Help with heat pump proposals

12 years ago

I have to make a decision about a new heat pump system. I am replacing a three ton, 25 year old Rheem. I am convinced either of these two companys will do a good job (I have experience with both) so now it�s about price and what they are offering. I would appreciate any input on the proposals.

The first guy offers two systems, each of which comes with the following:

� Manual J approved Load Calculation

� Fully sealed ductwork (UL Listed foil backed tape) where we install

� Recovery and Disposal of Old R-22

� Removal and Recycling of Old Equipment

� New Outdoor Electrical Disconnect

� UV Resistant Re-Enforced Plastic Pad

� 6" Plastic Legs

� Honeywell Digital Set Back Thermostat for Added Energy Savings

� Clean Copper Line Set with Approved Cleaner

� Honeywell MERV 10 Filter for Clean Indoor Air

Good System

Bryant Legacy Heat Pump, Bryant Legacy Fan Coil.

� ARI Rating of 14.5 SEER with Certificate

� National Average Operating Cost for this System is $1069/yr

� Remove and Reinstall Bypass Humidifier

� Five Year parts warranty

� One Year labor warranty

� Five Year compressor warranty

The total cost of the installation is: $7,141.00

Better System

Bryant Preferred Heat Pump, Bryant Preferred Variable Speed Fan Coil.

� ARI Rating of 15.0 SEER with Certificate

� National Average Operating Cost for this System is $1031/yr

� Honeywell Bypass Humidifier

� Five Year parts warranty

� Five Year labor warranty

� Ten Year compressor warranty

The total cost of the installation is: $7,951

The second guys offers the following:

Good System

Deluxe 3-Ton Heat Pump (With Premiere Air Handler)

- 14 SEER Condensing unit (outside) with single speed fan motor and high-efficiency Copeland scroll compressor

- Air Handler (inside) with Variable Speed blower motor (brings system up to 16 SEER) and electric back up heat

- New 25ft Line Set

- Digital Programmable Thermostat

- A new pad for your condenser to sit on outside

- All Labor (includes disposal of old equipment)

- Lifetime Compressor Replacement Warranty

- 10yr Parts Warranty

- 10yr Labor Warranty

Total: $8,752

Better System

Premiere 3-Ton Heat Pump Pkg

- 16 SEER Condensing unit (outside) with 2-speed fan motor and 2-stage Copeland UltraTech scroll compressor

- Air Handler (inside) with Variable Speed blower motor (brings system up to 17 SEER) and electric back up heat

- New 25ft Line Set

- Touch Screen Programmable Thermostat

- A new pad for your condenser to sit on outside

- All Labor (includes disposal of old equipment)

- Lifetime Unit Replacement Warranty

- 10yr Labor Warranty

- One Year Club Membership (Service Contract)

- This system is eligible for $500 Federal Tax credit

Total: $10,830

Also, do I need high and lo pressure switches? I read something about that on an HVAC forum.

THANK YOU FOR ANY INPUT AT ALL!!!!

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Comments (4)

energy_rater_la
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
warrenties are better from second company
but what brand?
also 14SEER with VS Air handler increases to 16SEER???
don't know about that.
same with second quote of better system (again brand??)
16SEER to 17 SEER?
I like vs..great stuff. maybe they mean when in low speed
the SEER is higher?

do you have model numbers?
you should have a load calc with whatever company you decide to go with.
and ductwork should be mastic sealed, not just foil tape.

best of luck
tigerdunes
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
cindy

what is your location?

mdl numbers count. post mdl numbers of outside condenser and inside air handler for options quoted.

there are three equally important components-quality HVAC, the install by dealer, and probably the most overlooked and disregarded is the ductwork system.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty compressor and parts

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem/Rudd,Carrier/Bryant.

I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost.

post back.

IMO
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Cisco there are three equally important components-quality HVAC, the install by dealer, and probably the most overlooked and disregarded is the ductwork system. these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system. 15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF best matching VS air handler full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron) scroll compressor preferred electronic demand defrost preferred thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature staged backup heat strips new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc. any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed. I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites. I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem/Rudd,Carrier/Bryant. Depending on your location, I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost. IMO
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Thanks for the help! The 2 ton a/c system that is in place performed fine (actually better than fine since it lasted 19 years) with good air flow to the upstairs. This may be due to the fact that the basement a/c system also reaches the upper floor (the original design of the house had just one system but it was inadequate for the upper floor). So, the upper floor system that is placed in the attic is sort of a supplemental system. Three of the bedrooms are cold in the winter so I've opted for a heat pump system this time. The upper floor is 1755 sq. feet with 4 bedrooms and 3 baths. The existing attic system has one large return vent in the hallway between the master BR and the other 3 bedrooms. I plan to stay in the house indefinitely so I'd rather spend the money up front for the highest efficiency system so as to deprive Pepco, our local power company, of as much money as possible. While budget is certainly not unlimited, I want the most efficient system, properly sized and installed. For a long term purchase like this, I do not mind spending more to get the best.
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So I got a better bid today from a different dealer for the 126B 3 1/2 ton A/C. And the reason it was better is they measured the coil case and figured out they could put the new coil in the existing coil case (with a Bryant cover, not a Carrier cover) and save 3 1/2 hours of labor vs. removing the newly installed furnace. Does anyone see any problems with that? I kind of liked it as the furnace is working fine and I don't want it messed up. Also, the original dealer thinks we should get the 4 ton 126B since our old 3 1/2 ton A/C had trouble keeping up on hot days. Here is the AHRI #6364408. It is a generic listing, not for our furnace like the 3 1/2 ton is. Does that matter? They say they are confident it will work with my furnace, but does that impact the SEER, etc? I still have not heard anything re the new model that may be on the way, but the Bryant rep is at a training conference in Oregon so isn't as easy to get a hold of right now. I would appreciate any thoughts you guys have on these two proposals. Thanks, Cindy
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cindyloo123
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I�m sorry I neglected to name the brand in my first post. I eliminated the one system that was only 14 SEER. The brand the second guy is pushing is Amana and I have included the models numbers for those systems in this update of the three proposals I�m considering.

I live in MD. Both guys did a load calculation and checked the ductwork, etc. I am replacing inside and outside units, I am getting my ductwork sealed, and I am about to have a whole house energy audit done, but I have to get this heat pump ordered before I can do anything else!

I just found out that the guy we�ve been using for 20 years, and who we have been very happy with, is not an authorized dealer for any brand. He is the one recommending the Bryant. I don�t know how this news should affect my decision?

This is the first I�ve heard of electronic demand defrost!

Here are the updated proposals:

The first guy offers the following:

Bryant Preferred Heat Pump, Bryant Preferred Variable Speed Fan Coil.

� ARI Rating of 15.0 SEER with Certificate
� National Average Operating Cost for this System is $1031/yr
� Honeywell Bypass Humidifier
� Manual J approved Load Calculation
� Fully sealed ductwork (UL Listed foil backed tape) where we install
� Recovery and Disposal of Old R-22
� Removal and Recycling of Old Equipment
� New Outdoor Electrical Disconnect
� UV Resistant Re-Enforced Plastic Pad
� 6" Plastic Legs
� Honeywell Digital Set Back Thermostat for Added Energy Savings
� Clean Copper Line Set with Approved Cleaner
� Honeywell MERV 10 Filter for Clean Indoor Air
�
� Five Year parts warranty
� Five Year labor warranty
� Ten Year compressor warranty

The total cost of the installation is: $7,951

The second guy offers:

System #1
Amana SSZ14
www.amana-hac.com/Home/Products/HeatPumpSystems/SSZ14Distinctions/tabid/641/Default.aspx

- 14 SEER Condensing unit (outside) with single speed fan motor and high-efficiency Copeland scroll compressor
- Air Handler (inside) with Variable Speed blower motor (brings system up to 16 SEER) and electric back up heat
- New 25ft Line Set
- Digital Programmable Thermostat
- A new pad for your condenser to sit on outside
- All Labor (includes disposal of old equipment)
- Lifetime Compressor Replacement Warranty
- 10yr Parts Warranty
- 10yr Labor Warranty
Total: $8,752

System #2
Amana ASZC16 ttp://www.amana-hac.com/Home/Products/HeatPumpSystems/16SEERASZC16/tabid/856/Default.aspx
- 16 SEER Condensing unit (outside) with 2-speed fan motor and 2-stage Copeland UltraTech scroll compressor
- Air Handler (inside) with Variable Speed blower motor (brings system up to 17 SEER) and electric back up heat
- New 25ft Line Set
- Touch Screen Programmable Thermostat
- A new pad for your condenser to sit on outside
- All Labor (includes disposal of old equipment)
- Lifetime Unit Replacement Warranty
- 10yr Labor Warranty
- One Year Club Membership (Service Contract)
- This system is eligible for $500 Federal Tax credit
Total: $10,830
tigerdunes
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
cindy

can't help you without the mdl numbers of the systems quoted.

and for Maryland area/climate, I would not purchase a new HP system without electronic demand defrost. Electronic demand defrost helps eliminate nuisance, unnecessary, and expensive defrost calls over the cheap time/temp method.

Bryant and Amana do not offer demand defrost.

IMO

Help with heat pump proposals

Comments (4)

energy_rater_la

tigerdunes

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Help with heat pump proposals

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energy_rater_la

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