Violet, That couldn't have been easy for you to post. I live with a potential hoarder. It's not because he's dirty, or lazy or anyone of a myriad other reasons. He just can't decide what's important. We (and by that I mean I) am in the midst of massive decluttering.

He just can't do it. Every single thing, from a 10 year old grocery receipt, to his great uncle's army discharge papers must be examined and then a story told that somehow relates to the piece of paper. It's hard for him and exhausting for me.

Congratulations on making such great strides. Most of us will never be free from ALL our stuff but it sounds like you have it all under control. Your kids must be so proud of you.

Violet, good for you, what a victory and a long road to recovery. The organizing forum is very inspiring, I like to read posts there also. I am a neat freak but I am also messy at times, go figure.

Lottery, good luck to you, keep at it one step at a time and you'll get to where you want to be with your decluttering.
It doesn't happen overnight !

I read a small book a while ago "clear your clutter with feng shut" I'm not a feng shui addict but the organizing tips in that book were super simple and good.

Violet, what a story of triumph for you and the power of love between a mother and her children. I, too, imagine they are very proud of you.

Ah, well, life sucks sometimes, and it's a process. I think my kids are proud of me, and I'm very glad to know they will support me no matter what.

I'm quite sure I still have squalorish tendencies -- I guess I'm a recovering squaloror. I've managed to keep my new house, if not pristine, pretty much company-clean for a year and a half, and that's pretty good for me.

It helps that my house was brand new. I'm trying very hard to keep it up. The digital age has helped a bit also -- much less paper, more digital reading so much less compulsive buying of books.

Lottery, I wonder if recording some of those things and memories, both audio and video, would help your potential hoarder let go of the real things.

(((Violet))) My late father-in-law was a hoarder. Like Lottery's DH, he held on to grocery lists his ex-wife had written 30 years earlier. He died of a heart attack that may have been survivable had the paramedics been able to get into the house.

My DH has some of those tendencies, too. It's not as simple as organizing, it's a real obsession. He can't get rid of things, always thinks he'll find someone to give it to. So that leads to him hoarding. Naturally, he never does find someone for it (since it was garbage in the first place!) He has gone into pretty deep depressive stages when he discovers I've thrown out old envelopes that bills came in. He checks the garbage before he takes it out to ensure I haven't thrown something 'valuable' away.

I am the complete opposite, I keep what is necessary and dontate, repurpose or recycle what isn't. I'm hoping to join a master recycler course, that's how avid I am about getting rid of things! As a result, I've managed to keep our place neat and clean. But there are times when I hit my limit and have to do a major overhaul. That always, always results in a big fight between us, but eventually he concedes, I agree to keep certain things with conditions, and the cycle continues. It's sad, he never considered his father a hoarder ('My Dad had some good stuff!') but he thinks our next door neighbor is a hoarder (he is but not as bad as his Dad was).

It's tough, and i applaud you for the hard work you've accomplished.

Congrats! That is hard to admit and get past.

My dad and his sisters all grew up hard, his mom passed with the spanish flu (he was 50 when I was born) and left his dad with 3 kids under 5 all he had was booze, his belt/fists and a lot of guilt. Periodically they were swept away to an orphanage.

All of them had some level of hording and could see value in anything. And non would let anyone else toss stuff with out permission.

When it got bad at my parents place, I would have to bag the trash and take it home in my car to throw out or it would be put back or worse I would have to put it back. Used kleenex and all. Mom got used to it and started saving stuff too.

All of their friends had hoards as well, I think that is one of the hard things still, because they all want to give each other things rather than toss.

Right now, one of her friends has had a hard surgery and will not allow anyone in. She is competent or I would call the authorities, I am still considering it even though it would hurt mom to go behind her back.

I am very proud you!

Congrats to you violetwest for facing your demons and beating them back. It's never easy. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

Violet, your story is quite touching. I am sure many of us can point to a time in our lives when it would have been easy to give up and sink under whatever is overwhelming us. Instead, we reach down and find that inner strength to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps. Kudos to you.

My XH was one of those who had piles of stuff everywhere. When he finally moved out, it was up to me to get rid of his junk. I could not believe the stuff he hung onto. It felt so good to see it go!

My neighbors across the street are like that. They don't even live in the house now, although they do come by to cut the grass. They keep the front somewhat under control, but there is a rotten old car in the driveway. I've had glimpses of the inside and -- holy cow, what a mess.

There is one on the edge hereabouts .... we run our lives by our EBay store -- so he buys stuff and then sells it ..... but there is SO much stuff that has never been listed ... and so it is not sold .... and he gets upset if questioned about inventory or asked to clean up the garage .... or even work around the house ...so nothing ever changes ....

DH is a good man but harder and harder to deal with as he gets older .....

Violet,
Good for you for overcoming such a wrenching problem; it cannot have been easy. I am so glad you have your own home to enjoy and take care of!

Violet, so would you say that, for you, it was more about being depressed vs. being a hoarder? In other words, it wasn't that you had a "need" to keep things, but that the thought of dealing with endless stuff (which is always trying to creep into our lives) and cleaning, etc. snowballed into an overwhelming situation, becoming a vicious cycle?

I am really amazed that you pulled through it. How? How did you do it? You never know-- you may change (or save) someone's life who reads this. There are so many lurkers on this forum-- you can't even imagine! (I know because of when my blog was posted here.)

What tips do you have? I am not a hoarder/dislike collecting EXCEPT when it comes to my children's artwork. That is the one area that I really struggle with. None of it is organized, no dates or even names, etc. Just all in boxes. I can get rid of just about everything else . . . but since I don't take pics much or keep records of anything, it seems like just throwing their childhood away.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's not just about hoarding or depression, but about finding the strength to overcome a tremendous challenge.

I've been reading more stories about squalor and hoarding, and frankly, scaring the crap out of myself. What if I backslide as I age? I can't really tell if these conditions become worse with age, or if it's just that so many of these stories come from loved ones who have to deal with the consequences after someone has passed.

GW has really helped me think about this. I never knew there was a word for it -- of course I know what "squalor" meant, but never knew it was a "condition."

To be clear, again, my problem isn't hoarding--it's the propensity to "not see" filth around me, and to neglect things. I used to think I was just a slob--lazy and untrained, but now I'm not so sure. It is certainly related to, and a symptom of depression. I also think it's because I was (and am) a big hippie, and part of that movement was rejecting the overly sterile and neat world of the 1950s homemakers. Not excuses, just factors.

So, what happened to snap me out of it? In the moment, it was intervention. Someone (an neighbor or landlord) called CPS on me. An extremely low point in my life to say the least. The kids were loved and well cared for (relatively), but in fear of them being taken away from me, I sent them, then around 3 and 8 years old, to live with their father in another city. Without them, I was able to pull myself back together, get therapy, and medication. Eventually, I was able to reunite with my family, and continued to improve. The medication was a lifesaver.

Also helping was the fact that my ex husband became the primary caregiver for the kids. We lived close by, and I saw them all the time, and I contributed a lot to their lives, but I probably shouldn't have had kids. Alone is so much better for me! I'm glad I did though! But I'm not very nurturing, and carry a lot of guilt about it. But when I mention to my daughters I was never a very good mother, they look at me like I'm crazy. Maybe they don't remember! I let it go, and am just grateful.

In general, I've just grown up and out of it, and learned more coping strategies. I am no longer depressed, and am much more cognizant of my surroundings. But it's still a struggle -- such is life!

ETA: Anele: get yourself a color scanner, and scan all that artwork. Put it up on your tv as a slideshow.

{{!gwi}}

This post was edited by Violet.West on Wed, Aug 27, 14 at 11:22

"It's not just about hoarding or depression, but about finding the strength to overcome a tremendous challenge. "

So true! Thank you Violet for sharing your story and kudos to you for what you have overcome.

tina

That's a great story Violet. I have seen the squalor survivor website before, but forgot about it.

I fight squalor in my house too. Hoarding and disorganization are usually OCD behaviors. I got a book today that I hope will teach me some behavior modification so I can get past my OCD thinking and be able to deal with clutter better.

I suspect that despite your problems you and your ex loved your kids and they knew that. The other thing (being the adult child of an alcoholic that I am) is that although my father was a drinker he did quit when I was about 12-13.

Do the after affects of that childhood stay with me -yes they do BUT I do admire the strength and determination that it took for him to quit drinking and to stay sober for the rest of his life. As an adult I came to accept and to a certain extent admire the strength that that took. I choose to live under the positive aspects of my father rather than the negative.

Perhaps that is what your children do - None of us parents is perfect. If I were you I would live under the positive that you have created out of your life. I suspect that is what your children are doing.

We all have bad things happen in childhood, and in life. The trick is to be able to handle them and overcome the consequences. Lots of squalor is triggered not only by depression alone, but by life disasters -- illness, unemployment, death of a loved one. Those who are able to roll with the punches do a lot better in life. Unfortunately, that doesn't describe me very well!

I have good relationships with my children, and we love each other. I wonder though, as I continue to think about this problem, whether they have some squalorish tendencies themselves. I will have to talk to them about it, and make sure we can help each other if any of us start to slide.

Thanks for all your encouraging words!

I admire you for sharing your story. It's wonerful that you were able to recover, and that you are close to your children.

I realize that my late husband and I both had/have hoarder tendencies. He was a 'piler', while I am more organized, but I have difficulty letting go of anything that belonged to deceased loved ones. After more than three years I still have most of his stuff.

None of us knows how close we are to the brink--how much (or little) it would take for hoarding or squalor to take over. You mentioned aging--as people lose their mobility/eyesight/reasoning processes, falling into squalor is a definite hazard. Its something that we all need to be aware of, in older relatives, and in ourselves.

Stay happy. :)

My kids are now 24 and 26 and since they were 15 I have been extremely honest with them about what alcohol can do to a family and to the children of a family.

Do talk to them about it. It is a tough conversation to start, at least it was with me, but so worth it.

Momma Goose, I too have many things from my loved ones. But was able to place the most valuable memories in trunks for each one. Right now I am having a problem though with letting go of my son's things. And since he was always the family history kid, most of what is in the trunks are not understood by the rest of the family. I need to go through them with my daughter and share their significance to me. Although what is significant to me will most likely not be to another.

When mom passed a way there was so much to deal with. But my husband told me I had to make some decisions. And remember that a lot of her items would be loved in a different way for someone else. There was little I remembered as a child, too many changes in life. But the kids had specific memories of their own and I let them make their own memory trunks. It is never easy to do this, even letting go to others who loved them so much.

Letting go of "things" will be on your time, not anyone else. I have chosen to do what my heart lets me at this time and without a schedule on any of it. And I don't think either of us is hoarding.

(((technicolor))) Thank you.

BTW, I did manage to have the conversation with my oldest daughter. She said she didn't remember anything like that -- a blessing, or perhaps, just blocked it out?

But we talked about my "tendencies" and aging, etc. I asked her to promise me not to ever let me get that far down the road again. I don't ever want my kids to have to dig out my house after I'm gone.

Not recalling is a form of dissociation from an unbearable situation where the child has no control over the environment. Kids DO know how they are living & that it's not ok. The acid test? Can they have friends visit? Do they visit other kids homes? Do,they leave home early?

susandas: That's a pretty big assumption to make based on a forum thread. "Not recalling" could be the sign of a very compassionate daughter who doesn't want her mother, who has worked so hard to get better, to feel unnecessary guilt about her earlier struggles. "I don't remember that" often translates to "I don't dwell on that." If she doesn't want to cause her mom unnecessary/unhealthy levels of regret, we shouldn't either.

anele, I have the same struggle! Anything the kids have made reaches holy relic status with me. Taking photos and scanning the artwork, as someone else suggested above, has helped quite a bit, but I still have an awful lot of sterilite containers filled with old school work! I'm not sentimental about anything except that.

This is an amazing read. Violet (and others), I admire your strength in overcoming difficult past(s).

For those who are "hoarding" their children's art work, I do have a suggestion - I made a large "envelope" out of poster board (I guess it's not called oaktag anymore?) -- just stapled a couple of sheets together -- and then went through and saved one or two items from each school year. The rest was tossed and is not missed.

It's not the hoarding & keeping the 'holy relics' they are precious. I'm referring to the misery of children raised in squalor & I do speak from a period when I was 'out of control' & living in chaos...I also speak of a chaotic childhood & the "parentifield" child who assumes the role of carer in the void. Yes I'm certain there is an adult daughter who didn't and still doesn't hurt her mother. i make no assumptions, children remember with shame and feelings of living in an 'out of control' world. They understand mum's shame & regret . It doesn't alter the impact of chaos.

Your response is empathic & I get that. I have empathy for ALL members in a family who endure the chaos & social exclusion from living with dysfunction. Healing & real restoration rarely comes from family members not being given a voice due to political correctness. I am of the view that forums are open to diversity of thought opinion & experience. When we put anything into the public domain we need to be sufficiently robust to consider alternative views. We live in a democratic society, not a nanny state or a dictatorship. Thanks for taking the time to give me your feedback.

Violet what a heart felt honest account of you and your
family squalor/depression journey. There is literally no end to things that can sprout from the
side affects of depression. The one thing that really stands out for me in your
writings is how you “owned it”. I was a child of an extremely depressed environment.
It was hard for me and my siblings to overcome much of the psychological damage
as my mom would never validate there was ever a problem. Validation is so horribly
underestimated. If a parent chooses to stick to a story of meeting you after
school at the white picket fence with fresh baked cookies in front of your Ozzy
& Harriet house…well, let’s jut say it stagnates things a bit. As I grew
older and mom eventually got ALS I was able to separate the two in the form of one
being a fragile dying woman who did love me, not in a conventional way but it
was a love. My sister struggled or is struggling right up till the end and beyond
of mom’s passing. I know for a fact that if mom would have just “owned” what we
all went through there would have been forgiveness on my sisters end.

Your children are right to love you all the more. You are
good! You keep discussions open on what you felt your downfalls were as a
parent. Validation = forgiveness, love, support and understanding.

I am so very happy for you!

My grandmother had a very hard time letting things go. She grew up during the Depression (maybe that's not just economic) and was taught to save and re-purpose everything. When times got better, she still had that idea that something could still be used.

On the bright side....she could find an old coat, take it apart, cut down the pieces and make it into a lovely new coat for a child. She was so talented and could do so many wonderful things :)

She never got into the 'piling' problems, but her craft room often reached out and took over the dining room! She always had a fairly organized kitchen and plenty of space to sit in the front room. But, it was difficult for her to let go of things, when it came time to move to a retirement place.

One thing that seemed to help....we put all of her crafts, yarns, projects into boxes (organized) and got her a small storage unit. She did get a few things out and finish them, but we finally donated everything to a local charity/rummage sale.

She decided to do it and made many farm ladies VERY happy. They were the ones to go through everything for the sale....and found many yarns and other materials that were no longer made and were able to finish their own projects!

I wanted to say that Violet is very brave to even start this thread! We all know how devastating changes can impact ourselves and those we care about. With everything we've been through the last few years (and moving my mom into our home) it's more important than ever to LET GO OF STUFF that doesn't need to be here, anymore. But KEEP THE STUFF that we love and use.

Sorting and giving away (to Goodwill many times) is the best way I know to avoid the hoarder/clutter problem. And cleaning....it's not fun sometimes, but it's a wonderful way to feel happy about your space and enjoy life.

Depression seems to often come from that feeling of helplessness (and while I'm certainly no expert) I think taking control of your life....even if it's cleaning one corner of the room at a time.....helps us see that we CAN control our future and pushes that helplessness away and brings light back into our lives :)