Our house already had them in one room, but yes, that can be an issue--when we had an energy audit, you could see dots on the infrared heat scan where each of the can lights was (and they weren't on--the image was just showing where the heat was leaking!)

But if you plan for this, it's relatively simple to seal the opening for air leakage. You can also insulate the attic or ceiling above to condition the air there so that any air that is leaking isn't cold to hot or hot to cold (depending on the location and season).

Heat generation and loss were a problem. Our house had incandescent fixtures and bulbs. WE did and continue to convert all recessed fixtures to LED and have significantly reduced our energy usage. The conversion can be accomplished by simply replacing incandescent bulbs with an LED retrofit. We began this way, but installed LED fixtures every time we remodeled a room. The change has been pricey but worth every penny. We did not take the CFL route. Way too ugly.

You can also do LED cans

I thought this might be helpful. I found LED lights at Costco for just over $15 apiece. I replace 98 in my house. Not only have the energy efficient but the light is awesome.

Precisely why I won't even consider recessed lighting in ceilings with attic space above. Not only will you lose heat through all those holes, but an even bigger concern is in penetrating the moisture barrier. Warm, moisture laden room air leaking into a cold attic will result in the moisture condensing in the insulation & freezing compromising the R value of the insulation and, worse yet, resulting the growth of mold & mildew.

There are ways to mitigate some of these problems....using 'IC' (insulation contact) housings and building foam boxes around the housings (in the attic space) are a couple of treatments. Easy enough to do in new construction but a lot of dirty nasty work to do in a retrofit (esp. in dealing with the moisture barrier). I suspect that a lot of contractors don't worry about this stuff & just cut the holes, slap the housings in and go on their merry way.

So, LED lights in the can will only reduce the am't of electricity you use for lighting and likely keep the thermal switches in the cans from tripping but do nothing to address the much bigger issues of lost heat and moisture laden & conditioned air leaking into your attic.

ICAT + LED No air leaks and no real heat in the living space either. MUCH lower energy bills. Win/win.

I have never understood the desire for can lights except when ceilings are low and even a shallow surface mount fixture is not an option.

It takes a lot more cans to cover an area, and in kitchens you are often throwing a shadow onto the work surface since the light is above and behind you when standing at the counter to work.

" in kitchens you are often throwing a shadow onto the work surface since the light is above and behind you when standing at the counter to work."

Only if the cans are improperly placed. And that is one of the usual complaints against them by people who don't understand how to do a proper lighting design. When they are properly placed, they are part of a system of lighting the kitchen and that includes under cabinet lighting, surface mounts, pendants, and even lamps. Each adds a different layer of light, and all work together as a system to keep your workroom lit correctly.

What live wire oak says. I have them in every room and love the overall level of light from above. Also have lamps and task lighting.

We had a formal energy audit and the cans were definitely an issue. The insulation contractor air-sealed around every one, vented the attic properly and sealed off the floor. The difference in our house has been unimaginable. Seriously, I didn't believe what everyone was saying this would do. But this week, with weather in the low teens and single digits, my thermostats dropped no more than 2 degrees in any room. Some rooms had no temperature change.

I know we still have cold spots in some walls (I'm not drilling and patching) but all the windows and door frames were all caulked inside and out.

Last year, with a super mild winter, we were running space heaters. This year it hasn't been necessary.

Our state has an amazing deal to get this done and our contractor was a dream. We paid 0 out of pocket apart from an application fee. The loan for the work is billed through our electric company, essentially like a mortgage and can be transferred to a new owner (or paid off) should we sell.
Don't know about other states (we are in NY) but this arrangement made it possible for us to do the work.

Our cans take par 38 bulbs. I found LEDs at Lowes that are decently priced with a 3 year waranty. The light is excellent and bright.

The issue is our incandescent dimmers. Because we had a lighting plan, all our lights have dimmers for control. So we can do a workaround with 3 LEDs out of 4 lights. The single incandescent powers the dimmers sufficiently. With all replaced, the secondary switches don't work at all nor do the dimmers. Over time (since the LED bulbs are $$$) I am changing them out to LEDs and will eventually change all the switches in the house to the new Lutrons, which work with my LED bulbs and have the same functionality.

For anyone with straight on/off lights there is a good savings switching out to LEDs though they are so much more expensive it takes a long time to realize actual savings. It's never easy.

Meanwhile, I am kicking myself for stockpiling incandescents (before I found the good LEDs) which I will likely craigslist. I found the GE fluorescent replacement to be the worst. The light is so dim they aren't even useful in closets. And $1 each to recycle? Who thought that up?

Lots of good information to research. A couple questions -

Do the ICAT LEDs have Edison bases or the GU-24 (prong) bases? I am more than a little ambivalent of the prong bases - given the way that technology changes, I wonder if these will be obsolete by the time that bulb finally needs to be replaced which would necessitate a replace of the fixture instead of just the bulb.

Is there really no problem with heat build-up in the attic area with these lights?

What about moisture from heat build up/water vapor? As pointed out that will cause mold and mildew problems.

Is it necessary to lower cathedral ceilings to install these in order to provide the proper insulation?

I have no desire to pay huge amounts of money for insulation and then put holes in it which defeats the purpose. There's so much readily available information about the saving in electrical energy with the use of these lights, but information about the other part - air leakage, potential damage from heat build up, potential for mold/mildew - that information seems to be a lot harder to come by.

This post was edited by ae2ga on Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 13:26

The PAR 38 LEDS from Lowe's (private label is Illumitech made by Feit for them) have Edison bases. They fit my 8 y.o. Lightolier cans. Each can brand/type has bulbs they accept -- my cans have a sticker inside with that info but lighting specs for the cans should show that.

Thing with the LEDs I've been using is that they must be compatible with my dimmer switches so I've been focused on that. Lutron's site has the compatible bulb list in their switch specs.

LEDs are very cool compared to incandescent. So there is much much less heat.

What they did in my house was go into the attic and air seal with soy foam around every can from above. The foam dries rigid and nothing gets through. They foamed around around every electrical chase, the hvac vents -- everything. It took 3 guys two days. Then they cut this 2-inch thick foil-lined foam board to fit around the attic perimeter, installed the proper vents, foamed the joints and then taped the foam board over the entire attic floor. They closed in the sides of the access stairs and made a hatch door -- it looks like a space station up there.

Would think it's ideal for insulation to go in before the cans and then have them sealed down properly. Retro work is much harder.

They also sealed up every cranny in my basement around the rim joist which also was leaking like crazy, around windows and even under the metal fireplace floor guard. An insulation contractor who is certified and knows what he is doing is a blessing. I was very dubious before. DH didn't even want to bother with it. But once they go through your house with the infrared camera and show you where everything is leaking -- then walk through with you again after the job is done -- and no more blue spots, you can see. They sealed up spots in my garage as well. I'm a complete convert after these 5 days of 0 to 10 weather. Proof is the stable temperature in the house; lower heating and electrical costs.

I don't know about cathedral ceilings -- expect that would depend on the roof construction. If you went for an energy audit (they are free under a certain income level with modest surcharges above in our state) they could tell you what you need to do and give you an estimate.

Thank you so very much for the extra information! This is extraordinarily helpful.

I live in a cooling climate, just recently moved to Georgia in fact, but I think the savings for air conditioning which is used most of the year will be significant. What you have gained is my goal - stable temperatures in the house with lowered electrical costs.

My next project is the roof and then the k/d/l rooms which is when I will need to be able to make an informed decision about these issues.

So - energy audit first and then an insulation contractor who knows what he/she is doing to seal, caulk, and insulate. Mine will be retro work, and the two people I've spoken to acted as if I'd lost my mind.

Personally, how do you like the aesthetics of the cans? No runway look? Did you have a lighting designer or someone else make a plan for you?

again - thanks so much for taking time to share this information.

We have central air. I am told the insulation with work the same way for that -- you are correct (but I haven't been through a cooling season as yet so I don't know if it will be as efficient).

I'm an ID and do my own lighting plans. I like 5" cans as they offer a good light spread and you don't need rows and rows of them. Some designers prefer smaller cans and pin spots. My preference is even overall light that can be controlled via dimmers. When done properly, you see light, not the cans. Aesthetically I'm not mad for multiple hanging or surface mounted fixtures. I had to use mini tracks in our apartment which worked well -- a great solution for some ceilings.

Because the technology is changing so rapidly I feel a great lighting designer or ID with this expertise is worth the fee and I say that as a diehard DIY GWebber who taught herself to put in a drip watering system outside and saved $8K. OTOH, if you want a challenge, have time and don't mind living with your own mistakes, it can be mastered. But it's really technical. I made a mistake when we did our apartment -- fortunately I had a genius electrician.

But before I hired anyone I would read through the Lutron site and see what they offer. I drool every time. Would love a control panel on each floor -- those weren't well developed when we did our reno. I'm also into specialty switches with LEDs down the side so there's no groping in the dark. I installed one with infrared and a little remote control for the main lights in our bedroom - just great, and I will use it again when we change out the ones here. In some states, electric companies will give you incentives or rebates on the cost of switches that are on timers and turn themselves off -- another aspect to explore.

Here's a link to EFS, the financing entity that works with states across the country. You may not need the services but they are the mother ship for programs available in various states and the list of green-certified contractors who work with them regularly. That's how I find ours.

If you need more background on the deal or have questions about the audit or whatever, best to email.

Here is a link that might be useful: EFS

Rococogurl - you rock in amazing ways! Thank you so much for this information and site referrals. And to make this even better, Georgia is one of the states that has the energy program. Lots of reading for me - you're the best!

I really love GW Kitchen forum!

Great thread. Does anyone know of a similar program in MA? As someone with lots of Cree cans and cold attic space above, I am cringing as I read this.

This looks to be a similar program to the one we have in NY. Mass is quite progressive in this area. Good luck with your research.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mass Save

"Only if the cans are improperly placed."

It just takes MORE fixtures and more watts with proper placement.

Not everyone has the money to tears into walls and ceiling for a "system of lighting the kitchen and that includes under cabinet lighting, surface mounts, pendants, and even lamps. Each adds a different layer of light, and all work together as a system to keep your workroom lit correctly."

Some of us just want decent illumination without spending every dollar in the bank, and creating a whole lot of dust and grease catching things to clean in the kitchen.

Of course we actually cook in the kitchen, sometimes a lot.

CA has a program as well; I believe all are funded with federal money so most states should have something in place soon if not yet.

FWIW, GU24 sockets are one way of satisfying California's rather strict lighting efficiency requirements, so that's what we used, though ours aren't LEDs. I did buy a bunch of extra light bulbs (though in two years we've not had to change them) but also figured that even if they change the code, there will be enough of them installed in CA for there to be a market for adapters!

I was aghast to see cans in our 100-year-old home when we moved in, but I will say they have grown on me a lot. (They're in our living room.) they are Lutron, which I understand is fairly good quality as cans go. We still chose to avoid them for the kitchen, but I'm nowhere near as averse to them as I once was.

We had a lot of fun with our energy audit, too. :)

@Brickeye - You are a voice of practicality crying in the wilderness.

While I know that my eyes require greater illumination than they used to, my preference is to have two semi-flush mounts equi-distance and centered and one light over the sink and no cans, but it seems almost unavoidable. I will not have any upper cabinets so there will be no undercab lights for me.

At least Rocogurl provided information to make more energy efficient so that all of the heat is not floating out of the ceiling.