The fact that Miele produces its professional units in Czech Republic indeed is a clue.

Anyway I want to remark that Czech republic is no more a "poor" eastern europe country.
The Wall was broken down 20 years ago ... since then they have made gigantic steps.

As a clue, czech made Skoda cars are said to require even less service than their reliable german-made siblings (AUDI and VW).
Also now they look very nice , unlike those ugly vintage models

I went and looked at the local appliance store and all of the new, in box W4840s had a big sticker that said Made in Czech Republic.

Only the W3033 and W3035 said Made in Germany. Hence the higher cost of the stacking units.

If strict and high ISO standards are enforced, I really do not care where an item is manufactured or built.

To be honest it matters little where products are made as long as the labour is stable(ie...not migratory) and that the parent company controls all aspects of production and materials, as Miele does.
Czech Repbublic does not have an advanced economy like western europe but the workforce is stable so there really is not much of a problem. If Miele was contracting the assembly to a company in China(which many American companies do) or Mexico(a lot of workers who are just seasonal), then I would be worried.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds these discussions a little xenophobic (at best). Might just be me (with my particular family history) but things being made in Germany isn't really a selling a point.

When I posted this, it was just to comment on where the vast majority or laundry units originate from. As was said by another member, The Czech Republic does not have an advanced Economy like the Economic Powerhouse Germany, but the workers are skilled and stable in the Czech Republic.

Also, Made in Germany is a HUGE selling point for most of the world. Miele, Bosch, Siemens, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche, Audi...have earned and made their reputation with precise German engineering, materials, skill, durability and prestige.

I get what you are eluding to Caryscott, but 12 dark years in Germany's rich & magnificent 500+ year old history is not fair or reasonable to "shame" Germany. Being German, it is very tiring and saddening, that most of the world focuses on 12 dark years from the 1930's and 1940's. Made in Germany stand for quality and expertise. On a sidenote, Italy (another EU country) has tried several times to get Made in Germany banned from being stated on items, because they say that the minute a customer sees Made in Germany on an item, they know it is most likely better made than from other countries. Germany earned this reputation thru hard work, dedication and quality control!

I would have to agree. Made in Germany does carry a lot of weight in the USA. German made items tend to cost more, but are perceived by most/many people to be superior made products.

While I don't doubt that the products made in the Czech Republic are good products (I do own a W4840 afterall) they will be seen as less of a product than if it is says made in Germany. Even the salesman at the local store I was browsing pointed out that the W3033 and W3035 are better machines from Miele because they are Made in Germany. He said that is why they have a higher price tag even though they are smaller machines.

For what it's worth, I have heard from MANY salemen that the best products come from Germany, hence the higher cost. Most in the USA do NOT regard the 30's-40's as having any kind of impact on the quality of items coming from Germany. Once was a bad social problem that in no way comprimised quality of items coming from Germany.

I am from the Midwest and while I am a fourth generation American, my family roots go back to Germany (And England). We all still hear the stories about how German immigrants built our town, church, etc. There is some pride that comes from knowing a well made item comes from Germany and not from China.

Many in my family associate made in China=Junk. We fully realize that many US companies make items in China and slap their name on them. That is why we seek out Made in USA, Made in Germany and sometimes Made in Japan. All of the latter convey a higher standard of quality.

Miele needs to be careful how they market in the USA. Immer Besser DOES mean something to those in the USA as well.

The historical realities are the historical realities - you can't selectively choose your history. Germany is deservedly known in a variety of respects (some more flattering than others) for its' ingenuity and engineering creativity throughout its' long and complex history. No one is disputing the quality of German engineered appliances but I won't have one in my house (for a complex matrix of reasons not just one). I don't think the nationality of the people manufacturing the appliance impacts on the quality of the design. To be clear I do not think Miele products produced in the Czech Republic are in anyway inferior to the ones made in Germany because Czechs assemble one and Germans another.

"Made in Germany" does carry weight, no doubt about it. My point, simply, is that it's not necessarily true anymore. The Czech Republic makes the world's finest crystal (Waterford is nothing, go look at Bohemia Crystal), quality cars, and high end appliances. To me, anything made in Europe or Japan has a high level of quality.

I still doubt that what the salesperson said was true about the smaller Mieles. When you have a series of products, you price them according to features so that they fit within a pricing matrix. You don't increases the prices on some products, and not others, solely based on where they were manufactured. Just because the W4842 is larger than the W3033/35 doesn't mean it automatically needs to be the highest priced product. There are other aspects to each unit's design.

I never hear anyone talk about not buying Italian cars, perfumes, furniture or not visiting Italy for what Mussolini did. How many of us avoid Japanese cars, electronics or goods because of what Japan did during WWII? Do you not buy American goods, because the USA put Japanese Americans into camps, just because they were of Japanese origin?

No! But it is always ok & accepted to keep punishing Germany for what happened 60+ years ago. Trust me Germany has and is paying dearly for what a group of monsters did. People who were not born during WWII, or even their parents...are paying still as I type this.

I agree, you cannot selectively choose your history, but you cannot blame people that have NO ties, with what happened between 1933 and 1945. It's just not fair! Not buying a German appliance or car, because of what one political group did over 6 decades ago is just insane (and sad)!

I guess the Germans are now immune, like a body after a big disease. They felt guilty for decades and don't forget. Indeed there are some bad signals coming from those very countries and cultures that actually defeated nazism and fascism : just as a clue, google "bishop Williamson".

That said, if you check Miele speedoven manuals, you'll even find a Sabbath programme.

About quality of german appliances, the "anything else is a compromise" motto today is even more true than before. It's not that Miele improved, actually the other two brands that were Miele-comparable now have "disappeared". A BOL Bosch/Siemens washer is today far cheaper than a BOL Miele washer : for sure BSH has not become a charity. I won't talk about AEG quality drop down ... i just say Electrolux should be ashamed of what they have done with this brand.

I know a lot of Germans seeing as I work for a German company(also family owned, much like Miele)...I've worked at a large US multi-national company as well.
The difference in how each company works could not be more different. There are many of these family owned German "large" companies and their main priority internally is actually making a quality product. It does not mean they are perfect...they often have the attitude that they know best from an engineering perspective and don't do the marketing part very well but generally their products are engineered first, marketed second...this is a big difference from American, Asian and even other Germany multi-nationals in that marketing comes first for them.

I'm not sure it makes sense speaking about the politics of the Germans in or around WWII but I can tell you it was not that different in other western countries (look up what the Canadian Prime Minister Mackenzie King had to say about Hitler at the time...he was also a big fan of Eugenics, the precurser to the sterilization program the Nazis had, which by the way they copied from American research and the latest science of the times)...
Time to forgive and forget...Germany is a great country filled with great people...just like North America...

larsi,

Exorcising my right to choose what I wish to purchase in a free market economy is neither punishing or blaming anyone it is simply my prerogative. Your characterization of my mental and emotional state is groundless.

lip2000

I am aware of Canadian history in relation to the Holocaust, of course condoning an action and actually perpetrating it are different. I am also cognizant of the practice of Eugenics in Canada, particularly the horrific practice of sterilizing Aboriginal women. Tommy Douglas was also a huge proponent of Eugenics early on.

I am sure Germany is filled with great people as are China, Mexico and Korea. My disinclination to purchase German made consumer goods is not intended to cast aspersions on Germans anymore than Moon1234 is making a judgement about the Chinese by characterizing their consumer products as "junk".

Larsi, I think you meant to say "exercising" instead of "exorcising". I don't think we need any exorcisms in this thread! :)

To those who dislike German products - have you ever been to Germany or Europe? Anyone who has can quickly see that the quality of products over there are much higher than those over here. I like Miele because they outsource hardly anything. They design and build almost every single component in their machines, giving them a lot of control over the fit, finish, and functionality of the final product. That gives me a lot of confidence over other "brands" like Whirlpool, GE, and Maytag who outsource all of the manufacturing and, with some brands, they don't even make their own product but re-badge another company's product.

My Miele dishwasher is the best dishwasher I ever had. I suspect my Miele W4842 will be the best washing machine I ever had. When it gets here! Now my pedestals are stuck in customs, according to Miele USA, so I have to wait until they arrive before having the units installed.

The people who designed and built my Mieles are not the same people who committed WWII atrocities. Germany is a completely different country, but only those who have been there can truly appreciate that. I love people who make these blanket statements about countries where they have most likely never been!

Anyway, enough of that.

sshrivastava,,,,,,I did not say exorcising. That was caryscott (see above posts).

Caryscott, was addressing me (larsi) and saying he "exorcises his right"!

Larsi knows the difference between exercise and exorcise. Danke Schön :) He he he

I made a typo on a message board on the internet - golly kids there's something that almost never happens. At least it was an amusing typo.

"I love people who make these blanket statements about countries where they have most likely never been!"

What blanket statement was that? All I said was:

"Might just be me (with my particular family history) but things being made in Germany isn't really a selling a point."

What a vicious attack on a nation - what kind of person make such outrageous remarks? Sorry but as statements go it's really pretty benign. Not sure what triggered the hysterical responses but they certainly have been entertaining. Some folks could stand to grow a thicker skin. I got to go the Exorcist is on and I could use some pointers.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds these discussions a little xenophobic (at best). Might just be me (with my particular family history) but things being made in Germany isn't really a selling a point.

I agree. I think a lot of folks forget the whole "German engineering" thing was a marketing ploy developed by VW to sell cars. I was an expat from the U.S. living in Germany and working side-by-side with Germans for several years and was not the least bit impressed (especially by the work ethic). But putting all that aside, keep in mind that German-made VWs consistently rank at or near the bottom of the quality/durability ranking, as do many European cars (BMW is currently the highest, ranking only slightly above average). Note this is not my opinion nor is it based on personal experience, it is based on the actual statistical rankings by companies that do nothing but collect this data (i.e. J.D. Powers, etc.)

I am an experienced engineering consultant in the field of automation, and as a result get many periodicals. One of the most memorable articles I still recall was from one of the industry pubs I get that covers SPC techniques/rules, etc. On the cover they had an older Lexus ES (the cheaper one based on the Camry) alongside a brand-new Mercedes S class (the one with the six-figure price tag). The headline read "why is this 7-year old Lexus more dependable than this brand new Mercedes?"

I've heard that JD Powers ratings have less to do with actual data and more to do with how much money they get from the car manufacturers. But I digress... There is at least one company (Apple) with a very high reputations for quality that manufactures products in China. So while some of us may feel that products made in Germany are of higher quality, the other half of that equation is the company behind the product. You can make great products in China and crappy products in Germany, it just depends on the leadership and philosophy of the company.

I've heard that JD Powers ratings have less to do with actual data and more to do with how much money they get from the car manufacturers.

Companies that rate quality have always been accused of this, especially when they disagree with a certain user's personal opinion. Considering that this info is their sole product, and considering that if such "back-room dealing" actually happened it would have been found out by now by some disgruntled employee or a statistician, then I sincerely doubt such dealings actually occurred, since the company's "product" would be wholly discredited by now and they would be out of business.

You can make great products in China and crappy products in Germany, it just depends on the leadership and philosophy of the company.

I couldn't agree more. And note that the leadership or philosophy of any given company does not stop at a man-made border (i.e. the initial "concern" about Czech manufacturing that started this whole thread).

Some Miele vacuums are made in China

Some Duets are made in Germany

and I admit it ... that not so exciting 24" Inglis frontloader

http://www.inglis.ca/index.php/en/products/laundry/washers/ifr4200

is made in Italy by antoniomerloni.it, the company owner of ASKO. They are also contractors for Whirlpool

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}