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Heating & Air Conditioning

Need advice on New AC and Furnace

13 years ago

My husband died a few years ago of cancer at 51 and I really don't know what I am doing so any help would be appreciated. (To add to everything my hot water tank went bad last week! When it rains it pours...)

Any idea on what I should look for in the Heating and AC units? Anything I should ask them? I have a 2,000 sf ranch home in Wisconsin. I want a well made units. Lennox and Carrier are coming today to give quotes as well as the Bryant quote below. I would really like to get more than 14 years out of the next units.

My AC is leaking freon (they put 3 lbs a month ago and it's not working again) Now they say that to "fix" the AC it will be $500 to $600 and freon units are being discontinued. (This unit is 14 years old)

My furnace wasn't working well in the spring but I was letting this go till the end of summer. Looks like a major repair (pilot valve?) as well so I'm looking into replacing both since there are rebates and tax credits until the end of the month. (unit is 14 years old)

The first quote ( 2 options )

1st option:

Furnace Bryant Plus 95s 355 CAV 80,000 btu input

3 stage variable speen natural gas $3,600 (includes removing old furnace, duct, electrical and gas piping, white rogers If80-361 Digital set back)Limited warranty on Heat exchanger 10 year parts 10 year labor.

AC Bryant 163A 2 1/2 ton Puron AC 13 seer (includes removing old unit, 2 1/2 ton new evap coil, condenser pad, all electrical, drain lines and fittings. 10 year on compressor 10 year parts 1 years labor $2,500

This option has 2- $150 rebates and one $1080 tax credit

Option 1 totals $4720 after rebates and tax credit

2nd option:

Same furnace as above with an Evolution Control Thermostat $3,900

AC Bryant 187B 3 ton puron 16 seer 2 speed (includes remove old syst, New 3 ton evap coil, condenser pad, all electrical, drain lines and fittings 10 year parts 1 year labor. $4,400

Total price for both systems in option 2 is $8,300

Option 2 Rebates and Tax credit

Bryant Bonus Rebate 1,000 Energy rebate 250.00 Tax Credit 1,500

Option 2 totals $5,550 after rebates and tax credit.

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Comments (9)
You haven't been quoted a bad system, and all these components are compatible. It isn't a top of the line system, however, and with that in mind the price does seem a bit steep. Perhaps you're just dealing with one of the better, more expensive companies in your area. At least it does not appear that they "oversized" the system which will lead to problems down the road. That furnace should qualify for the $1500 tax credit, which I'm sure you've been told about. It may be worth looking into the XV95 furnace, which has a variable speed motor and has a 2-stage gas valve (high and low heat). The variable speed motor can be configured to help control humidity in the summer. The 13 SEER a/c is fine since you don't live in a climate where it stays warm for a large part of the year, although I'm not sure what your electric rates are like. If you go with the XV95 furnace then the XR15 is a nice upgrade on the a/c side for both efficiency and noise reduction (though neither unit would be considered loud by most people). The TCONT802 is a nicer thermostat that you might try to get them to include at no additional cost. To summarize, the system you were quoted is fine, but in terms of efficiency and features, the XV95 and XR15 are worth looking into. Problem becomes - will the added upfront cost pay for itself down the road. Such is the case for the media filter - it provides better filtration and you only have to change it once or twice a year, but you're spending more upfront.
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GoTerps let's look at each system's numbers. option #1 3929268 Active Systems XC14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XC14-024-230-02 CX34-25+TDR SL280UH090V36B* 24000 13.20 16.00 option #2 3929121 Active Systems XC14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XC14-030-230-03 CX34-31+TDR SL280UH090V36B* 29000 13.50 16.00 option #3 3656259 Active Systems COMFORT 16 PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ACC624A**30 CNPV*3014A** 58CV(A,X)070-12 23000 13.00 16.00 1 option #4 3656288 Active Systems COMFORT 16 PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ACC630A**30 CNPV*3117A** 58CV(A,X)070-12 28400 13.00 16.00 1 all qualify for tax credit. three observations. 1.The Lennox furnace is oversized and should drop down to the 70K model. 2.It is important that lineset be sized correctly whether you select 2 ton or 2 1/2 ton condenser. Flushing is acceptable practice but refrigerant lineset size must be correct. If you elect the 2 1/2 ton condenser, it is unlikely that old lineset will be correct size 3.I do not like thermostat selection for these quotes. I would like to hear from Ryan's ideas/suggestions on this. I do recommend a good 4-5" box filter cabinet. I would not put down more than 25% upon contract acceptance. now to the fuel comparison between electric vs nat gas. to be fair, I will use 50 therms mthly usage to better average your nat gas mthly base charge. Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat Heat Pump with COP of 2.75 $1.15 Nat Gas Furnace 80% eff $1.81 you can readily see that a HP above temp balance pt is the less expensive choice to heat your home. Keep in mind the main reason for the large difference is the 80% eff furnace. yes, if operating costs are important to you, then HP operation would save you some $$s. ask dealer for option on HP condenser version if interested. IMO
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Ryan: Unfortunately adding PVC venting would significantly add to the cost and difficulty, thereby extending the "payback" time beyond the time I foresee myself being in the house. The older model is new in box per contractor and he will provide me with confirmation via documentation prior to install. The Lennox quote was for a G60VST + XC14ST for $9331 but only 1 year warranty on labor & parts. As well, I have been told by a number of different dealers that Lennox parts are sometimes slower to be had than Trane or Carrier for some reason. I was somewhat put off by the Lennox contractor in that I asked for the coil mdoel number to look up whether the AC would qualify for an energy star tax credit and he would not give me the model #. He said he looked it up and that the coil he proposed would not qualify but a more expensive one would. basic programmable t-stat was included in the quote. The Trane quote was for XV80 + XL15i. Total was $9620 with a 3 year contractor's labor warranty. No t-stat included on the Trane quote. I have confidence in the contractor but is the Trane system really worht $800 more than the Carrier/Bryant as proposed?? What I liked about the Carrier/Bryant contractor was the fact that he was going to re-work some sheetmetal to change a transition from an 'L'-shape to a sweeping 90 turn to help improve airflow. Nobody else proposed this. Would welcome any further thoughts you have. Thanks much for your time. Jeff
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If you are getting an A/C and Furnace, why not get a Heat Pump and furnace? The install costs should be the same, just the price difference in the heat pump vs a/c. If you choose the higher end heat pumps, you can even get the $1500 tax credit from Obama. I just got the 315 variable speed furnace with the Preferred Seried 266 Heat Pump with Evolution Control and my god, it's an incredible combination! Dual stage heat pump and dual stage furnace with variable speed fan and the best T-Stat to monitor and run them all (Evolution Control). I would consider that if I were you...
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