We have two fenced-in areas, one inside the other. The larger area is fenced against deer, and inside it, we installed an electric fence around the veg. garden. The electric fence keeps out raccoons, woodchucks, and rabbits. 1. The deer fence: We bought rolls of black plastic deer fencing at Home Depot for $55/roll (7 ft. wide/100 feet long rolls). Also at home depot, we purchased ten-foot rebars (to use as stakes), electrical plastic ties, and a three-foot long 3-inch gas pipe with threads in one end, and a 3-inch cap (to screw onto the pipe). This pipe w/cap was used to pound the rebars into the ground this way: slide the pipe over the rebar, set the rebar in place, and start pounding. If you hit a rock, move the rebar over and start again,. When all rebars are in place, tie the fencing material to the rebars with plastic ties. Deer will crawl under the fence if given a chance. We use rebars tied to the bottom of the fence with plastic ties, so the rebars lie on the ground and hold the fence down by their weight. At Johnnys (877-564-6697), we bought 79-inch-high Hortonova trellis netting (not Trellinet), which we used as additional deer-fencing material where deer crashed through the black fencing. It is white, so deer see it well. Hortonova is available in 250-feet rolls, $55, and in much larger rolls (3,280 feet $325) + shipping. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/product.aspx?scommand=search&search=hortonava&item=9716 http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/product.aspx?scommand=search&search=hortonava&item=9712 2. The electric fence: http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=436&cat_id=0& I noticed there is free shipping on the fence. We purchased our 30-inch-high Versanet fence, and all the necessary supplies, at Premier1: 800-282-6631. The fence is low enough to step over, so you donÂt have to open the gate to get in and out the veg. garden. The electric fence has so far been extremely effective in keeping out raccoons, rabbits, and woodchucks, but mice, chipmunks, and other small critters will run through. I imagine that the electric fence could be lined with plastic fencing material with tiny holes to keep chipmunks out. We lined the gate (because it has very large openings, once allowing a rabbit to come through), but since we lined it, weÂve had no more rabbits inside. For additional fence posts to hold the Versanet in place, we made our own posts of rebars over which we pounded 3 1/3-foot sections of gray plastic (not metal!) circuit pipe. First pound four- or five-foot-long rebars into the ground, so only 25 inches are above ground. Then, pound 3 1/3-foot plastic pipe (we used gray plastic circuit pipe) over the rebars, so the rebars sit inside the plastic pipe. The top of the rebars should not be close to the top of the plastic pipe. If the rebars are close to the top, remove the plastic pipe, and pound the rebars further into the ground. Reinstall the plastic pipe over the rebar. Plastic circuit pipe (not metal circuit pipe) comes in ten-foot lengths (HD). I think we used the 1/2-inch. Check that the rebars fit into the pipe before buying and cutting the plastic pipe. The HD guys will cut the 10-foot plastic pipe into thirds for you. In addition, with a saw, cut two notches in the top of each 3-foot plastic pipe, across from one another. This will make a groove for the top strand of the Versanet wire to rest in. Make sure no metal comes in contact with the electric fence, including the rebars inside the circuit pipe. Pound the rebars further into the ground if they are a bit close to the top of the plastic pipes. With plastic ties, tie the Versanet to the homemade posts. Pull on the Versanet just enough to prevent sagging between posts. Only VersanetÂs bottom strand should touch the ground. I tie the bottom strand to the bottom of the homemade posts, to prevent sagging, but also to prevent the Versanet from pulling up allowing room for a woodchuck to slide under the fence. The Versanet comes with posts (they are built into the fence material), but youÂll get a stronger installation with the addition of homemade posts. The fences have made it possible for us to grow a veg. garden, and I'm very pleased with having no deer in the inner circle anymore. Hope this is helpful. By the way, I have no interests in any of the companies mentioned.

No Zucchini seeds requested here Signet. I am waiting for the Choke Cherry bushes to flower... set seed ..... so I can send them to you...:):) Faye in N.S.

Good afternoon, Thank you, Luis, for your additional searching suggestions. I was able to locate the over-wintering thread started by hayseedman with your work around. ego45 thank you for your anecdotal knowledge about Blue Billow. I am 5a, so I am still wondering. :) razorback33 I don't know if I should thank you or rue your suggestion about Hydrangeas Plus. I didn't need to know there were even MORE hydrangeas in the serrata family. :) I have had good luck with Wilkerson's service--they spent about 30 minutes on the phone after closing time with me answering questions, but I have yet to know what their actual plants are like. Whenever I have had questions about caring for my existing hydrangeas (pinky winky, quick fire, anna belles, ES) Wilkerson always comes up, but maybe that is just good search engine optimization. :) After reading the overwintering thread, I wonder if I could keep them in my garden shed during the winter wrapped in the thick felt blankets described or in burlap if I kept them in 15-20 gallon pots. I also have our unheated, attached garage--would that work? Maybe I just need to wait a few more years and maybe they will breed hardier serratas. :) cheers, Nora Belle

it was the most mighty gremlin of them all who deemed the thread off topic for this forum :-) You all were so nice that I came back this morning to look around and found this discussion. I fly out next month. I saved your good information in my email. I grew up in Wyoming, so the Paul Bunyan reference is a mystery that I will certainly check out. thanks again jc ~laughing~ if this one disappears too, the original poster will get an email from spkie explaining "why"