly bill by the number of kWh used for that period : $121.21 / 1096 kWh used = 0.11 cents If so then no need to be too jealous ;) I too understand that today's newer version of HPs are much more efficient and warmer, last month while at a buddies playing poker the terp outside was 45F and his heat pump was too warm for me (therm set up to 76F for cold natured granddad). But how it performs when 25-30F outside is another story and no doubt his ele back-up kicks in then. When my oil man suggested oil back-up he named a "Kurr" (sp?) furnace brand that he says is very oil efficient. New Central AC will most likely be Carrier. You bring up good points about the duct size, these ducts were installed when the house was remodeled back in the late 80s and are well insulated, hopefully the sizes are right for HP. Right now we use 2 oil filled ele radiators in that Fla room at night to save on furnace oil, they do well and not too expensive on the ele bill, probably keep them no matter what route we take. Thanks again for you thoughts and help, have several months to put it all together. I'll save and review your kind advice above. Any particular HP brand you like, Carrier ok?
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I agree 100% with capedude and here's additional reasons to use resistant heat. Eventhough heat pump uses less energy when outdoor tempature permits,the savings isn't great since you are only there a small persentage of the time. Since cabin is only maintained at cool tempature while you are absent heat runs very little. Heat pumps can be severly handicaped or even disabled by snow and freezing rain. If and when it break's down,resistant heat is the simplest system in the world to trouble shoot and least expensive to repair or replace. The average Joe with a little knowledge about volt meters can fix resistant heat but very few diyers know where to begain with heat pumps. You can buy a volt meter for less than $25 in the smallest of towns on a weekend. Refergeration tools are expensive and anywhere they are sold will usually refuse selling to diyers. I believe most experienced hvac people here that can repair any system will agree they would 10 to 1 rather arrive at a remote cabin at 2am and find resistant not working than a heat pump. A well trained tech can often tell freinds or family over the phone how to MacGyver resistant and go on to enjoy their stay but not very often with heat pumps.
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User
10 years ago
IIRC Pennsylvania has some stringent requirements as to removing in-ground oil storage containers/tanks and piping.

You'll need to factor in these abatement costs as compared to retaining oil as a backup heating source.
jzbv
Original Author
10 years ago
salitdawg, thanks for the reply. I plan to leave the tank underground where it is.
User
10 years ago
jzby,

If you no longer will be using the underground tank, I believe you will find you MUST remediate it. I would not be surprised if the Permitting Process will bring this requirement to the fore.

Heat pump, oil furnace, and electric furnace

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Heat pump, oil furnace, and electric furnace

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