Susy I know. My problem is that my store does not carry dried milk powder except in a big box with many packets. I dont need that much and dont want to open up a big packet of it for such a small amount called for in the recipes.

I remember Carnation used to have it in a box with a pour spout. Can't find that anymore.

So if there is a way to make these recipes using regular milk instead, I'd like to know.

Maybe I'm fortunate, but I have two stores that carry non-fat dry milk powder in the bulk bins. So I can buy as much or as little of it as I need.

If it were me, and I didn't have bulk milk powder available, I'd look to see if the liquid in the recipe happens to be water. If it is, I'd try eliminating the milk powder and water, and use the same amount of liquid milk as the recipe calls for with water. Of course, I don't mind occasionally experimenting.

My bulk bins are at Henry's and I think Sprouts has it too. (My mom's Sprouts store does. I haven't been in ours. Henry's is only a half mile from me.)

Donna

I like to use dry milk powder when I can, but really miss the box with the spout. Next time I'm at Whole Foods I'm going to see if they have this in their bulk food section. I'll bet they do.

Hopefully when our local co-op ever gets up and running, there will be dry milk powder in the bulk bins.

Adding dry milk also beefs up the protein and calcium in a bread recipe. I often make the Cornell Triple Formula bread that calls for 1 TB soy flour, 1 TB dry milk, and 1 TB wheat germ put into the measuring cup and topped up with regular flour - this is for each cup of flour called for in the recipe.

Teresa

I use dry milk powder all the time in breads (both quick & yeast). We buy in 25# boxes both Organic Valley & Frontier (also organic) brands. I *think* both brands sell in MUCH smaller units, like around 12-16 oz., packaging. Try looking in the organics aisle of your grocery store. If not, seems like Whole Foods would carry the smaller packaging. More expensive than Carnation but no antibiotics or growth hormones.

/tricia

I keep it on hand for my bread baking. It lasts forever and you can even keep it in your freezer. I love having it available for those times when you are short of milk and want to make gray or bake something. Having the dried milk is a life saver......

If you're in the South, try Winn-Dixie for the powdered milk NOT in premeasured bags. I can't remember if it's Carnation or not. That's what I used to get all the time, but hadn't been able to find any until I happened into W-D.

I asked for it at Publix, but they only brought in the huge boxes with packets, which don't serve my purpose. At least they were nice enough to try.

I make all my bread with regular milk, just using the amount of milk that the water calls for in the recipe. They turn out fantastic, so I wouldn't go out of my way to buy powdered milk.

I've seen a recipe for Red River Cereal bread that has rave reviews, Susy, but I haven't tried it yet.

maxmom right! That box with all those packets is just way too much. I'll look in a Winn Dixie. Thanks.

The reason many recipes call for dry milk powder is that milk contains an enzyme that inhibits the yeast.....that's why recipes with yeast tell you to scald milk and let it cool before using....kills or deactivates the substance that inhibits the yeast.
Using dry milk avoids those problems.....and while you think it's expensive, it's really cheaper that "real" milk.
If you don't need all of a packet, put it in a zip lock and save it.
Linda C

Interesting. My problem is usually the other way around. I don't drink fresh milk so I find keeping powder milk in the freezer is much versatile for me. I purchase the big box at Sam's Club.

Since we're in the subject of dry milk powder, would any of you know if using powder milk work for making ice cream? Thanks.

Thanks Linda! That's the answer I was looking for. I figured there had to be a practical reason.

I have dry milk powder on hand. I am lucky to live near a very well stocked bulk store, so it's easy for me to get it. I was just curious as to why it was needed.

jasdip, I ended up making the recipe at the link below. I finished it in the oven at 350 for 30 minutes, and it was really good! We ate a good portion of the loaf with dinner.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red River Cereal Bread

I ran out of dry milk and keep forgetting to pick up more from the store. My T&T recipe for whole wheat bread calls for dried milk or dried buttermilk. I usually just scald regular milk and substitute it for the dried milk, using the measurement for water as my guide. It's always turned out great. I finally made it to the store that has the dried buttermilk, and stocked up on it. Maybe I'll try that next time.

Sally

Thanks Susy! I'll try it as well.

While we're on the topic of powdered milk, I have buttermilk powder on hand. Do most of you mix it with water, and use it as liquid, or use the powder in with the dry ingredients, and increase the liquid in the recipe?

I use it as a powder and increase the liquid....but any recipe I have that calls for buttermilk doesn't call for any other liquid than honey or molasses or eggs etc....
Buttermilk keeps for weeks after the sell by date... as my son says.."What's to go bad? It's already spoiled"....I tell him it;'s a matter of opinion!!
Linda C

The Struan bread I butchered today called for 1/2 cup buttermilk and 3/4 cup of water. It crossed my mind that I should try putting the powder in dry, and adding 1 1/4 cups water. I'm going to do that next time.

We only use powdered milk products for drinking, cooking and all milk-applications, and have for 30-years. However, when it comes to adding dried milk products to breads I use Baker's Special Dry Milk from King Arthur. Too much dry milk powder (liquid milk or other dairy products i.e. sour cream or cottage cheese, etc.) in breads can affect the volume, symmetry, cellular structure, and texture of the bread. That "roller coaster" crust can usually be attributed to too much dairy products. Baker's Special Dry Milk has been processed to work better with yeast for a really high-rising finished product than regular powdered milk products; and it also comes in a convenient amount (16-oz.). Store it in your freezer if you don't use if frequently.

Using this product will also eliminate the need to scald milk. Scalding denatures the whey protein in regular milk as well as reconstituted non-fat dry milk products which affects bread. That's why scalding is often indicated in recipes, especially if there is a fairly large amount of milk in the recipe. It's incorrectly thought milk is scalded to pasteurize it from the times when people used raw milk, but it's scalded because of milk's affect on bread, not because it's raw.

When it comes to using powdered buttermilk, reconstituted is pretty insipid (weak, thin and tasteless) compared to commercial buttermilk, so I make a homemade fermented version that is thick and tangy - more like commercial buttermilk. When I make large quantities of baked goods around St. Patrick's Day that require LOTS of buttermilk, I make my own ahead of time and save a pile of money.

How to: To one quart of reconstituted powdered milk add 1/2 c. of reconstituted powdered buttermilk milk (or you can also use 1/2 c. commercial buttermilk or use 1/2 cup of the previous "homemade" version). Stir to mix thoroughly. Allow to stand in a warm place (80-degrees F) 12-18-hours (I use my oven with the light on and set the quart jar as far from the oven light as possible). Let set until the milk clabbers. Stir until smooth and refrigerate. Use in any recipe that calls for buttermilk. NOTE: You can also use regular milk from the store, instead of reconstituted powdered milk, add the buttermilk and ferment it as well.
(Information from: "Natural Meals in Minutes" by Rita Bingham).

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: King Arthur Flour - Baker's Special Dry Milk

I can easily find the boxes of powdered milk with a spout and I always have some on hand because I use it when making yogurt. Sometimes. Sometimes not, depending on my memory and my mood, LOL, but the yogurt is thicker when I use it.

If I didn't have any, I'd just use milk.

As we've discussed the matter before, and I pointed out then, the process of scalding milk can make a difference in the final product when making bread. I know many recipes call for scalding milk and so I do that when a recipe specifically calls for it. Sometimes. If I skip that step and the bread comes out poorly, it's my own fault but most of the time I just use milk and it turns out fine.

Ah, what can I say, I'm a risk taker. (grin)

Annie

So what about evaporated milk? Does it need to be scalded when using it to make bread? I keep the small 5oz can on hand for sauces and thinning salad dressings and have used it for bread making. I mix it half and half with water for bread and the bread comes out fine but would it be better to scald it? I know it's not as economical as the powdered milk but it a lot easier for some things and it's less than 50c a can.

Claudia

No, you don't have to scald evaporated milk. It has already been heated.

So there's this question that Grainlady's post brought to mind, and I've wondered about whenever I see powdered milk in recipes. I've always thought that milk made from dry milk tastes wretched. I mean, it does, you gotta admit it. So, why wouldn't it make whatever you bake with it taste worse than if you used fresh milk? Sort of like if using wine in a recipe, you want to use one that at least tastes good.

Sally

sally2-
Not ALL powdered milk products "taste wretched". You just haven't experienced the ones that taste good. These are the brands we use and they are difficult to detect from regular milk - straight from the glass. We've done the taste tests with milk-lovers over the years, including my husband, and they never knew they were consuming "powdered milk" in anything it's been used in, including drinking it.

Country Cream - an instant non-fat dry milk product http://www.grandmascountryfoods.com/

Morning Moo's - a non-instant, low-lactose, whey-based milk substitute available from Augason Farms (formerly Blue Chip Group) - http://www.augasonfarms.com/

I realize "taste" is subjective, but many people who would NEVER drink buttermilk wouldn't think anything contrary to adding it to chocolate cake or scones. There is more contributing to the flavors in a recipe besides powdered milk. Heat alters the sugars in milk, which will alter the milk flavor. Have you ever tasted raw flour? Nothing pleasant-tasting about that.... ;-)

-Grainlady

I agree, I couldn't choke down a glass of commercial buttermilk but I like it for pancakes and biscuits. I wouldn't even try to drink a glass of evaporated milk, but I use it in fudge and pumpkin pie.

I grew up drinking milk from our own cows, raw whole milk that we shook the cream back into when it rose to the top, so I can tell the difference between dry milk and store milk and raw milk.

I don't much care for dry milk, but I don't much care about commercially available skim milk either. I drink it anyway, LOL, and I get it from my local organic and hormone free dairy, Country Dairy in New Era.

Anyway, I think some of the difference also has to do with dispersal of the ingredient. Drinking a cup by itself if far different than mixing it with eggs/butter/flour/yeast/salt/whatever and then consuming it.

I don't notice the flavor in yogurt either, it just tastes like yogurt.

Annie

Okay, y'all both make excellent points. Thanks for the references, Grainlady.

Sally

Most of the sources I can find say that any enzymes that interfere with gluten production are denatured when the milk is pasteurized.

Thanks CC that's what I thought but was just asking. I know what grainlady means when she says too much milk will make the crest wavy I did that a few times before she posted about it. Always learning something new about bread making.

Claudia

Jessica, according to MSU's extension service, pasteurization does not reach high enough temperatures to disable the enzyme protease, which is what inhibits gluten development. Pasteurization usually requires that milk be heated to 161F for 15-20 seconds. 185/190F is required to disable the protease enzyme

However, it seems that the enzyme only inhibits gluten formation under certain circumstances, which is why it "works" some of the time if you don't scald it.

Annie

Interesting. Thanks, Annie.

Well, I made my T&T bread with dried buttermilk this time, and the consensus is that it's more fragile, or flakey, but very good. Usually I use regular milk that I've boiled and cooled, but I finally was at a store that had the dried buttermilk. As I mentioned above, the recipe says to use either dried milk or dried buttermilk. Oh, the other difference is that I used white whole wheat for the most part, as I was almost out of regular whole wheat. So, I don't know if the difference in texture is due to the dried buttermilk vs. regular milk, or the different flour. I guess I need to get fresh buttermilk, (or make it like Grainlady does) and make it with that, to do a real comparison, or get some dried milk and make it with that.

By the way, I also have some of Ann T's rye bread going, but it's going very slowly. I'm afraid it's going to turn out like bricks. But, I should post about that on the rye bread thread.

Sally