What in the world??? I'll try again. I haven't posted in a loooonnnnng time.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen plan

What is that drawn into the island?

I like your ideas...Something like this?

Oh, you wanted the island rotated, though. I like the wide side of an island facing the range, so it's hard for me to imagine it turned. The way it is both the person at the sink and the seated people can see out the French doors to the side. If it is turned, the seated people have their backs to the view. -- And I might want the fridge at the other end of the room for easier family access. But if the island was turned, it might enable you to put the fridge in the unit by the pantry...

Still plenty to think about.

Best I could see for the island rotated. Be aware that it's about 18" to 2 feet shorter than in rhome's plan. Even if you considered this plan, I'd still do the island in the other orientation.
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Thanks rhome and bmore! I think you're right about keeping the island parallel to the range. I was concerned with the people sitting at the island having their back to the dining/living area.

Bmore, we're adding about 1800 sq ft. to the house, so we're trying to move as few walls as possible from the original footprint. You're ideas were great! I couldn't show the whole pantry. It's actually odd shaped. The wall to the right is 12'. It wasn't on the architect's plan...we drew it in.

Do you think the kitchen is too small? Also, I think we'll put a french door with only one door that opens to save space or a sliding door.

Rhome, can you put windows on either side of the french doors for me? I'll print this baby out and give it to my architect!!! Do you think the island is deep enough? It seems like the sink is huge. I just want my kids/guests to have room to eat/do homework/etc. Technically, I'd need room for six to sit at the island.

You would need almost 12" in length to sit 6 people at an island. Even if you scrimped on the "elbow room" and went down to 20" per person as opposed to the recommended 24" per person you'd need a minimum of 10'. Your island looks about 8'?

I think 8' will have to do. We figured on those rushed nights with football, soccer, dance and baseball those would be times we'd eat dinner at the island.

My father will be living with us after the remodel, so that's our 6th person. I think keeping the island at 8'(any bigger and we won't be able to move around much)will force us to sit down and eat as a family at the table. Not such a bad thing.

It would be better if --

• you had a few more feet in width(even three) - so the area in front of the ref was open to snack grabbers - so you could have some storage on the blank wall. There's very little storage in the kitchen for the size of the kitchen.
• people take 2 feet of counter edge and only one side of a corner can be counted in the two feet. If your father is elderly or disabled, he may need more clearance. If you make the odd short wall cabinets less deep or cut them altogether in favor of a shallow furniture piece, you can make the island deeper and gain another seating position on the patio door side.
• your overhang is relatively shallow. if you are a "splashy" person (i am to my sorrow), the two seating positions near the sink will be usable
• the double doors are kinda inconvenient? they need a huge clearance. Perhaps consider inoperable panels and a single wide door.

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Top of island is about 30" deep. Seating is at table height.

The architect put the two operable doors. I definitely would use just one. That's what we have now and I like it. DH mentioned sliding door, but I know my kids won't close it and my 4yo daughter probably will need assistance everytime she wants to go outside.

I agree, for the size of the kitchen, there isn't much space. I really can't make the kitchen wider unfortunately, because of the powder room. It's much harder when you are limited due to it being an addition.

I'm hoping having a large pantry (well large for me) will help with the lack of cabinet space. Right now, I have a galley kitchen. It works and functions well. The only convenience is the set of three drawers next to the stove. This kitchen will definitely be full of drawers.

I agree the blank wall is wasted space, but I think the island space is a must. However, I may have to make some sacrifices to get this kitchen to work.

HELP!!

Thanks,
Lori

I'll post other pictures of the house so you can see what I'm working with. The white posts are existing and the dark is new construction.

Here is a link that might be useful: another view

Also, thank goodness, my father is healthy and independent, but I know that won't be forever. My mother passed away 1 1/2 years ago suddenly and his life and future changed as well as mine. I lost my best friend, my only sister, and my mother. She called me every morning - always asking about my kids and especially her granddaughter. She had 3 grandsons and I finally gave her that granddaughter. She was retiring in May and died in April. She was going to babysit my daughter, so I wouldn't have to send her to daycare. She always talked about taking my daughter shopping, getting their nails done, going to the library and book stores. It's such a shame she, my daughter and myself , as well as the rest of our family, missed out on spending time with her. Before I got married, I spent many weekends shopping with my mother and grandmother and going out to lunch or dinner. My grandmother used to brag to people that we were 3 generations. I was looking forward to doing the same. Who would have thought my mother would die 6 years after her 86 year old mother?

My dad doesn't like living alone, and he's finding it difficult financially, so he's going to sell the house and live with me and also at my 2 brother's homes. There's room for him at each house. He's 68 and very independent - always has been.

I don't know how I got on this rant. Back to kitchen ideas.

Here is a link that might be useful: another view

If you went with outswing french doors, you wouldn't need so much clearance. Outswing cost more than inswing because of the special covered hinges, but so worth it for the increase in usable space and really a drop in the bucket when compared to overall remodel costs.

I just looked at my plan! I could widen the kitchen by 5 ft. if I lose the window in the 1/2 bath. What do you think?

With a big sink in the middle of an island, doing homework (and keeping it dry!) may be problematical. To me, an ideal island has as much "empty" real estate as possible...meaning no main sink or range/cooktop in the island. A prep sink will usually be OK if it's on one end of a long enough island.

The "empty" real estate allows projects (school, crafts, baking) to be spread out and provides plenty of work room. With the sink (or range) in the middle of an island, you've drastically reduced the island's main advantages...large work space.

Seating....you need 24" of space along the counter & 15" deep knee space per person (NKBA recommendations). Additionally, if you plan to "round the corner" with seating as you show, you need to add another 12" - 15" to the counter depth b/c two people cannot occupy the same knee space (under the counter) as you show them doing at the left corner. As it stands, your island can only seat one person on the left edge, not two. To be honest, I'm not sure you can fit 3 people along the long edge either. (I don't know the dimensions of the island for certain, but it looks less than 6' long.)

BmorePanic's plan addresses most of the issues...

Here's another one to consider...similar to BmorePanic's first.

With the additional 5' in width, you could string more along the top wall...but I'm not sure how much it actually gains you...a bigger island, definitely.

What is the layout of the entire first floor? How does the family enter the house? I can't tell what's beyond the Laundry Room & Pantry (begins with an H?) The entrances into the house as well as the kitchen can have an impact on what's the best layout.

Right now, I'd really like to get that refrigerator closer to the DR & LR but I don't want the island to become an barrier island....I'll work on it some more with the add'l 5'.

Using the same dimensions (i.e., w/adding 5')...

I'm truly sorry for your loses. The world is never the same again, is it?

(and a side comment to buehl - my father is in end stage. awful place to be alike.)

I really enjoyed looking at the marvelous garden plan. Is that yours?

I wish celticmoon was around, for another fine opinion to go with buehl's. There is also a home remodeling forum around here someplace that may also be useful. Everybody is going to want the whole floor plan :)

I don't think I'm worth much outside of the kitchen - but I'm kinda hesitating at the very long dining room without windows. I can see where you've indicated building a new wall for xtra storage, but ... I'm really encouraging you to post more of the plan.

So sorry I missed your request for me to change the plan a bit, but it looks like you've moved on since then anyway...

Thanks buehl. You guys are too kind to take time out of your day to work on my plan.

I originally didn't want the sink in the island for the same reasons you mentioned, but I didn't think I had much choice due to the size of the kitchen. I know I don't want the stove in the island.

When I look at soonermagic's kitchen it is not large at all, but looks fantastic. If she can have such a beautiful kitchen with such a small space - there's hope for me too, right?

To answer your questions...

I unfortunately have to scan a few more views of the plan. I'll ask the arch. to email me the plan Monday, so you can see it easier. I'll post what I have scanned already.

The "H" that you see is a hall. The dining room is where my kitchen is now, and our table is turned and all the way to the left - very tight.

bmore - I was surprised to even see the dining room on the plan when we got it. The lack of windows is another issue, but I figured we'd get some light from the kitchen windows/doors. Our house doesn't receive much light now. The sun rises on the left side, so we get afternoon sun in the kitchen, but not much. We are one of the rare neighborhhoods with trees in the area. There are no views to be seen, except my children in the yard. ;o)

rhome - keep coming with the ideas.

Here's a crazy idea...if I scrap the deck I could put windows/doors on the back wall, since there's already a door on that side.

I know, I know POST THE STINKIN' PLAN!!

More pics coming...

Here's a better view

Here is a link that might be useful: wider view