New Contruction HVAC Question

11 years ago

Hello,

Heating and Cooling loads for our new construction in eastern Ontario were calculated by a third party HVAC Design company. Here are the numbers:

Heating: 65600 Btuh
Cooling: 29300 Btuh

That companyÃ¢ÂÂs recommendation was for a 80K furnace and a 2.5 Ton air conditioner.

HereÃ¢ÂÂs what our HVAC contractor proposed (we requested the Carrier Infinity lineup) for supply and installation:

- Furnace: Infinity Greenspeed 59MN7A080V17-14
- A/C: Infinity 24ANB630A003
- Thermostat: Infinity Control SYSTXCCUID01-V

IÃ¢ÂÂm not sure if thereÃ¢ÂÂs anything that requires Ã¢ÂÂmatchingÃ¢ÂÂ (most of the posts I see on here are about Heat Pumps), but any comments on the above?

We also need an HRV and I had asked him to price out the Venmar AVS EKO 1.5. IÃ¢ÂÂm not sure if there are many others on the market but I eyed this HRV because it has ECM motors and moves a sufficient amount of air as per requirements. There is only a $230 difference between that one and an comparatively sized Carrier Performance HRV (HRVCCLHA1150) that supposedly communicates through the Infinity Control. I canÃ¢ÂÂt find many specs on the latter, but can anybody provide insight on the energy efficiency of the unit and also on what kind of control can be done through the Infinity Thermostat?

Thanks for the help!

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Comments (14)

tigerdunes
11 years ago
This is nat gas service?

Post both electric and nat gas rates.

Describe typical winter and summer temp averages for your location/climate.

Do you know the design temps GC/dealer used both inside and outside for winter heating and summer cooling. If you don't know, you should find out.

IMO
mike_home
11 years ago
You have been quoted Carrier's best furnace.The AC is the best single stage AC Carrier offers.

You should find out which coil the contractor plans to use. I recommend you get a Carrier coil and not one from a third party.
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MGDawg
Original Author
11 years ago
Yes, this is natural gas service.

Delivered rates currently average:
Gas: $1.25 / CCF or $0.437 / m3
Hydro: $0.191 / kWh

If my calculations are correct, that means hydro is 4.5 times more expensive per Btu.

Here are the design conditions:

Winter
Outside: -13F
Inside: 72F
Delta: 85F

Summer
Outside: 86F
Inside: 75F
Delta: 11F

I will ask to get the coil info.

This post was edited by MGDawg on Sun, Apr 28, 13 at 18:49
MGDawg
Original Author
11 years ago
HVAC contractor just got back to me... coil seems to be the Carrier CNPVP3117ACA.
ryanhughes
11 years ago
"Carrier CNPVP3117ACA"

I sure hope not. Carrier got away from these "ACA" copper coils years ago due to widespread leaking issues, and began to offer the "ATA" models which were tin-plated copper as standard, which would have a 10 year warranty. They held up somewhat better apparently. Now, Carrier is finally offering aluminum indoor evaporator coils (not in air handlers, yet), whose model numbers would end with "ALA." Something to pay attention to.

This post was edited by ryanhughes on Sun, Apr 28, 13 at 22:11
fsq4cw
11 years ago
Based on the energy costs you provided, the approximate cost per kW of heat delivered into your home with the Greenspeed gas furnace at full theoretical efficiency of 98.5% would be about 4.3-cents/kW, with a Greenspeed HP (COP-3.3, HSPF 11.3) and all electric fan coil it would be about 5.78-cents/kW if you lived in region 5 and about 5-cents/kW if you lived in region 4 (HSPF 13).

This has to be balanced against the cost differential of the 2-systems including the cost of the gas line installation and chimney/liner installation (particularly if you wouldnÃ¢ÂÂt be using gas for anything else) minus any promotions by Carrier and the various utilities or governments.

You might want to consider which type of system may have the longer life cycle and lower maintenance costs.

Regarding the HRV, you might want to ask the contractor if the Infinity T-stat will control the Venmar WITHOUT the Carrier NIM (Network Interface Module). If it wonÃ¢ÂÂt, there goes your $230 savings!

SR
mike_home
11 years ago
If natural gas is available and the winter design temperature is -13F, then the decision of a furnace over a heat pump seems easy to me. Am I missing something?

Since this is new construction, I would expect the builder has included the installation costs of the gas line and in needed a chimney liner. I would also expect a gas furnace to outlive a heat pump.

Double check the coil model. I thought the ACA coil had been discontinued. There is no excuse to not use the ATA coil. The price difference is small.
MGDawg
Original Author
11 years ago
I wasn't debating wether to go for a furnace or heat pump, just hoping to get insight on the model numbers provided. Glad you guys mentioned the coil - I'll look into it.

If you guys know the info off hand, what would a typical upcharge be for going aluminum (ALA) vs tin (ATA)? Is that a worthy upgrade?
tigerdunes
11 years ago
Inconsequential compared to the benefit. I wouldn't accept an upgrade charge.

IMO
mike_home
11 years ago
It is always hard to estimate prices, but I think a Carrier 2.5 ton ATA coil sells for $600 - $700. The ALA coil is probably a left over and being sold with a big discount.

The Carrier web site claims the coils are all aluminum. I agree with Tigerdunes. You should not have to pay a premium for the current product. The worst case scenario is they may get you for a few hundred dollars. It is a good investment if you plan to live in this house for more than 10 years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Carrier coils
tigerdunes
11 years ago
Mike

I believe you meant to say ACA coil.

I personally would want the ALA coil.

IMO
mike_home
11 years ago
Tigerdunes,

You are correct. That's what happens when I try to type too fast.
MGDawg
Original Author
11 years ago
Okay, I will make the request.

Any other comments on the HRV? Who makes the Carrier HRV and anyone have links to it's specs?
MGDawg
Original Author
11 years ago
I also have a choice for the air filtration.

1 - Carrier Infinity Air Purifier (GPAAXCC1625) for $1005

2 - General Air Mac 2000 20X25X5 air filter with 2 extra filters for $322

----

Obviously there is a sizeable difference between the two. Carrier offers MERV 15 filtering while the simple air filter is in the MERV 10 ballpark. Any comments on the Carrier unit? Ballparks on the cost of replacement filters and on how long they typically last?

New Contruction HVAC Question

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